Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
Eaden

Crafting: what will make you enjoy creating an item in CF?

Recommended Posts

We were having a conversation with Yoh in a different topic, about what would make crafting in CF revolutionary (let's not be afraid of saying it!). And we came to the point that one of our fear for crafting in CF would be that it may not be such a revolution, as it could be for all the other elements in CF.

 

Now, the true question is: what would make crafting per se cool? What would make crafting, the act of actually creating an object in Crowfall, interesting? Non linear? What would make it "never seen before"? What would make the continual (and repetitive) experience of crafting new and refreshing every time you craft something?

 

Here are some more:

Would it be a cool UI?

Would it be mini-games?

Would it be game-knowledge related?

Would it be game-achievement related?

Would it be skill-related?

 

 

Give us here your opinion. What would be your dream crafting element, that you may have, or may have not, seen yet that would push you to craft day and night without getting bored ever?

 

Be as specific as you can. Explain in details what you idea would be. The more precise, the easier it will be for ACE to come up with a prototype we may have the opportunity to test one day!

Edited by Eaden

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Minigames are a very good way to make the user hit alt+f4 and then go to netflix, so yeah please no. What would make crafting interesting for me is it being a job, that requires you to do a lot of things, like researching for the best combinations, getting some way to get the best ressources, managing your store and such things. The crafting process for actual putting stuff together is fine with having an interface, dragging stuff in the right place and then clicking combine or such.


c7nkddqc.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yea, please no mini-games in crafting, it's dumb.

 

In my opinion what makes crafting engaging is making a deep system that can't be mastered in a few hours reading a guide, that has many possible ways to be good and has high customization. ACE is already doing some of the things that make crafting like that, they are breaking it up in phases. So you have the "alloy phase" where you kind of melt and put materials together to form better materials. I hope we can also do that with other things beyond metals, but in different ways (obviously can't melt wood to make better wood, but there are other methods). Then we have the recipes where we add stuff to make the item, that includs an optional slot for "additives" that will increase complexity and number of combinations, and then the enchanting phase.

 

I think this is a good start point, and on paper already is a complex system, but if it will be in practice depends on many other factors:

 

 - How you obtain and transport materials. Not only the harvest system but also inventory space, is it worth to craft a few sword handles to transport them more easily than the raw materials? Or maybe turning metals into coins/ bars is better.

 - How itemization works in the game. And this ties in the skill development, discipline stone allocation and how versatile archetypes can be. All materials can really only be useful if all stats are useful to different character builds. If the game systems make critical hit chance a poor investment for example, any materials and combinations that adds crit will be useless or very unpopular. Cookie-cutter builds and simplified combat will have the same impact on crafting depth and complexity.

 - How to sell, buy and store materials as well as extra sets. We know things decay, we know people will get looted. How much work goes in managing this inventory? What are the possibilities for both guilded and unguilded crafters?

 

From what we know so far, I think they are in the right track. But we are just about to start testing crafting, so it obviously has a lot to evolve from now on.

 

Personally, something I would like to see is the possibility to create and cultivate certain materials. You can plant trees for wood, you can plant crops for food, it would be awesome to have these "artificial" resource nodes in the game, maybe inside or around castles in CWs. These would be group efforts that would take time and effort on maintaining, but would also be safe and rewarding if a group managed to pull it off. But those things are complex to add and come at later dates I suppose.

Edited by LGAllastair

KjUVOZg.png


Guild Leader/ High Elder

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm sharing the same feeling as YOH, I feel ACE will not put much effort to the gathering / crafting process besides some effort to create a satisfying group mechanic on top of a very clasic mechanic. If you haven't read most posts around this subject yet, this is a pvp game and not to upset that niche market Crowfall will not be the game to take risks with the crafting system.

