Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
Quurk

Not sure how I feel about Crowfall

Recommended Posts

I think if ACE doesn't find a good way to have players develop some sort of meaningful bond with their characters it is going to change the nature of the game completely in a bad way.

 

If people aren't attached to their characters because of the crow and vessel system, and campaigns reset so there isn't any real permanence in that regard, and training is all passive so it doesn't require any active or memorable effort, the overall game experience is probably going to be closer to logging in to play a game of league of legends or overwatch, than similar to something like the 1st generation mmorpgs or even a vanilla WoW level of character attachment.

 

I agree. I think that Crows & Vessels needs to be tested - or perhaps alternatives need to be tested on particular CWs, such as single archetype CWs where vessels get damaged, but not destroyed - so you only ever have one body, but it needs to be maintained to function optimally. 

 

I also think that we should be able to set vessel appearance by Character Name at an account or CW level - so if I put on another Forgemaster I can see it as just upgrading/downgrading rather than switching.

 

As for between some crow-level attachment, I'm not concerned.  That would be like needing some level of unifying connection between alts. So, ACE should focus on how to make the death/vessel mechanics psychologically similar to dying/respawning in other games. 

 

At the end of the day, a great deal of the emotional/mental labor falls to individual players in ways similar to the Lore discussions, but ACE can do some testing of different things and get feedback from players.


Mic MWH, Member of Mithril Warhammers since 2003,


Hammers High! http://www.mithrilwarhammers.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think if ACE doesn't find a good way to have players develop some sort of meaningful bond with their characters it is going to change the nature of the game completely in a bad way.

 

If people aren't attached to their characters because of the crow and vessel system, and campaigns reset so there isn't any real permanence in that regard, and training is all passive so it doesn't require any active or memorable effort, the overall game experience is probably going to be closer to logging in to play a game of league of legends or overwatch, than similar to something like the 1st generation mmorpgs or even a vanilla WoW level of character attachment.

 

What makes you believe that they are going for 1st gen mmo or whatever vs what is massively popular today?

 

As you yourself like to say, they need to appeal to the modern gamer.

 

Names/Tags are about as deep as many games go and even then, some allow one to change them.

 

I see CF as more of a middle ground between lobby games and the more rpg experience. Although much of the design falls heavily into the shallow lobby experience, which I'm looking forward to.

 

While I'm sure plenty will strive to be the best X and mainly/only play it, the design seems to strongly encourage not limiting oneself and adapting. The again, I'm not a massive RPG/Lore fan and play these games to win and have a good time, not worry about my gear matching or what hairstyle I have at the moment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

RP-wise, since the Crows have no former knowledge of their previous lives, they wouldn't have a steadfast allegiance to any particular god. 

This is so lame... how do we even know which guild we fight for when we switch vessels?


KjUVOZg.png


Guild Leader/ High Elder

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What makes you believe that they are going for 1st gen mmo or whatever vs what is massively popular today?

 

As you yourself like to say, they need to appeal to the modern gamer.

 

Names/Tags are about as deep as many games go and even then, some allow one to change them.

 

I see CF as more of a middle ground between lobby games and the more rpg experience. Although much of the design falls heavily into the shallow lobby experience, which I'm looking forward to.

 

While I'm sure plenty will strive to be the best X and mainly/only play it, the design seems to strongly encourage not limiting oneself and adapting. The again, I'm not a massive RPG/Lore fan and play these games to win and have a good time, not worry about my gear matching or what hairstyle I have at the moment.

 

I would argue that Crowfall needs to urgently seperate itself out from the flood of MoBAs that have popped up in the past few years.

 

Literally dozens of free-to-play games can be found that offer the bells and whistles for instant gratification in arena combat.

 

I myself play Overwatch for that kind of thing. I don't need, or want - or expect Crowfall to simply be another arena fighter. I bought Overwatch for 40 dollars but I'm into Crowfall for 5 to 600 precisely because it promises so much more.

 

The clue is to diversify... it is exactly because of offering continuity and extended gameplay options - and a level of persistence beyond what we find in the market today, that Crowfall has a chance to set itself apart from the rest of the field.

 

A rinse-repeat formula will significantly diminish its appeal.

 

An example I can give is Overwatch - which is shallow as hell but oh Crackers did they work out some of the lore and backstory. I love Tracer to bits: One of the strongest characters (and rolemodels) I ever found in a computer game. I play her excusively PRECISELY becuase I got emotionally invested in her.

