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kensidian

Great Another Class Based System.

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I'm on both sides of the fence here.

I love myself games like Guild Wars and Path of Exile, where you can make you own build and stand out from the crowd, yet still have general class outlines and lock you into the decisions that you make, where you end up as a matter of course that your great at one or two things, and crap at everything else.

So while you can make decisions, you can't be everything.

 

However I've seen this go south, in the case of GW2, where everyone was in essence a DPS with self healing, the only difference was in degree.

Dungeons were a bloody joke, and PvP devolved into zerg masses wailing on each other, as was a lot of PvE content.  No one had a role other then show up.

Since you only ever needed to worry about yourself, you never organized into anything more then a mass of players who only cared about themselves.  As a result strategy goes right out the window along with any degree of challenge what so ever.

 

The tighter the classes are, the more honed a challenging experience one can craft for them, as you know exactly what to expect from the players.

Which is why MMO's with Raiding typically have strict classes and roles.

So in turn it really depends on what core engagement your going for as to weather you want classes or not.

 

 

I doubt there is going to be raiding of any kind, but there is a PvP focus on skill, which in turn suggests dedicated roles, but with leeway so that a good player can get more out of the same pool of skills then another player.  But players would still have to work together in unison to accomplish larger goals, like taking over territory.

 

It won't have to be as strict classes as PvE themeparks would, but you should still have clear roles.  Hopefully more then just Healer, Tank, DPS.  Like Control, and Support, maybe Transportation, Scouting, Harassment, etc.

such a narrow minded perspective.


#CrowFallBata


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Well Todd already stated that every archetype will be capable of crafting. Hopefully, someone who wants to be really good at crafting will be able to promote to a specialized crafter role if desired.

 

Conversely, I'm confident every archetype (even the healers) will be able to train up some weapon skill to competency without wasting a promotion to do so. This is a PvP-centric game.

Edited by chancellor

I think the K-Mart of MMO's already exists!  And it ain't us!   :)

 

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Well Todd already stated that every archetype will be capable of crafting. Hopefully, someone who wants to be really good at crafting will be able to promote to a specialized crafter role if desired.

 

Conversely, I'm confident every archetype (even the healers) will be able to train up some weapon skill to competency without wasting a promotion to do so. This is a PvP-centric game ffs.

That makes no sense why should someone have to have a promotion class to be a better crafter?

Edited by phatcat09

#CrowFallBata


~Sweet Sensations~


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I also believe that having classes allows players to become known/renown/infamous/whatever. Being a jack of all trades just dilutes everything. Nobody will really garner a name for themselves in terms of skill, I think. I always loved in any PvP game making a name for myself or knowing certain players of certain classes you'd run into in the field and you'd think, "Oh poorly made socks, I actually have to *think* against this player."

 

Give me classes. Classless is too chaotic, imo, and generally ends up becoming everyone playing the same flavor of the week or a generalized mishmash of the best skill sets.

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I also believe that having classes allows players to become known/renown/infamous/whatever. Being a jack of all trades just dilutes everything. Nobody will really garner a name for themselves in terms of skill, I think. I always loved in any PvP game making a name for myself or knowing certain players of certain classes you'd run into in the field and you'd think, "Oh ****, I actually have to *think* against this player."

 

Give me classes. Classless is too chaotic, imo, and generally ends up becoming everyone playing the same flavor of the week or a generalized mishmash of the best skill sets.

 

I agree. This, imo, is what made Darkfall dreadful. Diablo 3, another great example of this. Maybe this is popular with most mainstreamers, but please, for the love of God don't let people instantly retrain characters or allow them to train anything and everything they want. Also ideally, there should be weaknesses and strengths to every path.


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Personally I am sick of 'action combat' mmo games where I pick up a weapon and my skills change or I can level other classes to be able to perform any role in the game. Active block mechanics and evade or roll mechanics are equally disliked by me but then maybe that comes from my love of older hard core games like EQ1, DAOC (vanilla) and Vanguard.

 

Personally I like having 'tanks, healers and DPS. I'm sure some people out there don't agree - that's fine but knowing that what my characters role is and getting good at it is one of the best parts of mmos. Top tanks are sought after, top healers likewise. DPS is harder because with recent mmos a muppet could play most dps classes and not fail. Interesting interrupt mechanics and encounters that make dps have to do more than play their rotation is the key to making some dps stand out more than others. 

