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McTan

Race Restricted Rp Guilds Should Be Reasonably Viable

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I hope this post focuses a conversation on the relative merits of letting all races have adequate ways to fill all game roles.  I think this is an appropriate time to have the conversation, because certain things in the information drops may be hinting toward design decisions, but since they have not been announced, those decisions might be subject to discussion.  I place this in the suggestion box because it is speculation off of what we know combined with my own gaming philosophy.  I fully realize that future information drops may render this discussion pointless, but I do not think that information has been shared yet.

 

My gaming philosophy is fairly straight-forward:

 

1) Players should be free to create their role in the game, after certain few systems are in place.  These systems are the very broad decisions of focus:  PvP vs. PvE, how players progress, themepark vs. sandbox issues.  I love all of the broad decisions of focus Crowfall appears to have, and that’s why I’m here.

2) All players min/max in some way.  Most players min/max in different ways.  Some players want to create the best possible class for solo PKing.  Some players want to find the best support class to play for a five person group.  Some players want to be the top blacksmith in the game.  Some players want to create the best RP environment they can.  All of these are valid playstyles, in my opinion.

 

My guild likes to play as all-dwarf.  Why?  We find it fun and are stubborn.  We fully appreciate that it’s not for everyone.

 

The following are my hopes for Crowfall.  If they do not align with developers’ visions, great, Crowfall is their game.  I think most players will agree that although we might be able to infer some of the interaction between races and the game, there is still a ton left to speculation.  This post is not meant to be a threat nor a temper tantrum, just one player’s expression of hopes for this game.

 

1) All races should have access to all archetype roles.  I reference the (Centaur) Legionnaire label of Melee DPS.  In SB, our guild was hamstrung by (1) the lack of rogues and (2) the lack of spell damage diversity.

2) If all races do not have access to all archetype roles, the promotion system should make all roles viable for all races.  I reference “One in the game, you must raise your skills to qualify for a Promotion class.  This allows you to differentiate yourself (pretty dramatically from your base Archetype” from the FAQ. 

 

Cheers!

Edited by mctan

Mic MWH, Member of Mithril Warhammers since 2003,


Hammers High! http://www.mithrilwarhammers.com

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A one race guild needs to be able to fit the lore and universe of the game.  Saying my guild likes to play as an all dwarf guild and then trying to ham-fist it into a new game where that might not fit the world just doesn't make any sense.

 

Imho, the developers shouldn't be designing around the concept of single race guilds if that does not fit the game they are making.  It's possible the Centaurs are a very warrior type race, where magic has no place.  So if that's the case, and for example you are an all Centaur guild, you should expect a guild full of warrior type characters, with very little in the way of mages.

 

My order of preference...

 

Gameplay>Lore>appeasing RP'ers

 

That said, I hope the gameplay and lore work out for your dwarf guild in Crowfall, but if it doesn't, well that would be ok too, but I'll try to be sad for you guys if you have to be an all crafter guild or something.

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A one race guild needs to be able to fit the lore and universe of the game.  Saying my guild likes to play as an all dwarf guild and then trying to ham-fist it into a new game where that might not fit the world just doesn't make any sense.

 

Imho, the developers shouldn't be designing around the concept of single race guilds if that does not fit the game they are making.  It's possible the Centaurs are a very warrior type race, where magic has no place.  So if that's the case, and for example you are an all Centaur guild, you should expect a guild full of warrior type characters, with very little in the way of mages.

 

My order of preference...

 

Gameplay>Lore>appeasing RP'ers

 

That said, I hope the gameplay and lore work out for your dwarf guild in Crowfall, but if it doesn't, well that would be ok too, but I'll try to be sad for you guys if you have to be an all crafter guild or something.

 

Good points but should ARAC guilds be rewarded more so over guilds operating within the lore of the game ? I guess I just never understood all the time and resources spent creating the lore for a mmorpg yet none of the game mechanics reinforced the lore. What good is the lore, the back story that binds the world created to the gameplay, if it is simple ignored ?  Shadowbane moved the needle with the loreplay server and in particular the loreplay server charters I felt.

 

I dont think anyone here is seeking an advantage for lore based guilds and players but in no way should they be punished or at a disadvantage for existing within the paradigm of the lore of the world they play in. 


Hammers High !!  Master Brewer of the Dwarven Hold Mithril Warhammers

 

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A one race guild needs to be able to fit the lore and universe of the game.  Saying my guild likes to play as an all dwarf guild and then trying to ham-fist it into a new game where that might not fit the world just doesn't make any sense.

 

Imho, the developers shouldn't be designing around the concept of single race guilds if that does not fit the game they are making.  It's possible the Centaurs are a very warrior type race, where magic has no place.  So if that's the case, and for example you are an all Centaur guild, you should expect a guild full of warrior type characters, with very little in the way of mages.

