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Sad Healer Is Sad. "light In Combat Healing"

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I would like to see is barriers, life on hit buffs, defensive buffs, debuffs on players and mobs, lots of cc, misdirection of damage (taking damage from one player and funneling it to another), and other support type of skills since just straight up "heal stick" healing is not a factor.


Between dreams and reality.


Lantern Watch

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I hope they have area of effect healing.  That way we can focus the healing on the front wave.   Tanks will need to be mindful of the AOE and move towards it.

The combat is not direct targeting (no tab targeting and it will use paths of damage like cones and circles etc.) so it's very likely that heals will follow the same logistical setup.  I think what heals there are will be aoe since there's no targeting built into the system from the combat.


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The Chronicles of Crowfall           The Free Lands of Azure            RIP Doc Gonzo.

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I hope they take a better support approach than gw2. While some effects were nice like Area denial skills, the small duration of buffs you could give made you feel almost useless. Not only that, the game devolved into who has the biggest zerg and synergy outside some combos was pretty much not there.

 

Maintaining and stacking buffs were a group effort. I usually had 6+ boons up on me at all times (outside of strips and converts)due to various things (Shouts, Fields + Blast finishers). WvW was a numbers game, just like any faction based combat eventually turns in to. I wish there was more room for smaller groups but the placement of objectives and the size of the maps is what really hurt that.

Edited by helix

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They've dismissed the trinity pretty firmly and are going with skill based no levels.  Which works but does make the game seem like it's a bunch of solo players running around with builds that don't mesh enough to fight effectively at anything other than solo.

 

There is the thought tickling at the back of my mind though that what if players guilded up and specced their characters with the good of the whole in mind?  What if the cooperation and sheer skill of fighting in a team started before the battles even did - what if folks got together and talked about what was needed for survival while running as a group for resources and then built their characters to support that.  Maybe the game does not have to be just a bunch of players running around with the people and groups with the most dps autowinning. 

 

It would mean a hell of a commitment from the players and a strong desire to prevail - stronger than the want to build your character to dominate in solo PvP.  But it would make a team - and the more I think about it that's what upset me the most about the light incombat heals thing.  I want to be a part of a team - I want to not just pull my weight but turn the tide of battle and in the past that's been done by healing.   Perhaps there's another way to have that team experience even with LIH's.

 

This. I like new, I remember being lost in SB at the start. What's a "spec group"? The fact is people will have to figure out what works best together in different situations, in what looks to be a myriad of available builds. I think it's awesome, and not a collective of 1v1 combat. Those that can discover and adapt will thrive.


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I'm a support player half the time as well. I'd rather help the team get the victory than be the dps monster.

 

Sure, GW2 got rid of healers. But most of their stuff is either game content or instanced arenas in which even numbers are guaranteed. They don't seem to be dependent on arenas here, so this sounds like a +1 for the zerg. With no healer to keep a more skilled group a live, numbers can just overwhelm. And they don't even need to worry about who's playing healer.

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They've dismissed the trinity pretty firmly and are going with skill based no levels.  Which works but does make the game seem like it's a bunch of solo players running around with builds that don't mesh enough to fight effectively at anything other than solo.

 

There is the thought tickling at the back of my mind though that what if players guilded up and specced their characters with the good of the whole in mind?  What if the cooperation and sheer skill of fighting in a team started before the battles even did - what if folks got together and talked about what was needed for survival while running as a group for resources and then built their characters to support that.  Maybe the game does not have to be just a bunch of players running around with the people and groups with the most dps autowinning. 

 

It would mean a hell of a commitment from the players and a strong desire to prevail - stronger than the want to build your character to dominate in solo PvP.  But it would make a team - and the more I think about it that's what upset me the most about the light incombat heals thing.  I want to be a part of a team - I want to not just pull my weight but turn the tide of battle and in the past that's been done by healing.   Perhaps there's another way to have that team experience even with LIH's.

 

So much this.  Building with your guild/community in mind.  The best PvP isn't solo, it's group effort, and I think that's what a lot of the SB alums are perceiving when they talk about what this game could be.


"Darken the moon and conceal the stars; our Light will never be extinguished." - The Tome of the First Flame

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I feel that there will be just as much content where we will be required to use a team as any.

 

Support roles are vital to a team. Just because healing won't be a main priority will mean that buffs and debuffs will become far more important to team PvP.


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what game has ever had a viable population of dedicated healers when those healers were required?

