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Mother_Fable

Are you planning on actually using the crow system?

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Intro: I'm daft in the head and often get the wrong end of the stick, so correct me please if I'm making wrong assumptions etc.

 

I was watching an interesting chat in Crowfall Discord about training up skills and stats etc, and it struck me that people were disregarding the Crow system, sure, certain disciplines / trainable skill trees make more sense for certain archetypes to have than others, but not once was it mentioned that training them were still worthwhile because in five minutes time, they WOULD BE another archetype.

 

So I was curious, sure most folks will find their happy most loved archetype and stick with it at launch, but given that archetypes might be backpack items, doesn't it make sense to swap as per your need. Ie: faster travel, stealth etc?

If this is right, am I alone in planning on swapping and changing often?


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I plan on using the system as I imagine many othes are. What remains to be seen is how I will use it. We don't know enough about swapping vessels atm to say to what extent they will be used; is swapping near-instantaneous or is there a cooldown or procedure involved? Will it take 5 minutes to successfully inhabit a vessel or 5 seconds?

 

Until we know just how it works we can only speculate as to how we'll do it. Once we know these things it'll be up to the individual to assess whether or not the utility of having multiple vessels in your inventory outweighs the risk of losing them in any particular scenario.


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Switching vessels won't be as instantaneous as Skyforge or Eden Eternal, they've said it in an interview last year, so you WILL have to go through some type of process. You won't be able to be a Legionnaire and switch to Assassin as soon as you see enemies inbound.


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But that process might be a channel for a certain duration while outside combat or can be changed at certain locations like towns or maybe even camp fires. Saying there will be a process is still pretty vague when it comes trying to predict if you will be stuck with one vessel or if bringing a back up will actually be effective.

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I think it's safe to say that it won't be instantaneous or allowable during combat (lol, did that druid just turn into a Minotaur?). The real question you should be asking is "Should anyone even care?"

 

What defines "as needed"? It's going to be your own opinion that decides if you need stealth versus whatever else and this might only be practical for long-time players because of the skilling system. I.E, if your training and skills make you a far better crusader than druid then that should heavily weigh on your choices. On the flip side, small scouting/hunting/raiding parties harassing/acting in advance of a siege become that much more effective; forcibly removing players from their preferred or most efficient archetype by dwindling their store of bodies might just be a viable tactic.

 

Frankly though aside from that catch my original question still kind of stands. Should you really care? It might be a problem if 90% of your guild decides to play druid, but that seems unlikely. If anything I'd expect only the most brutally competitive guilds to make a deal out of it and force members into what they need versus what they're good at so long as it remains viable (which will depend on how much a gap there is between a player who skills into an archetype and one who doesn't).

 

Since we don't really know what disciplines and all the extra customization stuff do, this might all be a moot point. We already know you can turn ranger into what is essentially a melee version of the class if you want. Supposedly some of the additional traits you can take allow you to wield a shield for humanoid professions or use pets. These might drastically change the playstyle of a class, or at least I'd assume, so even if you gave someone a crusader body they might very well be a different "crusader" than you had in mind.

 

I personally plan to stick with my favorite archetype whenever possible and get really good at it, but will ensure I can play at least two others well (Thanks, VIP!) to remain more, what, viable? Competitive? Whatever we want to call it.

Edited by Cerulean Shaman

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Without fear or haste, on bedding made of solitude and silence.

 

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One thing I don't think a lot of people are taking in is that the quality of a vessel is suppose to limit your skills too. So what if you get to a point where your skills are higher than your vessel can allow you to do? Will you keep leveling that archetype or will you try to level something different until you can get a better vessel? There is a lot more thought in this than just leveling one archetype to stay on top.

Edited by silhaku

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Switching vessels won't be as instantaneous as Skyforge or Eden Eternal, they've said it in an interview last year, so you WILL have to go through some type of process. You won't be able to be a Legionnaire and switch to Assassin as soon as you see enemies inbound.

 

IMO switching vessels should require returning to some form of Fortification or base for 15 seconds of "prayer" or something.  Concept taken from GW 1 where you had a host of skills and elite skills from which to pick, but only 8 equipable at any point in time.  When you needed to "reconfigure" your character you had to return to a town to do so, then head back out to tackle your challenge.

 

I'm not a fan of my character being a face-flipping "pokemon" out in the field, and a channeled change isn't going to change that opinion.  

 

I liked the way GW 2 altered the suite of skills available based on the weapon equipped.  That actually felt intuitive and natural, and added interesting dimension to my character.  So, my Mesmer had a different combat / capability profile between 2-Hand Broadsword and dual-wield.  But, at all times I was still a Mesmer.

 

@Cerulean Shaman

 

You ask a good question, "Should anyone really care?"