 

Why I'm into Crowfall: Because I have a chance to build a character to relate to at that level and then follow them through their experiences in a vibrant ever changing universe..

Edited by Deloria

www.CrowfallRP.com


Disclaimer: My RP with you might become a public story: https://soundcloud.com/shiv-mahon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What makes you believe that they are going for 1st gen mmo or whatever vs what is massively popular today?

 

As you yourself like to say, they need to appeal to the modern gamer.

 

Names/Tags are about as deep as many games go and even then, some allow one to change them.

 

I see CF as more of a middle ground between lobby games and the more rpg experience. Although much of the design falls heavily into the shallow lobby experience, which I'm looking forward to.

 

While I'm sure plenty will strive to be the best X and mainly/only play it, the design seems to strongly encourage not limiting oneself and adapting. The again, I'm not a massive RPG/Lore fan and play these games to win and have a good time, not worry about my gear matching or what hairstyle I have at the moment.

Did I say they were going for one or the other?  They themselves have said they want to take the good things from the past and merge them with the innovation and breakthroughs made since then. 

 

Is it really a middle ground though?  It has very little rpg experience imo. 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the bit that is relevant is: Design-wise, this presents players with options so they can band together against other factions fluidly from campaign to campaign without being locked into a specific faction forever. 

 

That suggests interchangeable deities - which infers archetypes have no crow memory...

The Crows are spirits from the past, risen by the Gods or by circumstance. This life, where you probably followed one of the gods, won't be remembered. As you transcended to a Crow, you will continue to remember your life from vessel to vessel, though memories should start blending together.

 

According to the Faq, at least, your memory will work like that. "Spiritual Knowledge is comprised of the memories that you accumulate over the course of many lives – which means that they are stored on your crow. "

 

So by default, you don't owe any loyalty to any god and is free to choose. As the gods don't affect things directly (as far as I know), who you'd choose to follow could easily change and it won't have any consequences. Maybe you followed a certain god in one campaign, but was disappointed in him or her in any way, maybe you'll choose another one next time.

 

Could be interesting if they affected the campaign worlds more in the pantheon campaigns, and players could get bonuses/penalties for various things according to the gods.

Edited by Smed

o8WHnLc.png

THE most active European guild. Join us now!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Crows are spirits from the past, risen by the Gods or by circumstance. This life, where you probably followed one of the gods, won't be remembered. As you transcended to a Crow, you will continue to remember your life from vessel to vessel, though memories should start blending together.

 

I'm going to need to start exercising my vessel's memory muscle. The number of times I die, my vessel is going to be full to the brim!


"Proud" owner of the domains : http://www.crowfall2.com and http://www.guinecean.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Psh. I don't know about your Crows, but my Crow remembers all of her past lives!

 

(A little bit more lore from the Devs would be nice though.)

I always thought that my crow was just my eternal soul and vessels are dead corpses that our souls take charge of; then the abilities of our crow's mind allow us to control the physical limitations of the mortal body we are currently using.

 

I'm going to play my crow as remembering everything from the physical death, which was a one time experience.  Once we become crows, there is no death, there is only destruction of the current vessel we are inhabiting.

 

@Deloria, I think we as the community need to just override the current lore that Pann mentioned and make it to where we believe that we do know our pasts, or at least have the ability to.  This gives us the full spectrum to work with.  Since there is no game mechanic that can actually wipe our memories, then there is no meat to Pann's/Todd's concept of forgetful crows.


lUvvzPy.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did I say they were going for one or the other?  They themselves have said they want to take the good things from the past and merge them with the innovation and breakthroughs made since then. 

 

Is it really a middle ground though?  It has very little rpg experience imo. 

 

Not really, but you seemed to imply that there is an established "nature of the game" already that going more "modern" with less character bonding will change negatively.

 

Regardless if it is middle, blending, merging, taking a little of this and that, they are clearly going after different demos with the design and why I backed it to begin with.

 

If someone comes looking for the best RPG experience ever, they'll probably be let down, but I don't see much from ACE suggesting it will be so. Although elements are still there to attract RPG fans.

 

There isn't a magical ingredient to make players bond with their characters nor become "immersed." If someone wants to, they will find a way, if not, the game should be enjoyable without doing so.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would argue that Crowfall needs to urgently seperate itself out from the flood of MoBAs that have popped up in the past few years.

