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Quurk

Not sure how I feel about Crowfall

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In my subjective experience, character persistence does not always equal character attachment. 

 

 

People will become attached to anything they become close and personal with. A house, a car, a toy. There isn't a need for persistence except for those handful few who think they need it. I mean, players become attached to characters in MOBAS even though you have very little control over their customization. Hells, you can't even change their names. Yet I have meet many people who are proud to call themselves Riven players, or who become upset when someone "steals" "their" champion or tarnishes "Riven Players" by playing them poorly.

 

My point being that it might not be so different (and probably won't) in Crowfall. People will become attached to the profession instead. It's just human nature. The only people left in the dirt may be RPers, but personally I just think that's a lack of imagination or stubbornness more than anything else.

Edited by Cerulean Shaman

Wearily do I sleep eternity away.

Without fear or haste, on bedding made of solitude and silence.

 

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People will become attached to anything they become close and personal with. A house, a car, a toy. There isn't a need for persistence except for those handful few who think they need it. I mean, players become attached to characters in MOBAS even though you have very control over their customization. Hells, you can't even change their names. Yet I have meet many people who are proud to call themselves Riven players, or who become upset when someone "steals" "their" champion or tarnishes "Riven Players" by playing them poorly.

 

My point being that it might not be so different (and probably won't) in Crowfall. People will become attached to the profession instead. It's just human nature. The only people left in the dirt may be RPers, but personally I just think that's a lack of imagination or stubbornness more than anything else.

Human nature is to become attached to things that they can relate to or have put a lot of work into. 

 

Anyway mmorpg attachment like people felt in first generation MMOs and a few of the later ones is a lot different from the attachment people form with moba characters, but if someone doesn't get it they just don't get it.

 

To me personally it was pretty gratifying destroying people in pvp when I knew they put a ton of work and hours into a character and had made tough decisions that they had to stick with.


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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...

 

My point being that it might not be so different (and probably won't) in Crowfall. People will become attached to the profession instead. It's just human nature. The only people left in the dirt may be RPers, but personally I just think that's a lack of imagination or stubbornness more than anything else.

 

Well, RP will take a hit, but I would argue most hardcore RPers, a comparatively small population, are going to be fine (another conversation perhaps).  However, it is exactly the RP-lite, escapist, run-of-the-mill RPGer that takes the hit. 

 

Here is why:

 

 

Heritage, origin, stigmas, species, these things play heavily into identity, a serious component of role playing.

 

You could role play anything, even a leaf on a tree, but the qualities of role playing are tied to features which create identity. This vessel system may provide a unique role playing experience as a body snatching ghost, but it takes away with one hand as it dispenses with the other, all the other role playing experiences possible are eliminated, as a Fae, or a Centaur, or a proud Guineacian. Your physical standing is how others identify you, it's how we identify ppl, playing as a ghost doesn't convey the kind of identities natural to us as human beings.

 

With no story driven narrative, and displaced character identity, i think it's fair to strike the RPG sub genre from the title.

 

Even if you lock yourself into an archetype or vessel, your not only accepting a competitive disadvantage, but you're relationship with other characters isn't natural. Is that a proud Guineacian brother? Or an elven deceiver?, is that a noble Centaur over yonder?, or some silly human trying to figure out how to walk with 4 hooves rather than 2 feet.

 

Is that a tempting Druid?, or a pervy dwarf exploring female anatomy on himself?

 

You can roleplayer static identities within an isolated community of players who maintain a single vessel, but your going to have to accept that any unknown player, even on an RP world if such a thing exists, may be a transient crow.

 

So how's a Fae to trust her sisters if they could be men in disguise? It will take a lot of narrative to construct a meaningful fantasy for roleplayers to adapt to their unique setting, something I think a story lite world will not provide, something I don't think can compare to the established RP behaviors.

 

 

These are bahamutkaiser's posts from another thread (emphasis mine).  He nicely sets up one of the stronger arguments against the C&V system.  This has been discussed to death in multiple threads, but I can't seem to help myself and feel compelled to post in most of them. 

 

The fact is that we have C&V system, and ACE admitted is was a big change and basically said that some of us were going to hate it.  The fact is that this system was added after Kickstarting was done and supports and been pledging for some time.  The fact is that many feel that it changes the game in a negative way for reasons included in this thread and scattered hither and yon across these boards.