 

I guess it's a matter of viewpoint.  In my view it's a couple of things all tied together:  

 

A)  If the game is going to be hard core, slotting in ez-mode side-steps to consequences for decisions by players isn't great.  Allowing a complete Class-swap out on the map feels like a lot of "cheese" - camouflaged with the sales-pitch of "Crows and Vessels". 

  • Unless it's not going to work like that of course.  I've got some CF info searching to do today.

B.)  For myself, if it's going to work that way, it's entirely immersion breaking for me personally.  Part and parcel of having a favorite Class is coming to know how to surf both it's strengths and weaknesses in relation to others, and challenges.  That's part of the entire mystique to each of us HAVING a favorite class.  If I can Pokemon my way across a map, flipping entire class-masks on and off (even if channeled) . . . I feel more like I'm not playing the game and my character anymore.  It feels more like (to me) I'm an ACE tester just cranking code around testing stuff, cause I can use this nifty dev-tool to . . . efficiently . . . flip a test character's class data back and forth.

 

This is why (assuming what everyone is saying here is somewhat accurate, that we expect to flip our Class selection in the field) I prefer the idea of a return-to-a-base method.  It imposes some kind of consequence to picking a persona / class when you head out on the CW map.  That choice turn out to be problematic for some reason?  Suck it up, adapt, or go back and pray to the Pokemon God.

 

This might also (?) be an opportunity for a hard-core value to building fortifications.  CW opens up, everyone heads in . . . but everyone is class-locked until a home-base of some sort is built, with the relevant prayer-point completed.

Edited by Bramble

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I wouldn't mind either play style really. I think they will go with a system like you said where you have to go to some church or something and pray but no one knows if there will be poi's in the world like temples to go to or not. They said they would have graveyards which I would guess would be spawn points if you die.

 

And switching bodies isn't really immersion breaking in this game because you are a crow, not the bodies themselves. If someone left a empty ship out in space on eve you could get out your ship and take theirs if you pleased. It would sorta be immersion breaking if you couldn't do this.

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Given the fact that, if you use VIP, you'll be able to level different Archetypes simultaniously, I'd say that I'll use it.

Even if we have to go back to our camp/ a temple/whatever - and I don't really think so, because what would be the point then, transporting bodys in your bagpack? - but even then, it's useful. I'm currently on a scouting mission, I wanna be an assasin, or maybe a stalker.

By the time I get back to the base, my guildmates informed me that we'll have to bash someones head in for stealing our POI, and they'll need my healing hands....or thungerstorms. whatever.

It works in EdenEternal, I can't see why it wouldn't work here. It's a big part of the game :)


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Let me bring you a cup / Make a toast to the living / And a toast to the legends we share

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I'm hoping you won't be able to swap archetypes ie overwatch style. That would be real stupid. I'd personally like a long ass cool down associated with it.

Edited by helix

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From what I remember from the vessel reveal, the idea was that to activate a vessel (turn it from an item into your avatar) you would have to be at a Graveyard, those will be POIs. So I assume you can't just change vessels in the field, that would be pretty lame.

Edited by LGAllastair

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From what I remember from the vessel reveal, the idea was that to activate a vessel (turn it from an item into your avatar) you would have to be at a Graveyard, those will be POIs. So I assume you can't just change vessels in the field, that would be pretty lame.

 

Graveyards would be a good place for mass body switches in the field when needed but I think another method will be needed for people that don't have graveyards right next door to their HQ. Possibly some form of interactive alter that allows Crows to transfer from one vessel to the next. 

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One thing I don't think a lot of people are taking in is that the quality of a vessel is suppose to limit your skills too. So what if you get to a point where your skills are higher than your vessel can allow you to do? Will you keep leveling that archetype or will you try to level something different until you can get a better vessel? There is a lot more thought in this than just leveling one archetype to stay on top.

Honestly I'm REALLY hoping that they keep gear, and vessels (since to my understanding a vessel is just another piece of equipment) more to suit playstyle and not so much give a large advantage. For example if you like to play defensively you would have gear/vessel that increased health and stamina but you'd do less damage. I would go for something that gave me a large resource pool and perhaps above average recovery so I could sustain in long combat better. I've always preferred gear to have less impact in combat and more so enable you to play how you like to. If CF becomes a game that relies on perfect gear to be competitive at the top level, then I'm out.

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Really, we won't have a fix for this until the game releases. As it stands now, it might work or it might not. The devs also said they wanted this game to be more skill based anyways so having the levels still won't guarantee you'll win. It's just a advantage. If that does end up being the case, the passive training will work great imo because it will be there for diversity not as a necessity.

I don't think it would be a deal breaker if it is but this is how I'm hoping the skills and gear turn out.

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weight allowance on vessels will become a issue. It would be kind of hard to carry multiple bodies with a Guiney pig ...

I for one will be only leveling one arch type heavy and the rest of the skills will be going into crafting that arch type vessel.

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