 

personally I think every "class" should have forms of "support".  no class should be a "pure dps" as it leads so everyone assuming the pure dps should have the most dps and everyone is running that class.  because guess what, the majority of people want to smash things (I know not anyone here because you're all unique special snowflakes).


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Light healing means that a small group needs to hit first and fast (and utterly destroy) the zerg in a nano second, otherwise they have no chance of surviving the random firepower output of the zerg without heals. :(

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I would like to see is barriers, life on hit buffs, defensive buffs, debuffs on players and mobs, lots of cc, misdirection of damage (taking damage from one player and funneling it to another), and other support type of skills since just straight up "heal stick" healing is not a factor.

 

This is something I would be Ok with

 

Maintaining and stacking buffs were a group effort. I usually had 6+ boons up on me at all times (outside of strips and converts)due to various things (Shouts, Fields + Blast finishers). WvW was a numbers game, just like any faction based combat eventually turns in to. I wish there was more room for smaller groups but the placement of objectives and the size of the maps is what really hurt that.

 

Gw2 group buffs affected 5 targets at most and almost anyone and everyone had access to those not to mention a personal heal, there was no real strategy behind it. Stack; use buffs/field finishers; run in; run out, repeat. It was still blob vs blob with no priority targets (other than commanders) and the system was fairly limited with the low amount of buffs present that all classes could provide. The sense of contribution is clearly not the same as healers and 1 of the downfalls of gw2 WvW was precisely the lack of healers/real support. imagine that with healing present a small group could hold a larger on until reinforcements arrived, forcing more pvp fights rather than the base trading wvw became.

 

Light healing means that a small group needs to hit first and fast (and utterly destroy) the zerg in a nano second, otherwise they have no chance of surviving the random firepower output of the zerg without heals.  :(

 

 

Exactly.

Edited by Crowfan

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Light healing means that a small group needs to hit first and fast (and utterly destroy) the zerg in a nano second, otherwise they have no chance of surviving the random firepower output of the zerg without heals. :(

 

How would a small group take out a zerg in a game with heavy healing?

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I'm a support player half the time as well. I'd rather help the team get the victory than be the dps monster.

 

Sure, GW2 got rid of healers. But most of their stuff is either game content or instanced arenas in which even numbers are guaranteed. They don't seem to be dependent on arenas here, so this sounds like a +1 for the zerg. With no healer to keep a more skilled group a live, numbers can just overwhelm. And they don't even need to worry about who's playing healer.

Right now it looks like numbers and ping will pick the winners and losers in fights. Action combat does not mean you are "skilled" if you are fighting some one that has a greater ping than yours, you have an artificial advantage built in. I play GW2 WvW and even with "Tab Targetting" in that game without dedicated healers all the Large fights turn into Zerg A runs into Zerg B and then zergs start running in circles chasing each other like Orobouros the snake, trying to kill each others tail. With Action combat that is guaranteed to be the case here because from 1v1 all the way to groups if you target me I'll start running to the side to get behind you forcing you to try and match my spinning around. Person/Group that can keep the other side in view while breaking view of the other wins. 

what game has ever had a viable population of dedicated healers when those healers were required?

 

personally I think every "class" should have forms of "support".  no class should be a "pure dps" as it leads so everyone assuming the pure dps should have the most dps and everyone is running that class.  because guess what, the majority of people want to smash things (I know not anyone here because you're all unique special snowflakes).

Shadowbane

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How would a small group take out a zerg in a game with heavy healing?

Better group makeup, Better target calling, better Strategy and a little game mechanic called Shadowmantle:

 

 

Shadow Mantle[edit]

Healthdrain_cam.png "Single Target Healing Black Mantle"

requires Shadowmastery Skill ( 97 )

Granted: Level 42

Focus Skill: Shadowmastery

Mana Cost: 55 to 95 (at power ranks 0 to 40).

Casting Time: 3 seconds

Recycle Time: 10.0 seconds

Requires Hit Roll: No

Target and Range: Monsters or Players (100 Units).

Can affect caster and group members.

Effects:

  • Target cannot be targeted by spells of type 'Heal' at or below your Mantle's spell rank.
  • Duration: :30 to 2:00 minutes (at power ranks 0 to 40).
  • Stack Category: BMHealing
  • Stack Rank: 0
  • Stack Rule: Standard (When stack categories and ranks are equal, then the most recently cast spell will only succeed if its spell power is greater than or equal to the existing spell's power).

