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kensidian

Great Another Class Based System.

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ThomasB kind of addressed this indirectly here when talking about systems where, for instance, you created unique spells.

 

The biggest issue that resonates with me is about expectations on players to fill certain roles...

 

 

 

Then there's the social aspect where the quality of your spells will be judged by group mates who are letting you into a group and expect you to fulfill a specific role. The types of spells that are "the best" will circulate and while you might appreciate the spell you created, others will not. Your spell has a cool particle effect and AoE module instead of a single target damage with a 2 target cleave module. This does not fit what everyone knows to be best! You are berated and maybe kicked from the group.

 

You could easily substitute the word class in here for the word spell and it would be the same argument. Classes allow players to intrinsically communicate to one another what role they're capable of filling.

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Hey now! I enjoyed GW2 for a few days! I didn't like the instanced PvP stuff though.

The LT would enjoy GW2...


40 minutes ago, Andius said:

W/HoA were held up as like these mystical forces of highly skilled players with legendary theorycrafters chained to a desk in some deep dungeon holding all the arcane secrets we could use to win if only we knew them.

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I actually really like the idea of an Archetype (race/class combo). It's a unique take on the classic class system, but it solves a lot of issues with it as well. For example, Racial abilities can be included without being inherently 'unfair'. They will be, for all intents and purposes, simply another class ability.

 

 

You could easily substitute the word class in here for the word spell and it would be the same argument. Classes allow players to intrinsically communicate to one another what role they're capable of filling.

 

To play devil's advocate - why exactly do you need a strict system in a PvP game? It makes sense in a PvE game where there is an established order - but PvP by it's very nature is more fluid, and there's less requirements for specific roles (ie: The Trinity).

Edited by Teekey

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I think the reasoning for having classes is to still encourage teams.

 

I'd like to be a one man band too, but I can see that there will be more benefits to teaming.

 

Can I at least play the triangle or something?

 

I'm one of those who likes classes.  I like being given a role within a group and relying upon others to make up for my lack of offense or defense (depending on what I'm playing).  I always thought those types of systems gave more interesting types of encounters.

Edited by talfryn

Between dreams and reality.


Lantern Watch

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I'm on both sides of the fence here.

I love myself games like Guild Wars and Path of Exile, where you can make you own build and stand out from the crowd, yet still have general class outlines and lock you into the decisions that you make, where you end up as a matter of course that your great at one or two things, and crap at everything else.

So while you can make decisions, you can't be everything.

 

However I've seen this go south, in the case of GW2, where everyone was in essence a DPS with self healing, the only difference was in degree.

Dungeons were a bloody joke, and PvP devolved into zerg masses wailing on each other, as was a lot of PvE content.  No one had a role other then show up.

Since you only ever needed to worry about yourself, you never organized into anything more then a mass of players who only cared about themselves.  As a result strategy goes right out the window along with any degree of challenge what so ever.

 

The tighter the classes are, the more honed a challenging experience one can craft for them, as you know exactly what to expect from the players.

Which is why MMO's with Raiding typically have strict classes and roles.

So in turn it really depends on what core engagement your going for as to weather you want classes or not.

 

 

I doubt there is going to be raiding of any kind, but there is a PvP focus on skill, which in turn suggests dedicated roles, but with leeway so that a good player can get more out of the same pool of skills then another player.  But players would still have to work together in unison to accomplish larger goals, like taking over territory.

 

It won't have to be as strict classes as PvE themeparks would, but you should still have clear roles.  Hopefully more then just Healer, Tank, DPS.  Like Control, and Support, maybe Transportation, Scouting, Harassment, etc.

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You would think with the SWG background of some of the devs. That a class based system would be leaving newer MMO's. Instead they seem to be keeping with locking us into Alts to try different styles of combat. 

 

   I am really sick about this, I loved SWG, I love having my specific crafter to make my goods etc. I also loved changing skillsets when i wanted and being more then the same thing as everyone else or selecting a new character to level up to be competitive in PvP as we all know an alpha (or close to it) class.