 

However, what is unknown is if ACE is going to address supporter concern with it in any meaningful way.  They have been nearly silent on the subject (as far as I know) since the "big reveal", as least in relation to effects on immersion, attachment and RP are concerned.  My ultimate hope is there will be some sort of RP campaign or other, perhaps more creative, solution.  Todd, Blair and Gordon have been involved in RPGs a long time and I can't believe that they are totally comfortable with and have no reservations about the C&V system. 


The Artist Formerly Known as Regulus

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Human nature is to become attached to things that they can relate to or have put a lot of work into. 

 

Anyway mmorpg attachment like people felt in first generation MMOs and a few of the later ones is a lot different from the attachment people form with moba characters, but if someone doesn't get it they just don't get it.

 

To me personally it was pretty gratifying destroying people in pvp when I knew they put a ton of work and hours into a character and had made tough decisions that they had to stick with.

 

 

I agree, which is exactly why I said you can become attached to anything, and personally I don't think it's very different than becoming attached to a moba character. You may think it's different, but to them they spent years trudging through battlefields, losing and winning battles, making amazing players, and learning advanced techniques in ways that are pretty parallel to someone taking their personal character through a traditional mmo. The specific experiences may be different, but ultimately the overall experience and, in my opinion, the attachment is the same.

 

Maybe I understand this a bit better because I'm a heavy reader. I can become really attached to the characters I read, but they're not mine, are they? They have their own background and lore and goals. Yet when I play my character I'm essentially going through the same exact thing... it's just all of my own making, but the resulting attachment is pretty much the same.

 

Well, RP will take a hit, but I would argue most hardcore RPers, a comparatively small population, are going to be fine (another conversation perhaps).  However, it is exactly the RP-lite, escapist, run-of-the-mill RPGer that takes the hit. 

 

Here is why:

 

 

These are bahamutkaiser's posts from another thread (emphasis mine).  He nicely sets up one of the stronger arguments against the C&V system.  This has been discussed to death in multiple threads, but I can't seem to help myself and feel compelled to post in most of them. 

 

The fact is that we have C&V system, and ACE admitted is was a big change and basically said that some of us were going to hate it.  The fact is that this system was added after Kickstarting was done and supports and been pledging for some time.  The fact is that many feel that it changes the game in a negative way for reasons included in this thread and scattered hither and yon across these boards.

 

However, what is unknown is if ACE is going to address supporter concern with it in any meaningful way.  They have been nearly silent on the subject (as far as I know) since the "big reveal", as least in relation to effects on immersion, attachment and RP are concerned.  My ultimate hope is there will be some sort of RP campaign or other, perhaps more creative, solution.  Todd, Blair and Gordon have been involved in RPGs a long time and I can't believe that they are totally comfortable with and have no reservations about the C&V system. 

 

I understand where you're coming from, but I politely still believe it to be a critical lack of imagination. When it comes to something with no grounds in reality the only limitation is your mind, for example it can be established lore that X race died out with 100% certainty (somehow, lol), but it'd be silly to cite that lore as a reason for never seeing them in the game. Some very base, off the top of my head ways to allow them to exist include being brought back to life by a god or from the past through some calamity, or transformed in some way to serve the god of death or some other god, or the information on how X race is even created is flat out wrong (Undead? Possessed?) so a new breed of X race shows up later... ect...

 

Yes, you'd still have to work around the system, by why can't you? Isn't that the whole point of rping in an established game world? So then, why can't your  crow be an exception? The singular crows that DO remember their past lives? Maybe it's a mercy to the rest of us, but now your characters are blessed or cursed with knowledge of their previous lives. This alone can continue on in various ways, from struggling to find others like yourself (rp guild idea!) or coping with the situation you're in. It'd be interesting to see a male Minotaur continue to identify as one but yet inhabit the body of a female druid while pretending it doesn't bother him because he's supposedly as memory-dead as the rest of his comrades.

 

Frankly, this is your only real option because there's a huge grocery list of things the game needs and, again politely, I don't think RPing tools are a priority. I personally don't even think they're a necessity. Light lore is in my opinion better for rping unless you just like most of the leg work being done for you. Everyone knows how an arrogant elf or a Warhammer ork acts, after all, making them painfully easy and thoughtless to replicate.


