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Fly on the Wall: Harvesting - Official discussion thread

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And there are more then a few of us who have been asking for something more then absolutely nothing since day one. I don't know what it takes for developers to get it through their thick heads.

People generally speaking don't like standing around doing nothing.

 

Indeed. And all the voices against it have pretty much been mere "noooooo! All I can think of are horrible examples of engaging non-combat stuff, so I am now annoyed by evrn thinking about it! So I don't have a good counter-argument, but please make non-combat activities things that won't annoy me even though I'm not interested in them to begin with."

 

Seriously... If it's so much trouble, just make all the resources magically pop out of the ground in hard-to-reach places. Then everyone can just 100% combat their way to resources. Or just skip the crafting, too. Everything's loot-dropped. Congratulations. Non-combat grind: reduced to 0. Maybe everyone would finally be happy.

 

I'd play that over actively channeled wait-harvesting any day. At least I could go DO something to procure the things I want. But no... People would complain about how it was just a grind to get items, then urge the devs to split it off into something that's inherently a grind, because that's somehow better.

 

When are people going to understand: nothing is 0% grind. The only question is, will it ever be not a grind based on how it's designed (like combat), or will it be 100% grind from the start?

 

The only difference between a grind and an acceptable gameplay activity is whether or not the player possesses the desire to perform the activity. The second you don't, it's a grind. The second you do, it isn't. Thus, even Crowfall combat will become grindy occasionally... When you've been online for 5 hours and you want to sign off, but you want to finish something you've started even more. The next day, no more grind. But that night? Grind.

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Indeed. And all the voices against it have pretty much been mere "noooooo! All I can think of are horrible examples of engaging non-combat stuff, so I am now annoyed by evrn thinking about it! So I don't have a good counter-argument, but please make non-combat activities things that won't annoy me even though I'm not interested in them to begin with."

 

Seriously... If it's so much trouble, just make all the resources magically pop out of the ground in hard-to-reach places. Then everyone can just 100% combat their way to resources. Or just skip the crafting, too. Everything's loot-dropped. Congratulations. Non-combat grind: reduced to 0. Maybe everyone would finally be happy.

 

I'd play that over actively channeled wait-harvesting any day. At least I could go DO something to procure the things I want. But no... People would complain about how it was just a grind to get items, then urge the devs to split it off into something that's inherently a grind, because that's somehow better.

 

When are people going to understand: nothing is 0% grind. The only question is, will it ever be not a grind based on how it's designed (like combat), or will it be 100% grind from the start?

 

The only difference between a grind and an acceptable gameplay activity is whether or not the player possesses the desire to perform the activity. The second you don't, it's a grind. The second you do, it isn't. Thus, even Crowfall combat will become grindy occasionally... When you've been online for 5 hours and you want to sign off, but you want to finish something you've started even more. The next day, no more grind. But that night? Grind.

Usually I think it's a good idea to refer people to non mmo games that have good gameplay in these respects, to demonstrate that it can be done, done well, and on a budget.  Cooking Mama is a excellent example of crafting done well.  And while harvesting is a little trickier, I think games like the Harvest Moon games, and even the new Stardue Valley show just how compelling good harvesting can be. (even if mechanically the act of individual harvesting is just as simple as a button press).

 

So it's not like if we wanted engaging crafting and harvesting in an MMO that we'd have to make it up out of whole cloth.  It's been done before, and done very well, just not in MMOs.  And on a fraction of the budget I might add.

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Usually I think it's a good idea to refer people to non mmo games that have good gameplay in these respects, to demonstrate that it can be done, done well, and on a budget.  Cooking Mama is a excellent example of crafting done well.  And while harvesting is a little trickier, I think games like the Harvest Moon games, and even the new Stardue Valley show just how compelling good harvesting can be. (even if mechanically the act of individual harvesting is just as simple as a button press).

