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oridi

Sad Healer Is Sad. "light In Combat Healing"

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Reading today's update I saw the bit about incombat healing in the new FAQ's.

 

Combat healing effectively adds a multiplier to each combatant’s effective hit points. A defender isn’t just managing one health bar, his “effective” health pool is = his personal health bar * powers driven by the mana pool of every healer actively supporting him. This makes a lot of sense for games that focus around PvE combat where the monsters have thousands of hit points – especially raids.  It makes less sense in a game focused on skill-based player-versus-player combat.

We have characters that are more offensive. We have characters that are more defensive. We have characters with support powers. But we made the game purposefully light on in-combat healing, to make it more deadly.
 

 

This is sad to me. I keep hanging on to the idea that the game has not been defined clearly yet and so I shouldn't think that there's nothing in it for me but group healing is a major part of my enjoyment of faming and it looks like the game is being built more around solo PvP play and less around group PvP play.  No great moments of being a team prevailing against the odds - no turning the battle around with skills other than hack and slash.  Maybe the CC skills will be useful.

Territorial conquest and a player driven economy is the focus of the game and what that means is still being clarified - however we now know that there's no raids, no trinity, and so far no word of what there will be other than trying to get land and resources and PvP'ing.
It just seems like a nonstop brawl to me.

I still have hope for the crafting system.  If there's more to CF than just fighting each other and squatting on land I hope they let us know soon.

 


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The Chronicles of Crowfall           The Free Lands of Azure            RIP Doc Gonzo.

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I don't think you can conclude the game is being built around solo PVP. Just because a game is "light on in-combat healing" doesn't meant it still won't have meaningful group support options.

 

What I get from that quote is that the old-school "stand in the back spamming heals and playing health bar whack a mole" method doesn't really work in skill-based action combat. And it doesn't. But that doesn't mean you can't play meaningful group support. It really depends on what the support options will be in Crowfall, and we don't know that yet.

 

But I can say this much. I play support roles in many of the games that I play, because I enjoy that playsyle. And there is more to group support than just  "big heals". The role can be deeper than that, and I think it should be.

Edited by supernautilus

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The healing sounds like Warhammer Online / Wildstar healing to me, which is good. I don't see how you can say this game is being built around solo PvP. Been very clear that Crowfall is going to be very heavy into Sieges.

 

 

You want raids and holy trinity, you've got about 100 other MMO's with that.


 

 

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I'm pretty curious what they mean by this. Will we see something like GW2 where everyone is a little self sufficient but with no water combo fields and blast finishers for additional healing? Will support take on more of a damage prevention (shields, other sorts of buffs) and buff/debuffing role?

 

I'd imagine that most of healing will be limited towards actually having to hit your opponent, and less about standing behind your team and spamming 1.

 

This might mean with less dependable healing you might see less all-in aggression when it comes to group fighting, less chances being taken, and way more conservative train of thought. Perhaps way more fights that involve poking your opposing group, softening them up, and then maybe rushing them down. There are positives and negatives to this.

 

In GW2/ESO you generally would just have two balls of players colliding in to each other; fun but pretty sloppy.

Edited by helix

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These comments give me the Guild Wars 2 feels.

 

I'm fine with that answer from the FAQ.  I get the impression that you won't have a healer standing in the back, babysitting health bars.  As was discussed in other threads, the role will be more support and less pure healing.

 

Maybe the support role will contain more crowd-control options and damage mitigation tools, or small heal-over-time abilities.  I would be happy with this.


 

Sorry you turned into a two-bit carebear whose feelings get hurt over forum banter.

 

 

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I bet the "Support Role" will fill a similar role to the group healer just sans actual group healing. I hate to draw comparisons to MOBAs because I do not think this game is  a MOBA but MOBA support class often have heals. These heals won't prolong the fight, somebody is going to die, but a well timed heal can turn the tide of the battle. The ideology behind the PVP nature of MOBAs could be a good model for how the roles interact with each other. Most MOBA have PVE as well it's just not the primary motivator for skill building and selection.  


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The FAQ states that there are no instanced raids, but there could be open world bosses you need a large group to tango with.


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The idea of a conventional MMO healer makes sense when your teammates are never supposed to die, even against ridiculously overwhelming odds. In a full PvP game, someone's going to lose. That's just the nature of it. Having dedicated healers with the capability to massively extend another player's life expectancy (let alone an entire group of players) runs contrary to the whole idea of full PvP, and would unbalance the game like whoa.

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These comments give me the Guild Wars 2 feels.

 

I'm fine with that answer from the FAQ.  I get the impression that you won't have a healer standing in the back, babysitting health bars.  As was discussed in other threads, the role will be more support and less pure healing.

 

Maybe the support role will contain more crowd-control options and damage mitigation tools, or small heal-over-time abilities.  I would be happy with this.

I am not a fan of spamthetankwithhealzors healing either - and my fav healer is/was the Moria era Minstrel in LOTRO where the healers role was 1/2 healing and 1/2 buff/debuff/cc.  I do my best not to take discussions in threads as truth - no matter how many times people insist the game will be one way or another we just don't know a lot yet

 

But I did seige warfare in AoC and it's not about the heals in a seige it's about coordinating dps and controlling raged out players.  I am quietly trying out PvP in other games right now and solo PvP is not about heals it's about knowing the skills and thinking on your feet and having better gear.   I'm not seeing much need for any support roles in CF as it's defined right now.

 

'm hoping that you're right and there's the capability to have smaller teams that will allow for support roles that are more than just dps and smashing faces. 


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The Chronicles of Crowfall           The Free Lands of Azure            RIP Doc Gonzo.

