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Duelist powers and UI - Official discussion thread

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You are just seeing the first stealth archetype and generalizing the entire mechanic. THATS shameful.

It's not a generalization to state specific skills that the archetype has and then say its everything you hate about stealth rolled into one class.  Generalizing it would have been saying I hate everything about the archetype because it has stealth.  Lets not shame people for stating their thoughts while including detail about the facts.

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Anyone up for a guinea pig musketeer legion? Or even a kingdom?

:D

I can imagine how hilarious if someone build a kingdom with a guinea pig and sit on his throne with crown and red cape.  

All for one and one for...

 

Is that Cheese I smell?

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Indeed, I'd still like the ability to dig underground via voxel destruction. It doesn't have to be an in-combat ability, perhaps a small radius destruction around the Duelist when it begins and ends a burrow [creating a small crater where they go in and come out from]. This way in combat it doesn't make much difference, but out of combat it can be utilized for mass tunneling. This, of course, requires truly destructible terrain.

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It's not a generalization to state specific skills that the archetype has and then say its everything you hate about stealth rolled into one class.  Generalizing it would have been saying I hate everything about the archetype because it has stealth.  Lets not shame people for stating their thoughts while including detail about the facts.

 

He was refer specifically to the stealth mechanic quoting a few of the skills. He is generalizing stealth based on a single archetype.


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Depends, they might also make scout comes with a ability to expose them like how shadowbane did. Maybe even anti stealth trap/skill, good stealth skill carry the pvp to a strategy level from a street fight. The hide and seek in SB is alot of fun and balanced while GW2 screwed the wvw so bad like an enlarged street fight. we shall see, but I doubt that they would ever screw this as they had a huge success in SB's stealth system.

 

How long did you play Shadowbane? Scouts and Thieves pushed everyone else out of solo roaming PvP because you couldn't get away from them and you couldn't catch them if they wanted to escape. Relying on one class to spot stealthed enemies for the other 21 was a terrible design. It can be forgiven because it was made in an era where stealth mechanics hadn't been fleshed out, but it certainly isn't something that should be heralded as anything close to an ideal model for future games.


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Yes that would be one solution,

 

But what I was intimating was that In Siege Perilous, the walls are already warded with magical properties, that ignore huge boulders slung from great big ol' siege engines, that require time and resources to build. Should not that same magical protection stop mice?

 

When there is an investment to build stuff like siege engines and castle walls, but a stealth archetype with a one button press can bypass that hard work, kinda makes traditional siege engines noncompetitive in terms of price and time, and risk/reward. One or two infiltrators sounds cool, but 50 that can respawn and swarm repeatedly not so much.

 

I'm sure there is something ArtCraft has planned to balance this. 

According what i have experienced in SB, there were flying+stealth class in the game and there were classes can make entire team invisible+ apply flying buff. However, this type of team can only act as a special squad since the respawn point was way too far from the target. You need to run for 20mins if you died at somewhere far from whoever can use rec. Besides, Back in that time, city builder can hire NPC archer to guard a specific place. Usually a city fight would be 50-200max player on each team, if you invest 50 people into duelist, then the team will be wiped easily. No need to worry too much the war mechanism in this game, since their team gave SB pretty much the best war mechanism among all MMO.

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How long did you play Shadowbane? Scouts and Thieves pushed everyone else out of solo roaming PvP because you couldn't get away from them and you couldn't catch them if they wanted to escape. Relying on one class to spot stealthed enemies for the other 21 was a terrible design. It can be forgiven because it was made in an era where stealth mechanics hadn't been fleshed out, but it certainly isn't something that should be heralded as anything close to an ideal model for future games.

hmm, had played SB for quite a few years actually. Maybe I enjoyed the hide and seek because I was a scout myself lol. It really depends on how do you see the pvp in mmo, SB was never a good game for solo roaming.

To be honest, i couldn't find a better stealth mechanism in other MMO, they were either made the stealth guy become immortal or useless.