 

This was done all the time in Shadowbane, you would find sieges where 50 beat 200 to 300, you would find mine fights where a good 10 man group wrecks 30 to 40. Just look at some of the SB videos from back when the minimaps showed the enemy on them (Dark blue dots. Here is an example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akI_pDEcjMU

 

There was 20 of us on the wall with slightly over 10 melee on the ground below us, now watch how many dark blue dots rush in and the doesn't even count the second nation attacking us from the north (Dark blue dots there, name MQ in the chat). That fight lasted 6 hours and our 30 beat the 100 man zerg and the 20 MQ that crashed.

Edited by gauis

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I feel that there will be just as much content where we will be required to use a team as any.

 

Support roles are vital to a team. Just because healing won't be a main priority will mean that buffs and debuffs will become far more important to team PvP.

 

The term "healer" carries many assumptions with it. Which we wanted to avoid.

 

The intent for support to have key buffs, debuffs, physics related powers at a cost of damage or defensive is exactly what we want to do. That isn't to say in the Discipline Runestones (or combination of Disciplines) there won't be healing, it's really hard to predict. There just won't be a primary Archtype devoted to it.


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The term "healer" carries many assumptions with it. Which we wanted to avoid.

 

The intent for support to have key buffs, debuffs, physics related powers at a cost of damage or defensive is exactly what we want to do. That isn't to say in the Discipline Runestones (or combination of Disciplines) there won't be healing, it's really hard to predict. There just won't be a primary Archtype devoted to it.

Will I be able to gank people as an Assassin?

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The term "healer" carries many assumptions with it. Which we wanted to avoid.

The intent for support to have key buffs, debuffs, physics related powers at a cost of damage or defensive is exactly what we want to do. That isn't to say in the Discipline Runestones (or combination of Disciplines) there won't be healing, it's really hard to predict. There just won't be a primary Archtype devoted to it.

Good to hear this. I'm looking forward to learning more about the archetypes and the Disciplines.


Between dreams and reality.


Lantern Watch

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Keep in mind they said light pvp healing. There are other methods of supporting your team. Reducing the enemies movement speed, damage, (debuffs), buffing your own team, and using what limited heals that are available. It's impossible to say how viable a support role will be, but I wouldn't throw in the towel just yet until there are more details. 


The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.

- Nietzsche

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With no instanced PvP, you can't guarantee an even numbers fight. 5 vs 7? Fine. 10 vs 15? Fine. 20 vs 40? ehhhh. 50 vs 100? Light healing won't over come that number gap.

 

You can buff/debuff all day but when 100 people are raining down on you and your assets when you have 2:1 odds? It doesn't become something worth sticking around for. Are there other anti-zerg mechanics than a healer? Absolutely. But this is the first mechanic I've seen so far that rewards the zerg. Label me a carebear or "pvp'er? you ain't hardcore bruh" for all I care. But I was there at SB launch and I know what helped kill that game's launch. Zergs destroy games. Massive or relative, doesn't matter.

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With no instanced PvP, you can't guarantee an even numbers fight. 5 vs 7? Fine. 10 vs 15? Fine. 20 vs 40? ehhhh. 50 vs 100? Light healing won't over come that number gap.

 

You can buff/debuff all day but when 100 people are raining down on you and your assets when you have 2:1 odds? It doesn't become something worth sticking around for. Are there other anti-zerg mechanics than a healer? Absolutely. But this is the first mechanic I've seen so far that rewards the zerg. Label me a carebear or "pvp'er? you ain't hardcore bruh" for all I care. But I was there at SB launch and I know what helped kill that game's launch. Zergs destroy games. Massive or relative, doesn't matter.

I agree. Zergs are no fun. We still don't know enough though. I am sure they have ways to counter zergs.

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The term "healer" carries many assumptions with it. Which we wanted to avoid.

 

The intent for support to have key buffs, debuffs, physics related powers at a cost of damage or defensive is exactly what we want to do. That isn't to say in the Discipline Runestones (or combination of Disciplines) there won't be healing, it's really hard to predict. There just won't be a primary Archtype devoted to it.

 

This gives me the impression of things like knockdowns and knockbacks, or creating a wall to block projectiles or halt forward movement.

 

I like these ideas.


 

Sorry you turned into a two-bit carebear whose feelings get hurt over forum banter.

 

 

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