 

Literally dozens of free-to-play games can be found that offer the bells and whistles for instant gratification in arena combat.

 

I myself play Overwatch for that kind of thing. I don't need, or want - or expect Crowfall to simply be another arena fighter. I bought Overwatch for 40 dollars but I'm into Crowfall for 5 to 600 precisely because it promises so much more.

 

The clue is to diversify... it is exactly because of offering continuity and extended gameplay options - and a level of persistence beyond what we find in the market today, that Crowfall has a chance to set itself apart from the rest of the field.

 

A rinse-repeat formula will significantly diminish its appeal.

 

An example I can give is Overwatch - which is shallow as hell but oh Crackers did they work out some of the lore and backstory. I love Tracer to bits: One of the strongest characters (and rolemodels) I ever found in a computer game. I play her excusively PRECISELY becuase I got emotionally invested in her.

 

Why I'm into Crowfall: Because I have a chance to build a character to relate to at that level and then follow them through their experiences in a vibrant ever changing universe..

 

I see little "instant gratification" in CF's design as is and little in comparison to what makes a MOBA a MOBA. Archetype swapping seems to be one of the few similarities and that has always been a part of fantasy mmorpgs thanks to character slots. Don't see much need for CF to "urgently separate" as it already is quite different and anyone that sees CF as a MOBA or close to Overwatch must be looking through some funky glasses.

 

Despite CWs coming and going and the Vessel system, they still have plenty of individual and community/universe persistence/permanence for fans to latch on to, at least in comparison to mmorpgs from today and the past. Fans simply have to approach the game for what it is and has to offer, not try to fit into a particular box that it can't.

 

If you can become emotionally attached to a character/game world you have close to zero control over in OW, I can only imagine that you'll find CF's design as is to be hugely more engaging.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think if ACE doesn't find a good way to have players develop some sort of meaningful bond with their characters it is going to change the nature of the game completely in a bad way.

 

If people aren't attached to their characters because of the crow and vessel system, and campaigns reset so there isn't any real permanence in that regard, and training is all passive so it doesn't require any active or memorable effort, the overall game experience is probably going to be closer to logging in to play a game of league of legends or overwatch, than similar to something like the 1st generation mmorpgs or even a vanilla WoW level of character attachment.

 

Yup.  I think ACE could find a way--but will they?  Given a design that pretty much screams "we do not care about character bond" (while ironically claiming a genre that is built on it) is it a high enough priority for them to spend the resources necessary to shore it up?  That being stated, I cannot imagine a situation where this effort would not be in the best interests of ACE or the majority of players.  


The Artist Formerly Known as Regulus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I see little "instant gratification" in CF's design as is and little in comparison to what makes a MOBA a MOBA. Archetype swapping seems to be one of the few similarities and that has always been a part of fantasy mmorpgs thanks to character slots. Don't see much need for CF to "urgently separate" as it already is quite different and anyone that sees CF as a MOBA or close to Overwatch must be looking through some funky glasses.

 

Despite CWs coming and going and the Vessel system, they still have plenty of individual and community/universe persistence/permanence for fans to latch on to, at least in comparison to mmorpgs from today and the past. Fans simply have to approach the game for what it is and has to offer, not try to fit into a particular box that it can't.

 

If you can become emotionally attached to a character/game world you have close to zero control over in OW, I can only imagine that you'll find CF's design as is to be hugely more engaging.

 

I think we are having a depth verus length discussion.

 

Moba means massive online battle arena... It doesnt say whether that means shortterm or long term campaigns or what the nature of the battle should be like.... Its battle and it takes place in an arena.

 

The primary differences in CF versus *take your pick battle arena*are about HOW battle is accommplished in the arena (use of fortifications and sieges as well as 1-on-1 player combat.. and HOW LONG Battle lasts (campaigns in weeks and months rather than hours and minutes). 

 

But one common element to Battle arenas is the swapping of characters and heroes to mix and match and shakeup strategies.... And in this regard the Vessel formula seems to be primarily a design choice to facilitate that agility - and yes this is similar to Overwatch where one can choose 1 of 22 characters prior to battle, and then can swap them out in the safe zone.

 

The reason I love Tracer in Overwatch is because of her history and backstory.. But i have no input in that. Her story is not mine.. Its simply me finding a strongly identifiable character (the way guys have been digging Master Chief for years maybe?). 