Also crowfall dev team said they tend to make it like war game rather than an enlarged 1v1 duelling, so I guess you have to rely on each other? Some game seeks for balance between every individuals and some game seek for balance of functionalities for each classes in group. It's like a chess game, pawn maybe the weakest but it turns into queen if you reach the bottom line and some of them could never handle a duel. 

 

Have you ever play EvE? It's a bit similar to this case in terms of stealth + anti stealth mechanism. They never seek for balance between ships as they are built to fit into different position, the entire game is built with unfairness between individuals yet it found its balance between factions. 

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Unity terrain is notoriously quick'n'easy, but remarkably obnoxious to punch holes through.  Since day 1 of pre-alpha, it appeared that parcels were out-of-the-box terrain, so I suppose I already gave up on the notion of voxel-based digging.

 

I guess going off the beaten path was too expensive.


Nazdar

Proud member of The Hunger

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do u have any additional $$$ to have mandy patinkin make guinea sounds for each action ur duelist peforms

 

i hope that u do

 

u really gotta strive for authenticity here imo


The most important thing is to enjoy your life - to be happy - it's all that matters. - Audrey Hepburn “:♡.•♬✧⁽⁽ଘ( ˊᵕˋ )ଓ⁾⁾*+:•*∴
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hmm, had played SB for quite a few years actually. Maybe I enjoyed the hide and seek because I was a scout myself lol. It really depends on how do you see the pvp in mmo, SB was never a good game for solo roaming.

To be honest, i couldn't find a better stealth mechanism in other MMO, they were either made the stealth guy become immortal or useless.

Also crowfall dev team said they tend to make it like war game rather than an enlarged 1v1 duelling, so I guess you have to rely on each other? Some game seeks for balance between every individuals and some game seek for balance of functionalities for each classes in group. It's like a chess game, pawn maybe the weakest but it turns into queen if you reach the bottom line and some of them could never handle a duel. 

 

Have you ever play EvE? It's a bit similar to this case in terms of stealth + anti stealth mechanism. They never seek for balance between ships as they are built to fit into different position, the entire game is built with unfairness between individuals yet it found its balance between factions. 

 

In Eve cloaked ships have tons of penalties. You need to give up a high slot (these are weapon slots for you non-Eve players) for a cloaking device that eats CPU, move 75/90% more slowly, suffer a large penalty to scan resolution plus sensor recalibration delay making it impossible to jump someone without warning, can't cloak near enemies, can't cloak while targeted, decloak when coming within 2k of an object or ship, can't reactivate cloak for 30 seconds after leaving cloak, and probably some more that I'm forgetting off the top of my head. 


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In Eve cloaked ships have tons of penalties. You need to give up a high slot (these are weapon slots for you non-Eve players) for a cloaking device that eats CPU, move 75/90% more slowly, suffer a large penalty to scan resolution plus sensor recalibration delay making it impossible to jump someone without warning, can't cloak near enemies, can't cloak while targeted, decloak when coming within 2k of an object or ship, can't reactivate cloak for 30 seconds after leaving cloak, and probably some more that I'm forgetting off the top of my head. 

Yeah, i remember that. I think that would happen on other stealth type archetypes too. SB had some similar penalities like movement limitation, exposure if attack, stealth reveal skill, low dps/health, etc.

the SB's design is kind of encourage you to either start with a rogue type classes or hang in a group while levelling, on the other hand, mage/warrior were so powerful in city war.

 

And remember the levelling curve in SB is so short that you can literally reach max level in 1day and so you can adjust your strategy quickly.

 

I guess it's more like to let you make your own decision and pick the right starter archetypes rather than making every archetype fits into most situations.  

 

If you wonder how does a bad stealth mechanism looks like, try GW2. The roaming thieves in wvw have no counter at all, even thief couldn't do that.

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Nice work ACE. When your work makes skeptics into believers you are doing it right.

 

 

Also, FWIW, PFFT stealther class is OP as ALWAYS! PFFT!  :D

Edited by tierless

I role play a wordsmith.

 

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