Wearily do I sleep eternity away.

Without fear or haste, on bedding made of solitude and silence.

 

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Frankly, this is your only real option because there's a huge grocery list of things the game needs and, again politely, I don't think RPing tools are a priority. I personally don't even think they're a necessity. Light lore is in my opinion better for rping unless you just like most of the leg work being done for you. Everyone knows how an arrogant elf or a Warhammer ork acts, after all, making them painfully easy and thoughtless to replicate.

 

Your quote supports the idea that hardcore RP under the C&V system is, in fact, just fine.  People role-played Jedi Knights in WoW for goodness sake.  However, it is exactly the RPG that comes under attack through this system.  We used to be attracted to these types of games in large part due to the "RPing tools" that were provided by developers and assumed by players.  Great RPGs have both fun mechanics and engrossing fluff and through the combination of both provide immersion for the largest audience (that is, the majority of RPG players).  Call it lazy RP if you'd like, but this is the stuff living game worlds are made of, because It is not so much what we imagine about ourselves (i.e., our characters) but what we know and suspect of the characters around us that gives us a relatable world to inhabit.         

 

The lamentable fact is that this was not an issue until it was made into one for presumably (based on the information provided) mechanical reasons.  The C&V is acutely artificial, and the resultant and obviously contrived nature of Crowfall is, perhaps, its greatest downfall.  As you state, RP tools may not be a priority.  However, CW rule sets are.  Therefore, it is not unreasonable to think that something might be done.     


The Artist Formerly Known as Regulus

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The lamentable fact is that this was not an issue until it was made into one for presumably (based on the information provided) mechanical reasons.  The C&V is acutely artificial, and the resultant and obviously contrived nature of Crowfall is, perhaps, its greatest downfall. 

 

How is the C&V system more artificial than having persistent bodies to play as? Assuming this is what you mean.

 

Looking at the overall design of players fighting for gods, zipping around from one world/realm to another, dying countless times in the process, systems based on destruction-loss-decay, and zombie/undead creatures, the whole "spirit" deal works better for me.

 

A Vessel can die but a Crow can't.

 

Where as a persistent Duelist that gets punted like a football off a cliff likely isn't going to be in good shape. Reaching 0 HP as an "immortal" and relying on gamey mechanics to magically respawn seems just as, if not more artificial.

 

Then again, how EKs work into all this is a bit strange as well. Not sure why a spirit/Crow would need its own kingdom, nor trade goods and whatever else. Gods don't provide provisions? Why are we fighting for them? Why aren't we just flying through the universe with our Crow pals on permanent vacation?

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How is the C&V system more artificial than having persistent bodies to play as? Assuming this is what you mean.

 

...

 

Because persistent bodies only exist because RPGs that require time investment (and profit from it) would not do well if there was permadeath.  Why C&V exists has never clearly been explained, though Blair did talk about gear and EKs having something to do with it (so it is interesting you brought up EKs because, apparently, C&V is in place in part because of EKs).  That being said, it has the heavy odor of EVE, lobby and hero shooter all over it.

 

In truth, a lot of CF is heavily influenced by mechanics with a thin veneer of lore over the top.  As much as I appreciate many of the features of CF--especially those revived after the long night of WoW clones--those features really didn't originally exist in a vacuum and were developed to reflect a world.  What ACE has done is to reassemble these features to create a crunch heavy game which they painted fantasy, and there's a big difference. 

 

So, to be clear, CF is a generally contrived game based on the reassembly of features/mechanics (past and some present) and the C&V system is simply the fridge nuke/shark jump that assures a death stroke to suspension of disbelief.  It is as if they walked right up to the edge, looked around and said, "Ah, custard it..." as they skipped over.  I say this, too, as a fan of the game and an admirer of the devs work. 


The Artist Formerly Known as Regulus

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Because persistent bodies only exist because RPGs that require time investment (and profit from it) would not do well if there was permadeath.  Why C&V exists has never clearly been explained, though Blair did talk about gear and EKs having something to do with it (so it is interesting you brought up EKs because, apparently, C&V is in place in part because of EKs).  That being said, it has the heavy odor of EVE, lobby and hero shooter all over it.