 

The reason I and other story nuts are investing in CF is because we hope to be able to describe our own characters and build our own stories... More than simply riding the coattails of a prefabricated character. (Blizzard is extremely good at making those).

 

So at heart the character swapout feature of CF through the vessel system seems to be very gameplay oriented.. It can be described as a moba-level swapout system and tbh what a lot of us are saying is that that will come at the cost of what you rightly describe as persistence for individuals. The game will noy be deep enough to appeal to players that are looking for more than a battle - the emotional attachement part.

 

If all archetypes are more or less generic (Think Overwatch where your Tracer is fighting my Tracer) or vessels become basically meat sacks for parts..then there will be very little meaningful character development. EKs and such are entirely secondary to whether or not one is vicariously and immersively enjoying the world in the first place.

 

In 2015 the level of character customisation in modern games is usually extremely detailed... Precisely because players want to identify as original and unique in the games they play. The more generic we have to be the less we will relate to characters at the vessel level (We already understand Crows to be very generic)... In length the game promises an incredible level of fidelity... but in depth I worry it becomes a moba especially in regards to character selection, customisation and definition.

 

Ironically that level of unique character customisation in modern games is a massive income generator if handled correctly. Look at Overwatch with its loot boxes. BDO with its costumes. Archeage with pets.. Tera.. The Division.. You name it.. Cash shop micropurchases for cosmetics are major source of income for most games these days.. But will only work if players form an attachment to the character they role with.

For example: I would not dress up a chess piece for 10 cents. I would not spend 10 dollars on a costume for Tracer in overwatch. But I would pay 30 for a character in BDO ( I ended up spending 100s there for various costumes). <--- If for no other reason than this Art+Craft MUST care about character develoment and bonding for players.

 

This is not a new conversation - a lot of especially roleplayers are skeptical to the vessel system and the loss of character involvement and that emotional bond... but tbh I think we are just children shouting cos the room is quiet. I am confident Art+Craft see the issue and will address it.

Edited by Deloria

www.CrowfallRP.com


Disclaimer: My RP with you might become a public story: https://soundcloud.com/shiv-mahon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think we are having a depth verus length discussion.

 

Moba means massive online battle arena... It doesnt say whether that means shortterm or long term campaigns or what the nature of the battle should be like.... Its battle and it takes place in an arena.

...

 

Moba refers to a very specific genre though. It isn't just any game that is an online battle arena, otherwise Battlefield 1 or even Overwatch would be Mobas. But they aren't. Mobas are LoL or Dota 2. That game with the lanes, the towers, etc. I agree that the only thing in common CF has to a Moba is hero swapping. They are very different. 

 

The worlds in CF may not be permanent (like an online pvp arena), but the characters and guild infrastructure are. Your skills increase over time and won't be reset when the campaign is over, there is persistence in that regard. You take resources out of each world to build your guild's permanent HQ or your personal stash. You can take some of that stash to the next campaign, etc. 

 

As to Pann's post about crows not remembering their past lives, I also assume that means their mortal lives before becoming a Crow. Otherwise it makes no sense whatsoever. You wouldn't even remember your guild or social circles after swapping vessels. I seriously doubt the devs would make such an oversight. 


 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Moba refers to a very specific genre though. It isn't just any game that is an online battle arena, otherwise Battlefield 1 or even Overwatch would be Mobas. But they aren't. Mobas are LoL or Dota 2. That game with the lanes, the towers, etc. I agree that the only thing in common CF has to a Moba is hero swapping. They are very different. 

 

The worlds in CF may not be permanent (like an online pvp arena), but the characters and guild infrastructure are. Your skills increase over time and won't be reset when the campaign is over, there is persistence in that regard. You take resources out of each world to build your guild's permanent HQ or your personal stash. You can take some of that stash to the next campaign, etc. 

 

As to Pann's post about crows not remembering their past lives, I also assume that means their mortal lives before becoming a Crow. Otherwise it makes no sense whatsoever. You wouldn't even remember your guild or social circles after swapping vessels. I seriously doubt the devs would make such an oversight. 

 

 

 

 

Theres no quicker way to upset an Overwatch fan than to describe it as a Moba - but it has so many of the same elements. You can google "Is Overwatch a Moba?" and see the discussion.

 

Lets be kind to Overwatch fans and call it a moba-like. Crowfall will be a Moba-like too, in different ways.