 

I'm actually expecting more from CoE in that regard, be it some simple news about being able to create contracts, which is a very crude piece of news but could be a great mechanic given some work / attention. If crafting is your goal, I'd look for another game, unless pvp is your thing and you plan to join a guild and play this game at set times with others, versus a more casual "I'll play when i feel like it", which I feel will not get much love.


Dear ace, it was wrong of me to feel scammed, as time goes by, I realize that more and more. Thank you for letting me sell my account!

-a very satisfied customer-

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will take great pleasure knowing that some of the resources I pulled from the still twitching corpse of an enemy will allow me to make the glowing ring of supapowa and smitingness.

 

In short, using Shadowbane as an example - I kill someone, loot their corpse of the resources they gain, and go roll myself that +24stam ring.


"Proud" owner of the domains : http://www.crowfall2.com and http://www.guinecean.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They're taking the best aspects from SWG, Minecraft and UO and putting them together in Crowfall. They fixed the issues that SWG had with quality levels and kept all of the things that made it amazing. In my opinion, Crowfall has the best out-of-the-box crafting system that has ever been made for an MMO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes. I can see the appeal for the crafter profession there and so can many other people. I'm worried about there being enough gatherers though, since you can't really fight with them and you can't really make a name for yourself like a crafter. I wonder how many people will end up doing it in the end.


c7nkddqc.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes. I can see the appeal for the crafter profession there and so can many other people. I'm worried about there being enough gatherers though, since you can't really fight with them and you can't really make a name for yourself like a crafter. I wonder how many people will end up doing it in the end.

Probably everybody will be forced to gather in the beginning, not because they have to but, because everybody expects somebody else to harvest for them and then nobody will end up being a harvester.

 

Gankers take not, you probably want to make friends with every harvester you see instead of killing them haha

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Probably everybody will be forced to gather in the beginning, not because they have to but, because everybody expects somebody else to harvest for them and then nobody will end up being a harvester.

 

Gankers take not, you probably want to make friends with every harvester you see instead of killing them haha

 

Actually, I would not be surprise to see combat oriented players develop advanced harvesting abilities for when the fight is off.

 

Also, I would see something between pure crafter and pure fighters: traders / hawlers / gatherers. The link between the front and the back.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You're right, that's not what people want to do. What I'm saying is that if guilds don't have their own team of harvesters and crafters before the first campaign world, they won't make it very far without designating some. Even if you have all pvpers and your plan is to gank harvesters for resources, you're still going to be naked. Think of it like a strategy game. No matter how many units you have in the beginning, if you don't have the economy to increase your tech, you're just going to be stuck with a lot of useless units in the late game. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Otherwise they'd really need seconds accounts for the harvesting, if the harvesting job ends up being unattractive and can't convince people to do it in a fulltime way. In that case putting extra accounts into the campaign isn't a problem, because everyone will have to do it for the harvesting...


c7nkddqc.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

what i have seen so far in yesterdays livestream i think that i will enjoy the craftingsystem very much. There is so much to discover/experiment and you have nearly no limitations to try something out, even when you might don't have the skill level for a certain item you have still a very small chance to produce it. That's a thing what is impossible in other mmo's where you can't produce an item iif you have not the needed amount of skill. Additionally to mention is that your produced items are marked with your name so that everybody who has bought your item (f.e. a sword) knows that you are the creator of that thing. Another thing that i like is that nobody can produce everything ( at least for the first years of the game) so that you need other people / social interaction, this is an aspect which got lost in games like wow etc. for a long time where you can solo everything with success. I can imagine that this new crafting system and the player driven economy will creat a new spirit to the game and can lead in a great success of crowfall.


One Ring to Rule them all, One Ring to Find them, One Ring to bring them all an in the darkness and bind them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Of all the things I ever crafted in a game the one that I was most satisfied about was the language instructor pillow in Archeage.

 

Basically the different factions had differnet languages.. It wasnt possible to talk to your enemies unless oyu learned the language - the chat box jumbled it up. 