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Personally I am sick of 'action combat' mmo games where I pick up a weapon and my skills change or I can level other classes to be able to perform any role in the game. Active block mechanics and evade or roll mechanics are equally disliked by me but then maybe that comes from my love of older hard core games like EQ1, DAOC (vanilla) and Vanguard.

 

I love EverQuest as much as anyone, and played it for 5~ years. But the combat in that game was like watching paint dry. I honestly hope to never see that style combat ever return. Even World of Warcraft with 50 abilities per class is better.


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Your primary source of Crowfall news, guides, and information.

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Personally I am sick of 'action combat' mmo games where I pick up a weapon and my skills change or I can level other classes to be able to perform any role in the game. Active block mechanics and evade or roll mechanics are equally disliked by me but then maybe that comes from my love of older hard core games like EQ1, DAOC (vanilla) and Vanguard.

 

Personally I like having 'tanks, healers and DPS. I'm sure some people out there don't agree - that's fine but knowing that what my characters role is and getting good at it is one of the best parts of mmos. Top tanks are sought after, top healers likewise. DPS is harder because with recent mmos a muppet could play most dps classes and not fail. Interesting interrupt mechanics and encounters that make dps have to do more than play their rotation is the key to making some dps stand out more than others. 

 

Can't say I agree with you there. Skill based action combat is the only route to take if they really want this game to be 'the better player(s) win', at least in my opinion. I did read on the r/crowfall subreddit about how people actually enjoyed Wildstar's combat. Ugh, awful, terrible, bad combat was everything that game was. Overuse of telegraphs, no "feeling" ie. feedback that you HIT something, and generally not smooth at all. Which is funny because everyone poorly made sockss on TERA for being 'clunky', but imo, it really isn't. Is it a bit clunky and static at the lower levels? Definitely. Your gear is terrible. However, as you progress through the game, increasing attack speed, etc, the game opens up quite a lot.

 

I'd be ok with combat like TERA without a hesitation. 

 

If someone can actually tell me WHY 'free moving' while spamming skills is better than animation locks, I'd love to hear it. I'm a huge proponent of NO GCD (I *hate* GCD) and actually making the developers think about cooldowns and ANIMATIONS where you simple couldn't use a skill within that animation. We've all played a PvP game where you can just run around, jump and spam skills but I don't see the 'thought' behind it. Seems lazy to me on the dev side. 

 

However, to be fair, I'd be ok with any form of combat really. It is a MMORPG after all. I just hope they somehow develop it to be 'the better player always wins.'

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I also believe that having classes allows players to become known/renown/infamous/whatever. Being a jack of all trades just dilutes everything. Nobody will really garner a name for themselves in terms of skill, I think. I always loved in any PvP game making a name for myself or knowing certain players of certain classes you'd run into in the field and you'd think, "Oh ****, I actually have to *think* against this player."

 

Give me classes. Classless is too chaotic, imo, and generally ends up becoming everyone playing the same flavor of the week or a generalized mishmash of the best skill sets.

 

See, this is the same mistake many people are making. Having skill based instead of class-based does not make you a "jack of all trades". You still have a limit to how many you can select. You can CHOOSE to be a jack of all trades, but, as the rest of the saying goes, a master of none. But if you CHOOSE to specialize in something you can specialize in whatever you want to be.

 

It's not about I-win or doing everything. Open your minds people. It's very narrow in here.


I'm in this for the Experience, not the XP.

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I'm in complete disagreement with the OP on this one.  Some games with class systems limit your ability to try out different playstyles because the classes are designed for one thing and one thing only.  We call those games garbage and chuck them out the window.  I've already explained how Shadowbane's class system was diverse and allowed for several different playstyles depending on how you built your character and what skills you chose to train.  Since I don't feel like copy/pasting or quoting, here you go, for those of you who feel like reading: http://community.crowfall.com/index.php?/topic/1307-dont-minmax-the-races-with-dump-stats/page-2  A class system, when done right, allows for plenty of freedom as well as better control of the balance of the game.  And the Crowfall devs certainly know how to do it right.  As I've said before, let's just wait and see what they have in store before we go assaulting churches and burning women. 

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Lol...few days....that lasted longer than expected :)

I thought the whole story stuff was cool. The way they presented it. However, I know this from a lot of my clases... cutscenes = worst way to tell story. Pulls you out of the environment, that immersion you had.