 

If we are going to nit-pick the semantics then Moba is massive online battle arena with strategy elements... and there are hundreds of that type of game.. compared to a few years ago. If Crowfall *only* wanted to be a Moba I think we can agree it would have too much competiton frm well established games. I hope  it wants to be more - for me that starts with persistent characters, and I wait to see what more Art+Craft have to say about that.

 

In Crowfall the MASSIVE ONLINE is the thousands of players.. the BATTLE ARENA is the campaign... and we can disagree on the content and the semantics but primarily i wanted to point in the direction of character creation and customisation and how important that is for anything that wants to be more than a moba or moba-like.

 

In a Moba-like its not really needed, but in an mmo it arguably is.. A lot of us are sitting anxiously waiting for Art+Craft to decide where they want to go in this regard.

 

But to be clear: I'm not a fan of labels.. I use the Moba tag cos its easy and - honestly - i want the discussion on precicely what makes Crowfall more than a moba.

 

I think the past few years there has been an explosion in team based arena games.. Some are FPS shooters like Overwatch. Some are top down strategy games like HOTS - which also Blizzard refuses to call MOBA: It wants to describe it as Arena RTS, which I think is a better tag for what was traditionally the "Moba" genre...

Edited by Deloria

www.CrowfallRP.com


Disclaimer: My RP with you might become a public story: https://soundcloud.com/shiv-mahon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Theres no quicker way to upset an Overwatch fan than to describe it as a Moba - but it has so many of the same elements. You can google "Is Overwatch a Moba?" and see the discussion.

 

Lets be kind to Overwatch fans and call it a moba-like. Crowfall will be a Moba-like too, in different ways.

 

If we are going to nit-pick the semantics then Moba is massive online battle arena with strategy elements... and there are hundreds of that type of game.. compared to a few years ago. If Crowfall *only* wanted to be a Moba I think we can agree it would have too much competiton frm well established games. I hope  it wants to be more - for me that starts with persistent characters, and I wait to see what more Art+Craft have to say about that.

 

In Crowfall the MASSIVE ONLINE is the thousands of players.. the BATTLE ARENA is the campaign... and we can disagree on the content and the semantics but primarily i wanted to point in the direction of character creation and customisation and how important that is for anything that wants to be more than a moba or moba-like.

 

In a Moba-like its not really needed, but in an mmo it arguably is.. A lot of us are sitting anxiously waiting for Art+Craft to decide where they want to go in this regard.

 

But to be clear: I'm not a fan of labels.. I use the Moba tag cos its easy and - honestly - i want the discussion on precicely what makes Crowfall more than a moba.

 

I think the past few years there has been an explosion in team based arena games.. Some are FPS shooters like Overwatch. Some are top down strategy games like HOTS - which also Blizzard refuses to call MOBA: It wants to describe it as Arena RTS, which I think is a better tag for what was traditionally the "Moba" genre...

 

Im not sure why labeling something as a MOBA is so taboo. Similar to WoW bringing a vast player base that usually wouldn't play a video game, MOBA is doing that but for professional play.

 

Look at League of Legends and Dota 2. There is now literally millions of dollars in competitive gaming. That is unheard of.

 

With that being said, i insist people need to stop looking at a archetype as their character. For one, people lie to themselves about creating a unique character in -most- games. Its not unique, the game its made in is simply impossible to have that amount of customization. You create it in the style you want to play. Even if theres alot of options, generally theres very few 'good' ways to do it.

 

So the face creation is generally where the uniqueness will come from in those games.

 

I believe Crowfall will be able to make each character fairly unique. Mainly because the vessel is a item and will have the same randomly generated bonus's.

 

I sort of like the fact i may have a awesome vessel for a campaign and will be devastated at the end of it when its decayed to the point i cant use it any longer. It may be a long time before i found a vessel as powerful as that one. It will be a one of a kind, a brief spark of power never to be seen again.

 

People just have to readjust their perceptions a bit. Or not, who am i to say how you are to enjoy a game. :)

Edited by Vectious

CfWBSig.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Im not sure why labeling something as a MOBA is so taboo. Similar to WoW bringing a vast player base that usually wouldn't play a video game, MOBA is doing that but for professional play.

 

Look at League of Legends and Dota 2. There is now literally millions of dollars in competitive gaming. That is unheard of.

 

The taboo is because "Moba" reflects a somewhat shallow gameplay experience - where game mechanics trump all other aspects of the game.