The language trnaslator pillow spawed a handsome npc to help you learn a little bit of the language every day. It took a lot of materials to craft but it was SO awesome when suddenly I could begin to understand and even communicate with enemies.

 

It was also an extremely useful tactical skill to have - allowed us to negotiate peace in the combat zones etc.. and work out grinding spots next to enemies tha otherwise would gank us.. but the sort of thing only the roleplayers considered worth the fuss since it was such a cost of resources and time to make and use.


www.CrowfallRP.com


Disclaimer: My RP with you might become a public story: https://soundcloud.com/shiv-mahon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yea, please no mini-games in crafting, it's dumb.

 

In my opinion what makes crafting engaging is making a deep system that can't be mastered in a few hours reading a guide, that has many possible ways to be good and has high customization. ACE is already doing some of the things that make crafting like that, they are breaking it up in phases. So you have the "alloy phase" where you kind of melt and put materials together to form better materials. I hope we can also do that with other things beyond metals, but in different ways (obviously can't melt wood to make better wood, but there are other methods). Then we have the recipes where we add stuff to make the item, that includs an optional slot for "additives" that will increase complexity and number of combinations, and then the enchanting phase.

 

I think this is a good start point, and on paper already is a complex system, but if it will be in practice depends on many other factors:

On your first point, you are just completely and utterly wrong, and so is everybody who thinks you can't have minigames.

A minigame is just a game within a game.  Like Gwint from the Witcher 3, or the several minigames from the Final Fantasy franchise, or even ones from the Legend of Zelda,  Anybody who thinks you can't have a game within a game and have it be fun or deep is wrong.

 

The question isn't whether or not it can be fun, but HOW.  And saying that you can't apply it to crafting, ie non combat, is utterly ludicrous. Of course you can, and it can be done well, again it's a question of how.

 

 

As to depth, while I do want a deep system, depth isn't always a good thing, not when it becomes overly complex.  As complexity restricts depth.

Look at Dwarf Fortress, amazingly deep game, but few people can get pass it's unbridled complexity and play it long enough to experience any of it's depth.

Same goes for engagement, your depth doesn't really matter if most people don't enjoy doing it long enough to experience any of the depth.

 

Like EVE Online, very deep game, tremendously boring to the vast majority of us.  If you like internet spreadsheets, standing around waiting for hours or days on end, look no further.

 

 

I don't want a crafting system that is merely deep, I want to have fun in it's moment to moment gameplay as well.  Anyone against that idea is literally against the idea of having fun.  I don't care if you want to call it a minigame or what, but I want a principle form of engagement in my crafting process beyond pressing a button and waiting like I'm playing with a freaken vending machine.

And honestly I'd take just about anything since anything is inherently better then nothing. (well, generally speaking)

 

I'd take a rhythm game like DDR, or an eye hand coordination game like Cooking Mama, even a match 3 game like Adventure Quest.

There are plenty of ways to make it engaging while still delivering on depth, and making it more of a skill based system rather then one governed by RNG.

I don't give a damn how deep crafting is if I won't have fun doing it.  And I already know in advance that standard MMO crafting mechanics (or lack there of) are bloody terrible.

There have been deep crafting systems before, there haven't been engaging ones. (not in mmos)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm sharing the same feeling as YOH, I feel ACE will not put much effort to the gathering / crafting process besides some effort to create a satisfying group mechanic on top of a very clasic mechanic. If you haven't read most posts around this subject yet, this is a pvp game and not to upset that niche market Crowfall will not be the game to take risks with the crafting system.

 

I'm actually expecting more from CoE in that regard, be it some simple news about being able to create contracts, which is a very crude piece of news but could be a great mechanic given some work / attention. If crafting is your goal, I'd look for another game, unless pvp is your thing and you plan to join a guild and play this game at set times with others, versus a more casual "I'll play when i feel like it", which I feel will not get much love.

Your just wrong.  Yes this game is a PvP game, that doesn't mean that direct player vs player is the only form of engagement or even the only form of PvP.