 

In truth, a lot of CF is heavily influenced by mechanics with a thin veneer of lore over the top.  As much as I appreciate many of the features of CF--especially those revived after the long night of WoW clones--those features really didn't originally exist in a vacuum and were developed to reflect a world.  What ACE has done is to reassemble these features to create a crunch heavy game which they painted fantasy, and there's a big difference. 

 

So, to be clear, CF is a generally contrived game based on the reassembly of features/mechanics (past and some present) and the C&V system is simply the fridge nuke/shark jump that assures a death stroke to suspension of disbelief.  It is as if they walked right up to the edge, looked around and said, "Ah, custard it..." as they skipped over.  I say this, too, as a fan of the game and an admirer of the devs work. 

 

creating lore doesn't build a functioning game. you build the game first, then make the lore to explain, describe and add depth to it. had you discovered CF years after it's launch the lore would no doubt seem less contrived. 

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Why C&V exists has never clearly been explained

 

it has the heavy odor of EVE, lobby and hero shooter all over it.

 

In truth, a lot of CF is heavily influenced by mechanics with a thin veneer of lore over the top.

 

What ACE has done is to reassemble these features to create a crunch heavy game which they painted fantasy, and there's a big difference. 

 

So, to be clear, CF is a generally contrived game based on the reassembly of features/mechanics (past and some present) and the C&V system is simply the fridge nuke/shark jump that assures a death stroke to suspension of disbelief.

 

I believe this has always been the case and rather clear. I've never felt that CF would be some lore heavy RP paradise.

 

They've been very upfront about EVE inspirations and connections to lobby based games isn't hard to see.

 

Mechanics do appear to be the priority with lore as fluff to add flavor and as long as the game functions, I don't see this as a problem. Those that need a deeper RPG/Lore experience, might have to look elsewhere if unable to do it without devs pre-creating context/content.

 

C&V is similar to EVE ships and adds a decent amount to strategy and economy of the game. Likely a source of income as well for those that want to have several alts going at once and needing multiple accounts to do so. Although I don't know what C&V system means for playing in multiple CWs at once, I've assumed it won't be possible.

 

As with any game, players have to take particular features simply as a means to an end, that being the overall design and experience. Doesn't have to make sense all the time and doesn't always fit our ideals.

 

Given time, my guess is the lore/RPG elements will come, but for such a limited team-funding-time frame, they can only do so much. They also don't have the luxury of using an established IP or generic fantasy/D&D type setting to borrow from.

 

Personally, I'd rather a game be enjoyable and stand on it's own qualities/features than just a layer of pretty coating (lore). Not that it hurts a game, but amazing lore and what not likely won't save a game if its fundamentals are poor. Hence why I am others are concerned about combat in this one. It is a combat game at its core and no amount of amazing crafting, node smacking, skills trees, or story will likely save it if the basics of combat don't keep folks coming back.

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I've never had more fun farming hellcats than last night.  It's so nice to chop them up in to little bits.

 

Also, emergent PvP was already good fun during this test, and I'm looking forward to larger scale POIs (other than the one Hellcat spawn) to encourage more grand melee.

 

 

That all said, I feel pretty attached to playing my Myrmidon, and that's not a function of what body I'm in, it's a function of what character I get to play.

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Although I don't know what C&V system means for playing in multiple CWs at once, I've assumed it won't be possible.

 

 

I did read in a recent Reddit AMA that we would be able to "subscribe" to 3 Campaign Worlds at once. This may be one of the reasons for the C&V system, it allows the unique vessels to stay in each CW or EK they belong to, and the crow to fly between them.

Edited by miraluna

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Because persistent bodies only exist because RPGs that require time investment (and profit from it) would not do well if there was permadeath.  Why C&V exists has never clearly been explained, though Blair did talk about gear and EKs having something to do with it (so it is interesting you brought up EKs because, apparently, C&V is in place in part because of EKs).  That being said, it has the heavy odor of EVE, lobby and hero shooter all over it.

 

In truth, a lot of CF is heavily influenced by mechanics with a thin veneer of lore over the top.  As much as I appreciate many of the features of CF--especially those revived after the long night of WoW clones--those features really didn't originally exist in a vacuum and were developed to reflect a world.  What ACE has done is to reassemble these features to create a crunch heavy game which they painted fantasy, and there's a big difference. 