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I am not a fan of spamthetankwithhealzors healing either - and my fav healer is/was the Moria era Minstrel in LOTRO where the healers role was 1/2 healing and 1/2 buff/debuff/cc.  I do my best not to take discussions in threads as truth - no matter how many times people insist the game will be one way or another we just don't know a lot yet

 

But I did seige warfare in AoC and it's not about the heals in a seige it's about coordinating dps and controlling raged out players.  I am quietly trying out PvP in other games right now and solo PvP is not about heals it's about knowing the skills and thinking on your feet and having better gear.   I'm not seeing much need for any support roles in CF as it's defined right now.

 

'm hoping that you're right and there's the capability to have smaller teams that will allow for support roles that are more than just dps and smashing faces. 

 

Yet you make this topic? Saying "looks like the game is being built more around solo PvP play and less around group PvP play"

Edited by zault

 

 

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I love running a healer, but you've all had the experience where your tank is mindlessly charging into battle without watching his/her own health bar  and making the assumption that you will keep him healed (even when you're out of mana).  All you become is a bot healer.

 

What if instead each person needs to be aware of their own health and power.  As a support player, you can give them boosts, but they will ultimately be responsible for their life and death.

 

I think I like the idea.

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I love running a healer, but you've all had the experience where your tank is mindlessly charging into battle without watching his/her own health bar  and making the assumption that you will keep him healed (even when you're out of mana).  All you become is a bot healer.

 

What if instead each person needs to be aware of their own health and power.  As a support player, you can give them boosts, but they will ultimately be responsible for their life and death.

 

I think I like the idea.

 

Amen! People are going to have to choose positioning and tactics wisely. No more mindless Mino Meat calling for focus heals by three priests and running to the back of the stack when targeted by the opposing force. I like it alot... Also... no tab targeting! Woo Hoo!


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I love running a healer, but you've all had the experience where your tank is mindlessly charging into battle without watching his/her own health bar  and making the assumption that you will keep him healed (even when you're out of mana).  All you become is a bot healer.

 

What if instead each person needs to be aware of their own health and power.  As a support player, you can give them boosts, but they will ultimately be responsible for their life and death.

 

I think I like the idea.

 

Eh, that's walking a fine line back to the tired 'playing solo with a bunch of people' design.

I thought there'd be more reasons the game design would encourage people to play together, you know bring a healer, etc.

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Healing can still work in action orientated combat like how they did in TERA, I really liked the missile targeting system for direct heals and everything else just being aoe healing with spells that vary on the location of w/e they were casting. The addition of a healer to me felt like it added a new layer of depth to combat by increasing the intensity of combat, target focusing, and teamwork, I'd prefer it if they didn't downplay the role of healers, but if they claim to keep some aspects of the holy trinity; hopefully the role of the support would be compensated with something interesting :).


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I hope they take a better support approach than gw2. While some effects were nice like Area denial skills, the small duration of buffs you could give made you feel almost useless. Not only that, the game devolved into who has the biggest zerg and synergy outside some combos was pretty much not there. There's nothing wrong with personal responsibility, but I want to feel that my support has in impact in the battle rather than just "yay 5 people has 3 seconds of regeneration buff". More than a mass of solo players going for 1 objective, healing helps create a group mentality and dependency that unfortunately is all but gone in most recent and upcoming mmos. Which is why I'm here in line with Crowfall's moto of finding something that is not out there yet.

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Healing can still work in action orientated combat like how they did in TERA, I really liked the missile targeting system for direct heals and everything else just being aoe healing with spells that vary on the location of w/e they were casting. The addition of a healer to me felt like it added a new layer of depth to combat by increasing the intensity of combat, target focusing, and teamwork, I'd prefer it if they didn't downplay the role of healers, but if they claim to keep some aspects of the holy trinity; hopefully the role of the support would be compensated with something interesting :).

They've dismissed the trinity pretty firmly and are going with skill based no levels.  Which works but does make the game seem like it's a bunch of solo players running around with builds that don't mesh enough to fight effectively at anything other than solo.

 

There is the thought tickling at the back of my mind though that what if players guilded up and specced their characters with the good of the whole in mind?  What if the cooperation and sheer skill of fighting in a team started before the battles even did - what if folks got together and talked about what was needed for survival while running as a group for resources and then built their characters to support that.  Maybe the game does not have to be just a bunch of players running around with the people and groups with the most dps autowinning. 

 

It would mean a hell of a commitment from the players and a strong desire to prevail - stronger than the want to build your character to dominate in solo PvP.  But it would make a team - and the more I think about it that's what upset me the most about the light incombat heals thing.  I want to be a part of a team - I want to not just pull my weight but turn the tide of battle and in the past that's been done by healing.   Perhaps there's another way to have that team experience even with LIH's.


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The Chronicles of Crowfall           The Free Lands of Azure            RIP Doc Gonzo.

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They've dismissed the trinity pretty firmly and are going with skill based no levels.  Which works but does make the game seem like it's a bunch of solo players running around with builds that don't mesh enough to fight effectively at anything other than solo.

 

There is the thought tickling at the back of my mind though that what if players guilded up and specced their characters with the good of the whole in mind?  What if the cooperation and sheer skill of fighting in a team started before the battles even did - what if folks got together and talked about what was needed for survival while running as a group for resources and then built their characters to support that.  Maybe the game does not have to be just a bunch of players running around with the people and groups with the most dps autowinning. 

 

It would mean a hell of a commitment from the players and a strong desire to prevail - stronger than the want to build your character to dominate in solo PvP.  But it would make a team - and the more I think about it that's what upset me the most about the light incombat heals thing.  I want to be a part of a team - I want to not just pull my weight but turn the tide of battle and in the past that's been done by healing.   Perhaps there's another way to have that team experience even with LIH's.

 

 

I hope they have area of effect healing.  That way we can focus the healing on the front wave.   Tanks will need to be mindful of the AOE and move towards it.

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