Especailly in short intense sessions Mobas appeal the most - but all the evidence suggests mobas are the antithesis of persistent gameplay experiences.

 

When Art+Craft write stuff like the story is only there to support the gameplay mechanics and in lore vessels have no crow memoies so character memories will be wiped campaign to campain  it suggests that persistence accross campaigsn will not be there. Basically the vessel mechanism is reducing characters to bags of parts.

 

With that being said, i insist people need to stop looking at a archetype as their character. For one, people lie to themselves about creating a unique character in -most- games. Its not unique, the game its made in is simply impossible to have that amount of customization. You create it in the style you want to play. Even if theres alot of options, generally theres very few 'good' ways to do it.

 

So the face creation is generally where the uniqueness will come from in those games.

You can insist all you like - but right now archetypes are all we have. Vessels are all we have: Thats why when the devs describe things like memory wipe from campaign to campaign it is worrisome. Character uniqueness is critical. An extended relationship to your character is paramount for persistence. No MMO would dare to wipe your character in game plot every time a season ended.. But a moba does it all the time cos *who cares?* I'm not panicking yet - but I'm waiting for more info about how character development is supposed to be. Until we know more from Art+Craft that seems to be the implication though and it worries a few players.


www.CrowfallRP.com


Disclaimer: My RP with you might become a public story: https://soundcloud.com/shiv-mahon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

The taboo is because "Moba" reflects a somewhat shallow gameplay experience - where game mechanics trump all other aspects of the game.

Especailly in short intense sessions Mobas appeal the most - but all the evidence suggests mobas are the antithesis of persistent gameplay experiences.

 

When Art+Craft write stuff like the story is only there to support the gameplay mechanics and in lore vessels have no crow memoies so character memories will be wiped campaign to campain  it suggests that persistence accross campaigsn will not be there. Basically the vessel mechanism is reducing characters to bags of parts.

 

You can insist all you like - but right now archetypes are all we have. Vessels are all we have: Thats why when the devs describe things like memory wipe from campaign to campaign it is worrisome. Character uniqueness is critical. An extended relationship to your character is paramount for persistence. No MMO would dare to wipe your character in game plot every time a season ended.. But a moba does it all the time cos *who cares?* I'm not panicking yet - but I'm waiting for more info about how character development is supposed to be. Until we know more from Art+Craft that seems to be the implication though and it worries a few players.

 

Except memory is not a tangible thing. From your character's point of view its entirely on how you actually perceive it.  And ultimately, ACE does not tell you how to RP. Thats up to you.  

 

Lore lays down the foundation and general guidelines, its up to you to take that and change it to fit your style of adventure. Obviously things of crowfall are being influenced by D&D where ultimately, how the rules are followed or not followed is by the DM. We are given our own worlds, our own dimensions that in essence, we are our own DM's in these worlds.

 

I have read alot of books that have a licensed IP, Warhammer, Starwars, Forgotten Realms, etc and the author may bend or in some cases break lore rules in order to tell his story. Do the same, tell your own story and bend or break the rules as you need to.


CfWBSig.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This discussion has been going on since they revealed Crows and Vessels, but to my knowledge ACE has not really responded to backer concerns like those above (a general line or two, here and there).  If I am wrong, please point me to post or video.  

 

It would be nice to hear either: a. we hear your concerns and we have something in store for you, or b. we hear your concerns, however we regret to inform you that perhaps CF is not the game for you.

 

Crows and Vessels should have been something that was part of the discussion since Kickstarter.  ACE has given their reasons why it was not (and I will take them at their word).   However, it is such a significant change that alters the appeal of the game for many MMORPG enthusiasts.  It has sent up multiple red flags that ACE simply has not addressed.     


The Artist Formerly Known as Regulus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have some time, so long reply  :)

 

 

The reason I and other story nuts are investing in CF is because we hope to be able to describe our own characters and build our own stories... 

 

vessel system seems to be very gameplay oriented.

 

The game will noy be deep enough to appeal to players that are looking for more than a battle - the emotional attachement part.

 

archetypes are more or less generic or vessels become basically meat sacks for parts..then there will be very little meaningful character development. 

 

customisation in modern games is a massive income generator

 

Not sure what is stopping you from creating your character and stories. Also not sure what is supporting your hope that the game will be built to make this easier for you.