 

So, to be clear, CF is a generally contrived game based on the reassembly of features/mechanics (past and some present) and the C&V system is simply the fridge nuke/shark jump that assures a death stroke to suspension of disbelief.  It is as if they walked right up to the edge, looked around and said, "Ah, custard it..." as they skipped over.  I say this, too, as a fan of the game and an admirer of the devs work. 

I fail to see how C&V is any more artificial than the handling of death, with persistent bodies, especially when full loot is involved.  Either you have the ghost that flies from the graveyard to the body, a body that miraculously heals itself of some of the injuries sustained, or you leave a corpse behind and respawn completely at the graveyard, with a new identical body.  Further, most games don't even describe anything about how your character avoids permadeath, especially in terms of why NPCs can die in the story, but you can't.  It is mostly just hand-waving (science or magic) and player acceptance because it makes the game more fun.

 

In terms of transfer between EK and CWs (which is one of the drivers in creating the C&V system), sure you could have had players just transfer naked, and either require the player remove all gear, or leave a little pile of gear on the ground or in a container near the transfer point.  Again, this isn't any less artificial then just leaving the vessel and traveling to the other world in the crow form.

 

But, focusing on those issues ignore some other things C&V can bring to the game. C&V opens up another economic vector to the game, which gives another thing to fight over, and another way in which you can try to gain an edge.  It opens up more diversity and experimentation in character customization via altering vessels (both in crafting and with disciples) allowing you to try out different things, and allowing the developers more freedom and flexibility to make interesting and powerful disciplines as they aren't permanent.

 

It is funny that the complaint is that the game is contrived.  All games are contrived, and honestly the C&V wrapper to these systems make a lot of sense, more sense to me than a lot of the more traditional wrappers that we just accept because we are used to them.

Edited by Bnol

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...

 

It is funny that the complaint is that the game is contrived.  All games are contrived, and honestly the C&V wrapper to these systems make a lot of sense, more sense to me than a lot of the more traditional wrappers that we just accept because we are used to them.

 

C&V is a bridge too far for some--it is simply removes remaining pretenses of world creation already stressed by existing impermanence (and you see that in threads like this and others).  Say what you will, but I doubt there is a gamer over 20 that doesn't recognize it for what it is--even if they think it is, overall, a great idea and defend it for its merits.      

 

If developing a MMORPG is an art, well then, lore (i.e., mythology, vision, immersion, narrative, identity, attachment, emotional impact, etc.) informs mechanics (even dominating them in the extreme); if it is a craft then lore is simply an excuse for solid mechanics.  Good games can be either, but great games are both.


The Artist Formerly Known as Regulus

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 lore (i.e., mythology, vision, immersion, narrative, identity, attachment, emotional impact, etc.

 

CF has the items in bold. Maybe not to the same degree as traditional mmos, but they aren't missing completely. The other items are not something devs can create themselves. The current "lore" most likely will grow over time and fits the current vision and over all design of the game. Be it lore or mechanics came first, if they work together, they work together.

 

I'm curious what the devs could do to help decrease the issue a few are having without devoting a lot of resources to something that ultimately doesn't impact gameplay at its core. Without questing, cut scenes, voice acting, typical PVE elements, what else is there? More backstory about the gods/archetypes and universe as a whole? In-game narrative items that spell everything out and remove the need to create a context of our own?

 

Considering they haven't even created or at least released all the archetypes nor the majority of the systems, I can't see them focusing on "lore" or other non essentials (to gameplay) currently or in the near future.

 

I look back with faded memories to early EQ and how limited its lore was, yet how people experienced the world. There was a basic history/lore to feed from, but overall it wasn't completely holding any hands, including RP fans. I didn't question giggling skeletons, endless spawning rats nor dragging my own corpse around.

 

As with most labels, it was probably a mistake to fall into the trap and ACE did so by calling CF a MMORPG. Because labels have baggage. It might be a MMORPG, but it is a unique concept on its own. Even if they called it a MmoRpgMobaRtsThingy, I'm sure folks would still have issues, but at least it is harder to point to X and set unrealistic expectations.

Edited by APE

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I did read in a recent Reddit AMA that we would be able to "subscribe" to 3 Campaign Worlds at once. This may be one of the reasons for the C&V system, it allows the unique vessels to stay in each CW or EK they belong to, and the crow to fly between them.