As competing via the market is a form of PvP, or the haves and have nots of gathering.  For some to have resources other don't, thus a form of PvP.

 

And saying that because it's non direct that therefore it should have no principle form of engagement is quite frankly silly.  Let me make this abundantly clear to you, no matter how much time or money they pour into combat it will be mediocre.  Combat is an unbelievable resource hog.  And when you have a massive world you simply can't also have fantastic combat as you would if you had a much more contained experience like a MOBA.

Which begs the question if you want just a direct PvP team experience, why not just play a MOBA?  Your undoubtedly going to get a better combat experience then anything this game will offer, not at launch at any rate.

They just don't have the team size or money to make it any more then that.  That's just the sad fact of reality.

 

So even if you are committed to the idea of PvP in a massive world like this, are you going to be content in ONLY combat being engaging?  Esp if that it is mediocre by general gaming standards.

 

I for one know in advance that I will not be satisfied by this games combat, period end of story.  And I believe this to be the case for a large number of players, who otherwise love the idea of the game, just not in practice.  Because in practice it's always the same, mediocre combat, large empty world with really nothing to do in it.  It's been done to death.

 

 

Which is exactly why I push for engagement on other fronts so heavily, because games built around things like crafting and no where near as resource hungry as an action combat system is.  There are far fewer standards and so you can get away with a lot more on a lot less.

And this should be esp prioritized in this game as the team have already stated that it is a core system, a primary role.  Why the hell would you have a primary role in the game not be fun?  Why would you spend the time and money only to turn around and think, "yeah we don't need this to be fun at all".

 

I find this approach to be hugely counter productive.  Since crafting is going to be a core primary role, integral to the PvP experience, then put some damn effort in and actually make it fun to play for once.  This is not a huge ask.

And people really have to stop making excuses as to why this cannot be so.  It can, it's been done in non MMO's before, it can be here, there is nothing stopping them.

Edited by yoh

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The combat will not be mediocre. It will be good, and diverse enough to have great fun for the years to come to my opinion.

 

Yes, it is not a 200+ FPS moba, nor a street fighter combo breaker, nor an Overwatch rock-paper-scisors. But it is good.

 

Now, I agree that everything else now has to be good too. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The combat will not be mediocre. It will be good, and diverse enough to have great fun for the years to come to my opinion.

 

Yes, it is not a 200+ FPS moba, nor a street fighter combo breaker, nor an Overwatch rock-paper-scisors. But it is good.

 

Now, I agree that everything else now has to be good too. :)

Based on what?  I'm sorry, but the preponderance of evidence simply doesn't support you.

Archage, Darkfall Online, EVE Online, Mortal Onlne, Starwars Galaxies, Ryzom, Xsylon, EarthRise, and many more.  All sandbox MMO's, all either mediocre combat or just out right terrible.  And this goes for most MMO's in general with only a handful of exceptions, and the only ones who have risen above had far, FAR larger budgets and teams then this one does.

 

What are they going to build combat out of kitten dreams and unicorn farts or something?

Good combat doesn't 'just happen', and it doesn't matter one lick how good it sounds on paper.  It's a process of excessive development and testing, or more charitably time and money.

Something they are simply in short supply of.  Esp with everything else they have planned.

 

When massive budget games fail to very good combat, how do you figure a game with a fraction of that budget is going to do much better?

I live in reality, and the sad fact of reality is that this kind of thing simply doesn't happen.

 

 

All you can do in accept that the combat isn't going to be the best and build around that expectation.  Given several more years of development post launch I'm sure it may very well be as good as we all hope it will be, but at launch that is simply too much to expect.  It's foolish to think otherwise.

 

Which is why I heavily advocate for additional core experiences being fleshed out and made engaging because they are not nearly as expensive as a good combat system is.  You'll get much more bang for you buck that way.

Edited by yoh

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...