 

My order of preference...

 

Gameplay>Lore>appeasing RP'ers

 

That said, I hope the gameplay and lore work out for your dwarf guild in Crowfall, but if it doesn't, well that would be ok too, but I'll try to be sad for you guys if you have to be an all crafter guild or something.

 

I totally agree with you and am not trying to hamfist it.  I only brought it up now because it hasn't been confirmed or denied.  When that happens, I won't make any overtures about how I am disappointed or happy.  I do agree with Barab's point about ARAC not fitting gameplay or lore, but being rampant because it is always the best.


Mic MWH, Member of Mithril Warhammers since 2003,


Hammers High! http://www.mithrilwarhammers.com

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Ok got it.  I think lore based guilds are fine and absolutely should be viable, if it's viable in the lore and how it's viable in the lore.  If a certain race is extremely effective in combat because they field massive numbers, than in game a guild with nothing but that race and is all a zerg should be competitive.

 

Beyond that, I'm going to step out of this thread now even though I find it an interesting topic and I think barab makes a good point, but I don't want to debate that point outside of the lore of Crowfall...which we don't have enough of yet to talk about.  Someone will need to bring this topic up again once we know all the races, classes, and background lore.  At that point, I'd be interested in discussing what would work and what wouldn't with Crowfall's lore.

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Ok got it.  I think lore based guilds are fine and absolutely should be viable, if it's viable in the lore and how it's viable in the lore.  If a certain race is extremely effective in combat because they field massive numbers, than in game a guild with nothing but that race and is all a zerg should be competitive.

 

Beyond that, I'm going to step out of this thread now even though I find it an interesting topic and I think barab makes a good point, but I don't want to debate that point outside of the lore of Crowfall...which we don't have enough of yet to talk about.  Someone will need to bring this topic up again once we know all the races, classes, and background lore.  At that point, I'd be interested in discussing what would work and what wouldn't with Crowfall's lore.

I can give an example where just having the lore failed and that was SB. Had great Lore and they even had this thing called the guild charter that was supposed to fit the lore, ie the Centaur Guild Charter was supposed to be a Centuar only guild. Due to budget constraints, time and other issues it wasn't enforced when game launched. So if you made a Guild with the Centaur Charter you could have characters in your guild that lore wise were the mortal enemies of the Centuars. Then the made things worse by introducing new races and classes in the 2 expansions and only did balancing based on every guild having access to any race and any class. Years down the road they finally make a Lore enforced server where the Characters in the guild had to match the Guild charter. They knew there would be problems that needed to be addressed and they did a test run first. Turned out they underestimated they problems because the Charters were way unbalanced and they tried to balance it but didn't succeed 100%, however it was a blast playing the live version of the Lore server.

 

Now having wrote all that I don't see the devs here repeating that mistake. If J. Todd is going with some type of Lore setup. and their is good evidence so far he is, he has the past to learn from and he has stated that Crowfall is to be the game he imagined before he made Shadowbane, So hopefully we will get to see what budget problems and hardware of 2001-3 stopped us from seeing then.

Edited by gauis

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Basic Mechanics and Balance trump anything especially Lore.  Unlike my friends here, I hope to "hamfist" this point across. Racial restrictions are stupid and they end up handicapping the players that actually give two poops about Lore.

 

Gauis point above is why this needs to be addressed early.  I loved Shadowbane, but mechanically it was the biggest and most unbalanced piece of crap that was ever coded. What made it fun despite of all the hilariously bad design was the Open PVP and player ownership.  If the devs can keep those aspects and correct the mistakes of the spiritual predecessor then we are well on our way.  That being said - the archetype slaving race/class/build is a pretty epic facepalm for this shadowbane vet.


The Mithril Warhammers

Hammers High!

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it was called Lore server

 

and I remember a CB bane when conman stormed out of his city with 100 angry dwarves

 

Lots of red drakescale and pointy sticks and holy dmg....it was nasty


Know me and fear me. My embrace is for all and is patient but sure. The dead can always find you. My hand is everywhere - there is no door I cannot pass, nor guardian who can withstand me.

694a6f04-03a1-4af3-8e11-ddd1baa87348.jpg

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Would be amazing to see an actual Legion of Legionaires, leading the charge in a siege.

You know, it might be viable! Legionaire is a base Archetype, and will have the option to promote to a variety of different Promotion Classes and apply a number of different disciplines which further differentiate the character. Perhaps the Legionaire will be able to change its overall role through one of these Promotion Classes, taking on Support, Tank, or Ranged DPS characteristics?


Shadowbane - House Avari/Hy'shen
"Gimp elves get good elves killed." - Belina

Avari Discord - https://discord.gg/Bch24PV

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