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oridi

Sad Healer Is Sad. "light In Combat Healing"

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I understand wanting to play a support class for sure, just like Zoguul above me said, but I honestly think people are just giving up too early. They said there will be SOME type of limited healing, and as far as the GW2 thing it's going to be nothing like it. There is hardly any collision amungst people, and objects.

 

As for the unfair battle numbers, I think people should get over the idea of things being fair. Not everything is fair in combat, and if you think in terms of ACTUAL warfare in the real world you'd remember that it's always been that way. If a legion of 20 romans rolled up on an encampment of 5 bandits, or Germanic warriors there would be unfair numbers. That is just the way it worked, and still works in school yard fights today. Broaden your horizons, and think about the more awesome aspects of that type of situation. What if the 5 guys are insanely more prepared, awesome, coordinated than the 20. Suddenly, the 20 men find their overconfidence as an issue as the 5 guys working together methodically take them down 1 by 1. All of a sudden the odds are tipped differently, and now the remaining men find the morale dropping to the ground because combat didn't go the way they thought it would due to numbers.

 

This is obviously a hypothetical, but think about it how awesome it would be to be the 5 guys who built their characters to manage such situations and coming out on top. It would be a story to tell people from that point on.


“The difference between the quest for the Holy Grail and someone saying ‘bring me a cup’ is the flavor text and the number of stops involved.”
― Bryan Fields

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Get skilled baby no primary healer here to hold anyone hands, you want to wear glass then explode like it. I love GW2 class system and thar is zero need for one as well its more then possible to sustain even just yourself for a longtime and possible to sustain your group as well through support skills and more importantly through your own player skill. I personally always felt healers carried baddies way too much anyway or nibs who just want to wear full glass and not suffer the consequences for doing so.

 

That being said i got NOTHING against support classes i personally played a Guardian in GW2 and as a leader in my raid i maid sure just about everything i had synergies with my group from heals to damage mitigation skills etc. And as a roamer i made sure i had enough mobility escape and sustain to get away from a zerg while still being able dish enough damage sometimes even close to glass to fight outnumbered.I just feel thar is no need for a healer class. That being said after reading the combat FAQ for this game im extremely happy with what i see and i hope healers give this game a shot i know you will find a class you enjoy here. I know alot of healers that switched to GW2 and found peace with it and found a class that they felt supported thar allies in a substantial way,Being mostly a healer isnt the only way to support a group. For those wondering how you could do dps heal support your groups etc, take a look at the elementalist or guardian in GW2 in a organized WvW(RvR) guild. Its because those skilled Eles and Guards supporting thar guild with heals and other support skills that they are able to fight outnumbered along with thar tactics and such.

 

VoTF guild considered the top guild in GW2 for a very long time I know it can be a lil hard to see what might be going on if you havnt played GW2 but anyone with experience in a guild like this can vouch for the importance of support skills and how far they can take you. My point isnt to hype gw2 but rather to show a working example of why support skills are much better then having a "healer" imo. Not to mention in a raid type environment those classes also do a good amount of damage :)


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I mean that in real battle you don't have enough time to "heal", at least some pills, bandages etc. I think that's why developers decided to don't build bishops, restor druids or smthing like this.

 

I have played a lot with pure heal champs)

 

In a real battle you don't shoot fireballs and usually you die with a blow to the head... This is a fantasy game, and usually its someone other than the dps thats doing the healing since they typically dont do both -_-

Edited by cuddlesthepanda

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Sugoi - Student Council President

 

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Think MOBAs where there are very few powerful heals, but lots of ways to support with shields and CC.

 

MOBAs are a rigid system of checks and balances (not perfect) within a lab-like environment.  MMO PVP should not be compared or modeled after League of Legends or DOTA.  Open PvP is chaotic, unpredictable and almost never a fair fight.  Solid Healing is the most reliable way a smaller force can challenge and win against a larger force.

 

We have one glaring example in Guild Wars 2 where this design has already failed on an epic scale.  


The Mithril Warhammers

Hammers High!

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I'll just copy and paste what I said in another similar thread. 
 
TL;DR: I think healers and tanks should give this game a shot. I don't think they'll make the same mistakes GW2 did and will really be making you a PvP game where the lack of a trinity is a boon, not a hindrance to your fun. You'll have more ways than just replenishing a green bar to support your allies now. 
 