 

Deeply saddened as this game sounds promising.

I'm sick of characters that can fill any role. Give me spec groups.

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I kind of like having an excuse to play an Alt. 

 

I used to also. I was quite offended when I started playing SWG and discovered I could only have 1 character per server. However I quickly learned to appreciate the ability to experience a variety of gameplay mechanics on a single character more than having a reason and/or ability to create alts.

 

This is also what I've really enjoyed about FFXIV. Having one character that I can interact with other players on no matter what role I'm filling currently fits a lot better than having to re-identify with each time I change.

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I'm sick of characters that can fill any role. Give me spec groups.

 

I can agree with this. In SWG even you couldn't build a character that filled all roles well. You could build a character that filled a specific role, or was decent at several. If you wanted to try a new role you'd need to respec which consisted of dropping skills and having to re-earn xp towards your new skill, basically de-leveling.

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I'm sick of characters that can fill any role. Give me spec groups.

 

It's kind of neat to for races to fill their niche, as well.

 

As much as I love Gnome Warriors...they make zero custard sense.

 

Now a Centaur Legionnaire? Perfect.


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I'm sick of characters that can fill any role. Give me spec groups.

 

My only concern regarding archetypes is if 1v1 combat will be both practical and fun. And ideally not completely imbalanced. I know 1v1 will not be the focus, but it should still be paid heavy attention to.

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When I think 1 vs 1 and classes I think rock, paper, scissors because it seems to always work out that way.

 

Ugh.

 

I'd much rather see a robust item system that allows you to specialize your armor against certain things.

 

For example: Against Plate armor, a Knight would want to use a Mace. Against Mail, a Sword. Archers could have similar specialization with arrow heads (bodkin, broad head, etc).

 

Rock, Paper, Scissor just gets boring.

Edited by Teekey

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I don't really understand the OP. SWG was class based. 100% class based. You had a skill tree that you could choose from, and you could multi-class, but it was still class based.

 

And for the folks that think people who don't want classes want to "be able to do everything" you're reading too much into it. We want interdependence. We still want limits. We want to have to make tough choices about what we do and don't put into our build. But we want them to be OUR choices. Not a pre-made build handed to us by someone else.

 

And, before you go off on disciplines and promotions and whatnot, I know. I get it. I'm fine with it. It isn't what I would have done, but it'll work. You are still limited in the choices you can make based on someone else's idea of what goes well with that, but I can deal with it. I just wanted to clear up some misconceptions about a "do it all" fallacy.


I'm in this for the Experience, not the XP.

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It limits your freedom in a 1v1 situation, but it opens up new avenues in gvg.

 

Having archetypes really isn't any different than being able to pick and choose with limits. You just have to pick and choose what you want to do before you hit create character. Based on dev history I would guess that there will be hybrid classes as well, you just want to as proficient in any skill as one that focuses on it.

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Yeah, it is different. I've played characters where my Primary skills were brewing, heavy armor, run and first aid. You're telling me I can do that with a template (archetype)? No, no I can't.

 

And, yes, I had a reason for that build. It wasn't just putting together the craziest crap I could come up with.


I'm in this for the Experience, not the XP.

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Yeah, it is different. I've played characters where my Primary skills were brewing, heavy armor, run and first aid. You're telling me I can do that with a template (archetype)? No, no I can't.

 

And, yes, I had a reason for that build. It wasn't just putting together the craziest crap I could come up with.

How do you know what skills would have been available if your game had been class based? The devs job is to balance the game preventing you from collecting an #easywin button. As long as brewing/heavy armor/run/first aid did not throw the class out of balance then there is a real possibility that that they would have been options.

Edited by affy

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And, yes, I had a reason for that build. It wasn't just putting together the craziest crap I could come up with.

 

Was that reason to be as useless as possible?


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