 

From KS on, game seems entirely focused on "the battle" or the gameplay and all the features built around that. Not sitting around taking selfies and RPing in a bar. RPers have always been a minority and not sure why you think CF would be different. If you want something that only you can create (character story, immersion, pixel bonding), that's on you.

 

I've never played a game that did something to make me be emotionally attached to my character. That is entirely on me. Buying a $30 costume doesn't magically do it and I'd bet for most it is more for vanity and looking cool then some deep immersion. Which yes makes games money and I assume ACE will take advantage of ($7,000 for a vanity house).

 

Archetypes seem to be meat sacks. A means to an end that you can choose to bond with or not. You'll still have passive training and whatever comes of that. Be it you become a crafter, gathering, fighter, scout, builder, merchant, etc. Those go beyond what Archetype you choose at a given time. "Characters" are a higher level than just there race/class/gear. EKs are persistent along with whatever Community you are a part of. Seem little of a "character" is lost between CWs beyond a body that can be replaced in different shapes and forms.

 

Devs can't make character development have meaning.

 

BDO has some nice customization, but most of it is entirely wasted once you slap on gear or even costumes that look like everyone else. Beyond those sitting around taking selfies, it is for nothing. Cool feature, no impact on gameplay outside of RPers and vanity. 

 

You can google "Is Overwatch a Moba?" and see the discussion.

 

If we are going to nit-pick the semantics then Moba is massive online battle arena with strategy elements...

 

I hope  it wants to be more - for me that starts with persistent characters, and I wait to see what more Art+Craft have to say about that.

 

character creation and customisation and how important that is for anything that wants to be more than a moba or moba-like.

 

A lot of us are sitting anxiously waiting for Art+Craft to decide where they want to go in this regard.

 

i want the discussion on precicely what makes Crowfall more than a moba.

 

I can google a lot of things and find lots of opinions, we all have them. *Actually searched and 1st page of results are "Why OW isn't a MOBA."*

 

If we are going to nit-pick, then look at the overall game design and list of features not a few cherry picked that happened to be shared between genres. Pretty sure I could say a Car is a Boat fairly easily with a few similarities.

 

There is nothing "massive" about a MOBA and if a CW game world the size that ACE is going for is just an "arena" to you, not sure what to say.

 

Characters are persistent with some fluid aspects. However, it depends on what makes a character a character to you. Is the character it's race/gender/gear/class or something more? Can it be a character outside of those things? The lore seems to accommodate the issue well enough. Your a ghost going around taking over bodies. Not too crazy.

 

Customization wise, CF should have just as much as EQ/WoW like games when it comes to looks. Maybe not the shoulder pads of WoW...So safely non-MOBA like in that regard.

 

Swapping characters in CF seems to be possible in-game, where most MOBAs this isn't. Most MMOs allow swapping between characters outside of gameplay. Therefore, WoW/EQ are MOBAs. Seems silly.

 

Not sure what you are waiting for, they've said what customization will look like, what the lore foundation is, and how character/vessels will work.

 

If you need a discussion to list out what makes CF more than or not a MOBA, probably not much can be said to make it clear. 

 

 
Moba" reflects a somewhat shallow gameplay experience - where game mechanics trump all other aspects of the game.

 

When Art+Craft write stuff like the story is only there to support the gameplay mechanics and in lore vessels have no crow memoies so character memories will be wiped campaign to campain  it suggests that persistence accross campaigsn will not be there. Basically the vessel mechanism is reducing characters to bags of parts.

 

devs describe things like memory wipe from campaign to campaign it is worrisome. Character uniqueness is critical. An extended relationship to your character is paramount for persistence. No MMO would dare to wipe your character in game plot every time a season ended..

 it worries a few players.

 

What mmos don't have mechanics > all or at least where someone actually has to pay attention to non-mechanics to play the game well? For all the tons of lore in something like WoW, someone can just click through page after page of quests/story to get their shiny loot without knowing about the story.

 

Characters have no memories that I know of. We do. Stats and what not will follow as much as Vessels/Gear can through import/export and obviously trained progression remains.

 

Not sure what "plot" can be wiped that can be obtained in CF. If you and buddies RP as XYZ, a CW ending won't wipe your memories (I hope).

 

I feel for the RPers, but always been this way and nothing about CF seems to change it. ACE is doing it a bit different and mixing features of various games/genres, but the underlying design/theme stays fairly true to a fantasy mmo with battle as the center piece.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...