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well I will attack everyone!!

 

Here is another thread from another whiney B---ch

who hasn't spent a dime on the game.

hasn't played a second of it

and don't know the end product...period.

and is utterly upset that the devs didn't custom tailor the MMO to their liking.

there are a cpl threads a day of some snotty entitled jackwaggon upset that this game isn't exactly how they ordered it...as if they are flipping the bill for development.

 

well boo friggen who!!

 

"i don't want classes....I wanna be everything at anytime while I frolic through the daisys kissing puppies...and the devs made classes...whaaaa!!!"

 

bunch of self important whiners...get over yourselves!

 

 

jeez my list of names of people I need to chain pk and corpse camp til they quit is getting longer by the day.

Edited by hillbilly

Know me and fear me. My embrace is for all and is patient but sure. The dead can always find you. My hand is everywhere - there is no door I cannot pass, nor guardian who can withstand me.

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That makes no sense why should someone have to have a promotion class to be a better crafter?

Because the archetype is like your bachelor's degree, making the promotion class your Master's degree.

You buy more and related skills when you "promote" yourself. The promotion makes you better overall and specialized in that area.


I think the K-Mart of MMO's already exists!  And it ain't us!   :)

 

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This argument is moot. It doesn't matter if the game is class based, or classless; someone will plug all the numbers into a computer and find the best build, and everyone else will copy it. Then the devs will come along with a nerf bat, and there will be a new build and everyone will copy that one. Rinse and repeat.

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However I've seen this go south, in the case of GW2, where everyone was in essence a DPS with self healing, the only difference was in degree.

Dungeons were a bloody joke, and PvP devolved into zerg masses wailing on each other, as was a lot of PvE content.  No one had a role other then show up.

Since you only ever needed to worry about yourself, you never organized into anything more then a mass of players who only cared about themselves.  As a result strategy goes right out the window along with any degree of challenge what so ever.

 

When someone says this, it shows me they don't know what they are talking about. Generally because they either haven't actually played the game and are just spouting what other people say or they didn't play in a top end guild. High end play revolves making builds that mesh well together and using fields layed down by friendlies efficiently. Though I am not saying GW2 doesn't have major flaws when it comes to content design, but the classes and combat aspects surrounding them are well designed outside of some balance issues. This shines in WvW when a group of 5 people can take down a zerg of 25.

Edited by frozenshadow

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This appears to suit my preferences just fine. I'm very interested in the combinations you can make at character creation to specialize your character for whatever you planned on doing. The whole "trait" system just looks neat to me. 


Winter is coming. 

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I thought the whole story stuff was cool. The way they presented it. However, I know this from a lot of my clases... cutscenes = worst way to tell story. Pulls you out of the environment, that immersion you had.

I personally much prefer cut scenes then text. 

 

I feel that it takes you to a lvl of immersion you cant reach with just text.

Edited by vVe

Community Moderator - http://killonsight.info/

The Dark Forest beckons...

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Because the archetype is like your bachelor's degree, making the promotion class your Master's degree.

You buy more and related skills when you "promote" yourself. The promotion makes you better overall and specialized in that area.

This sounds horrifying. I have to specialize into being a crafter? I have to sacrifice the ability to enjoy combat at its fullest just to enjoy crafting at it's fullest?

 

This kind of exclusivity sounds unbelievably frustrating. What is this obsession with hyper-specialization? 

 

 

I'm confused as to why you are choosing to personally attack someone...because his views differ from yours? Please respect each other's opinions.

Clearly you don't understand what a personal attack is. It is my opinion that his perspective is narrow minded, I didn't beat into him that he was narrow minded it was a very plain statement, but oh no how dare I believe that someone's view point is too narrow and tell them so! How malignant a comment to make. The next time I think someone's view point is too small I'll be sure not to tell them on the public forum for fear of feelings being hurt by proxy.

Edited by phatcat09

#CrowFallBata


~Sweet Sensations~


puppy punch Count: 28

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@op pigeon hole mindset comparing other games class base system and immediately drawing comparison. lets wait for more info from dev before drawing such conclusions, we might get surprise, cuz bear in mind the game is focus towards player vs player interaction, and it would be nice to see how the class system fits in and make the game fun and challenging for single to group interactions.

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