I thought they walked back on that. I wonder if one of the perks of VIP is allowing multiple campaigns.

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Why C&V exists has never clearly been explained,

 

It is because Todd likes to add a thematic narrative wrapper that explains the game mechanics.

 

For example, in many games there is no explanation for why death is almost meaningless. The designers don't even try to explain how their world works when nobody ever dies. When Todd made Shadowbane he put a lot of effort into incorporating player immortality in the story. The fact that nobody dies (anymore) is explained by the backstory.. Where people resurrect after death was explained by the details of that backstory.

 

In Crowfall, it was decided that campaigns would be temporary as a solution to a number of problems that come up in "throne war" sandbox PvP games. Mostly the Uncle Bob effect. So you have persistent players and guilds in the game fighting in episodic campaigns. How to explain that? Immortal champions that are sent from world to world-- dying worlds.

 

Further, and here I get into some real speculation, I think he decided to put a narrative wrapper on the unexplained truth that players tend to have more than one character. This usually goes completely unexplained in MMORPGs. The truth is, that Zen, Jah, and Zenjah are all the same guy, but that is ignored in the story. The Vessels and Crows brings that into the story. The Crow represents the player/account level. The Vessels represent the character level. There being two different levels is nothing new, but incorporating that into the story is new.

 

I think it is ironic that Todd's effort to add story elements to the game mechanics has people who are interested in story/RP up in arms. It is as though  people would rather ignore the immortality of their character and roleplay as though they are mortal than to figure out how to roleplay an immortal.

Edited by Jah

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It is because Todd likes to add a thematic narrative wrapper that explains the game mechanics.

 

For example, in many games there is no explanation for why death is almost meaningless. The designers don't even try to explain how their world works when nobody ever dies. When Todd made Shadowbane he put a lot of effort into incorporating player immortality in the story. The fact that nobody dies (anymore) is explained by the backstory.. Where people resurrect after death was explained by the details of that backstory.

 

In Crowfall, it was decided that campaigns would be temporary as a solution to a number of problems that come up in "throne war" sandbox PvP games. Mostly the Uncle Bob effect. So you have persistent players and guilds in the game fighting in episodic campaigns. How to explain that? Immortal champions that are sent from world to world-- dying worlds.

 

Further, and here I get into some real speculation, I think he decided to put a narrative wrapper on the unexplained truth that players tend to have more than one character. This usually goes completely unexplained in MMORPGs. The truth is, that Zen, Jah, and Zenjah are all the same guy, but that is ignored in the story. The Vessels and Crows brings that into the story. The Crow represents the player/account level. The Vessels represent the character level. There being two different levels is nothing new, but incorporating that into the story is new.

 

I think it is ironic that Todd's effort to add story elements to the game mechanics has people who are interested in story/RP up in arms. It is as though  people would rather ignore the immortality of their character and roleplay as though they are mortal than to figure out how to roleplay an immortal.

you just spoke my mind.

Im wondering too why RP fans are against a system that is most likely made for them. I gues people just hate the change in general. As they say haters gonna hate..... thats sad really.


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It is because Todd likes to add a thematic narrative wrapper that explains the game mechanics.

 

...

 

I think it is ironic that Todd's effort to add story elements to the game mechanics has people who are interested in story/RP up in arms. It is as though  people would rather ignore the immortality of their character and roleplay as though they are mortal than to figure out how to roleplay an immortal.

 

C&V is not a lore/RP excuse--it is a mechanic.  It is not the fluff-dressing that is the problem, because that would never had existed had it not been for the idea that somehow MMORPG players wanted "an additional economic vector" at the expense of further reduction in persistence, immersion, identity (and so on and so forth).  I do not think for a single second that Todd or any person at ACE said, "Well, you know what the problem is, don't you?  MMORPG players hate trying to wrap their minds around alts.  We need to fix that with a new feature!  Well, not a new feature per se, we'll borrow EVE's."   It is painfully obvious that the C&V system is lifted from EVE for reasons mechanical (and probably/potentially financial through new archetypes for sale in the future).  Todd did his best to shine it up all he could (props to him), but it is what it is.

 

 

you just spoke my mind.

Im wondering too why RP fans are against a system that is most likely made for them. I gues people just hate the change in general. As they say haters gonna hate..... thats sad really.