 

So it's not like if we wanted engaging crafting and harvesting in an MMO that we'd have to make it up out of whole cloth.  It's been done before, and done very well, just not in MMOs.  And on a fraction of the budget I might add.

Interesting, i never thought of it in that way. Makes alot of sense. 

 

I am really looking forward to being able to get my hands on the harvesting and crafting so its less of a guessing game from the itty bitty information we are being fed.


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Hell, now that I thought about it for a couple of minutes more there are other Harvesting games that we all enjoy. Minecraft, Terraria, Starbound.

Even thou the act of mining is basic, it puts it in the context of spelunking, of digging deeper and deeper, with hazards and monsters to challenge you along the way.

Turning harvesting into and adventure.

 

I don't see why Crowfall, with it's Voxal system couldn't do likewise.  Instead of having a mine automatically generate materials, you first had to explore it like a randomly generated dungeon.  With monsters, traps and hazards. (like cave ins, flooding, gas leaks, fire.)  And the deeper you go, the rarer materials you can find.

So it becomes not just about finding and defending the mine, but being able to excavate it properly.   I'd happily go spelunking.

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With monsters, traps and hazards. (like cave ins, flooding, gas leaks, fire.)  And the deeper you go, the rarer materials you can find.

So it becomes not just about finding and defending the mine, but being able to excavate it properly.   I'd happily go spelunking.

 

This is almost exactly what Landmark offers. I suggest you try it for a little bit. I'm pretty sure you'll change your opinion about this.


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This is almost exactly what Landmark offers. I suggest you try it for a little bit. I'm pretty sure you'll change your opinion about this.

Don't see how that is an argument.  Having a good idea/mechanic and implementing it well, not the same thing.

From what I understand the developers of Landmark completely shat the bed, and just wasn't able to make the experience fun period.

That doesn't make their ideas bad, just that they were unable to implement them well for whatever reason.

 

And as my original point was we have seen games where spelunking in general does work, and is fun.  I mean I could point out any number of games where combat is straight up not fun, that doesn't make the idea that this game is doing combat somehow invalid just because somebody else failed.

 

What I can say unequivocally, is that the current model of gathering and crafting is not compelling or fun. (but then some people have fun cutting themselves, so what do I know)

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All I can think of are horrible examples of engaging non-combat stuff, so I am now annoyed by evrn thinking about it! So I don't have a good counter-argument, but please make non-combat activities things that won't annoy me even though I'm not interested in them to begin with."

 

 

I don't understand this... from what I read you simply don't want to craft, has it ever occured to you you could just skip the crafting and buy from crafters? I actually thought that was the point of having crafters, but clearly I was wrong (again)

 

Making crafting engaging will differentiate the ones that like doing it, giving others that don't like it a reason to seek them out, just like crafters will need fighters to protect them, which would sport that whole player interaction thing they have been spamming... Clearly I'm mad.


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I don't understand this... from what I read you simply don't want to craft, has it ever occured to you you could just skip the crafting and buy from crafters? I actually thought that was the point of having crafters, but clearly I was wrong (again)

 

Making crafting engaging will differentiate the ones that like doing it, giving others that don't like it a reason to seek them out, just like crafters will need fighters to protect them, which would sport that whole player interaction thing they have been spamming... Clearly I'm mad.

I can't speak for Lephys, but I fall into the camp of 'I'd love to do it, but only if it wasn't completely agony'.

Normally non combat activities don't interest me, specifically because they get the least amount of mechanical engagement of any feature.  For the same reason I don't like cutting myself.  It's painful to do.

As soon as it's fun I'll gobble that stuff right up.

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I can't speak for Lephys, but I fall into the camp of 'I'd love to do it, but only if it wasn't completely agony'.

Normally non combat activities don't interest me, specifically because they get the least amount of mechanical engagement of any feature.  For the same reason I don't like cutting myself.  It's painful to do.

As soon as it's fun I'll gobble that stuff right up.

I'm pretty sure there are groups you can join if you begin to enjoy cutting yourself.

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