 

This systems was absolutely not made for most RP fans and to say so is oxymoronic.  In no possibly reality did Todd, et al. state, "You know what CF needs?  More RP friendliness, so let's add Crows and Vessels!"  Sure, Todd put the lore/RP on it (good for him) but that is not where it originated.  Also, see multiple posts which bring legitimate, well reasoned criticisms against this system since the "Big Reveal" (which, incidentally, ACE said that some of us were going to hate). 

 

Guys, guys, guys... let's just call it what it is.  You may like it and you may even like the RP implications of it--I'm happy for you.  However, that in no way changes its nature.  I wouldn't probably criticize it all had it been announced prior to my pledging because I probably would not have pledged.  I am not a hardcore RPer; I like my lazy RP tools.  That isn't to say I wouldn't have picked the game up later to scratch my Overwatchian itch, but I digress.   Yet, I have faith that ACE will do the best with it that they can, and I still hope that some CW rulesets will off set it a bit. 


The Artist Formerly Known as Regulus

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    I've been following Crowfall for some time now, I was a huge fan of ShadowBane and I love the hardcore aspects of Risk vs Reward.

Eve online, UO, ShabowBane, Mortal Online, SWG.  Ive always leaned more towards games with a penalty more than Xp/Equip degrade upon death. Full Loot drops, partial loot drops, destroyed ships...  Something were dying sucks, but still fun enough to make you go out and PvP.  Losing all your stuff isnt the greatest, but when you win, the reward is just that much better. I don't hate carebears, I just don't want the game to focus around them.  If they don't want to risk their items to get better items, then getting Legendary tier items should be out of their grasp.

 

 

When i first heard about Crowfall the game to me, sounded like a Multi Faction moba with a persistent universe always fighting for territory. You had your own kingdom where friends can come visit and you can set up shops, buildings and do what ever you want in your X by X land to an extent. When your Faction(or God) is battling for more control, you can enroll to various skirmishes varying from Carebear status to Full Loot deaths.

 

Looking at the game now, I am still excited to play and experience what this game has to offer; I am hesitant though. Vessels, Different Gods, I am trying to figure out how all that will play out.

 

     What i see the game being is:

 

You start the game as a Crow(soul ripped from hell/heaven) by various Gods that try to make you fight for them, then you choose your alliance to[more to the affect of how Factions are with Eve Online] . There would be Nine or more Gods all various back stories, affiliations with other Gods and each God would have two allies and two enemies[baha'i star]. Yet if you decide to choose a God you seem is awesome but your friend chooses a God that isn't affiliated with it, you could defect/apostate and join your friend, similar to being a freelance mercenary or sellsword.

 

The game would play similar to Guild Wars 2 or ESO PvP map, you would have multiple points of interest that needs to be taken. Some would be resources, that would periodically send shipments to the home base, Which could be intercepted by an enemy faction and stolen if not protected(this would give smaller groups that couldnt siege a point of interest a feeling of helping their cause) Some would be Garrisons that would periodically spawn fighters and siege weapons to push forward towards their enemy(but not being truly able to siege a fortified structure without Crows help). Others could be keeps that could lock down and send defenders back towards their allies.  A constant battle would be going; at a stand still until Crows get involved.

 

Vessels... i feel should play similar to Eve Onlines ships, you can outfit them, store them and can take them to battle. But if in a Hardcore skirmish, dying would mean losing them, the Crow would be expelled from the Vessel and the victor would be able to loot the spoils, only a limited amount of the dead Crows items should be able to be taken and the rest become broken scrap. This would cause problems.. Thus, items should be relatively easy to acquire, only legendary items should take time to get. When you first start the game, the Crow acquires a green tier vessel of their choosing. All white tier vessels should be free and available at their EK or the skirmishes home base. Unless the Skirmish type states otherwise. When acquiring a new vessel, they should also come equipped with standard gear so players can readily get back into battle.

 

    Yet I have no idea where the direction of the game is going since it is evolving every day with new ideas and concepts.

 

Sir this is a mcdonalds drive thru window


The most important thing is to enjoy your life - to be happy - it's all that matters. - Audrey Hepburn “:♡.•♬✧⁽⁽ଘ( ˊᵕˋ )ଓ⁾⁾*+:•*∴
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