 

It's different and people don't like change in general, so of course this won't sit well at first with folks who are coming from a background where they were hard coded healers for years prior to this. That is understandable and fine, but I think if you guys played any MOBA you would think differently about supporting as a role vs healing as a role. I played WoW for too many years to mention with success as each of the three trinity roles before I got into League of Legends(and some Dota, but I always felt like Dota was clunky). A DPS felt just like a Healer to me and a tank felt like being either of the other roles except I was now concerned with my own health bar and instead of using cooldowns to prevent my allies from dying or to do optimal DPS* I was using them to prevent myself from taking more damage than could be reasonably healed. 

 

In League of Legends, I found that support was all around more satisfying than mashing heal buttons to increase my allies green bar. Some supports have heals, but you are really there to help your allies succeed with damage, control, and mitigation. You have much more interesting abilities in a PvP game because you aren't fighting a preset AI that does the same thing every time you encounter it. In PvP games such as a MOBA you have abilities that can initiate fights, disengage fights, scout, and more - It's just an all around different playing field. If Crowfall can do this correctly(GW2 failed at it, sadly) I believe that the lack of a holy trinity will be nothing but a boon that makes the game truly interesting. 

 

For those of you who come from other games playing tanks or healers I think you are denying yourself the chance to really show off your skill and adaptability if you drop the game before giving it a chance to be done correctly. Forget what GW2 did and look to the future where you are playing a game solely designed around PvP where they don't make the same mistakes other developers made. You might just find something that you really enjoy. 

 

*Yes, I'm aware that DPS also use cooldowns to keep themselves alive. 

 

Edited by Bain

Winter is coming. 

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If the support classes in CF are like that then in my opinion we're good to go.  Give a man a heal he'll be alive for a moment, give him buffs, cc, shields, life on hit, debuff enemies, etc. and he'll be able to fight for a lifetime.

^This.  If we can get a support class that will allow us to influence the fight and the survival of our teammates then I'm in.  If I have to spend the bulk of my time doing dps and hitting them there bad guys with a few skills tossed off every few minutes or so that may or may not make a difference - well there's not much fun in that for me. 

 

I know some players can't wrap their heads around what may be fun about playing a support class.  For me it's about a much larger view of the battle.  Rather than focusing on one person I'm fighting, I'm aware of my whole team and how things are going as well as the enemies around us.  I am balancing how long a stun will last on an enemy trying to join a group of 4 piled on the tank against the suddenly aggro'd ranged teammate who needs something to protect him fast.  I don't look at just one thing in the fight - I'm aware of the group and the overall flow of what is happening.  It's challenging and difficult and I think in PvP it's going to be insane because people fight much better than AI's. 

 

Yes, I'm quietly training my lil snowflake self in PvP basics but I'm never going to be top drawer uber duber wipe the field PvP Goddess of KillzUDed. My brain, my responses, my logic, my lack of inbattle panic, all are honed for support.  Crowfall - you need to have a place for folks like me in the game.


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The Chronicles of Crowfall           The Free Lands of Azure            RIP Doc Gonzo.

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If the support classes in CF are like that then in my opinion we're good to go.  Give a man a heal he'll be alive for a moment, give him buffs, cc, shields, life on hit, debuff enemies, etc. and he'll be able to fight for a lifetime.

 

Exactly. This is awesome news for support classes. You're free to be so much more now than just a heal-bot.

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Yes, I'm quietly training my lil snowflake self in PvP basics but I'm never going to be top drawer uber duber wipe the field PvP Goddess of KillzUDed. My brain, my responses, my logic, my lack of inbattle panic, all are honed for support.  Crowfall - you need to have a place for folks like me in the game.

 

It comes with time.  Drink plenty of caffeine, eat some raw red meat before your gaming session.  Soon you will learn to jab and stab in-between casting heals.

 

#ForumPvP


 

Sorry you turned into a two-bit carebear whose feelings get hurt over forum banter.

 

 

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The idea of a conventional MMO healer makes sense when your teammates are never supposed to die, even against ridiculously overwhelming odds. In a full PvP game, someone's going to lose. That's just the nature of it. Having dedicated healers with the capability to massively extend another player's life expectancy (let alone an entire group of players) runs contrary to the whole idea of full PvP, and would unbalance the game like whoa.

 

Haha, what?  


The Mithril Warhammers

Hammers High!

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Is the role of a military combat medic not similar to that of a dedicated support class in an MMO?

 

Not that I've spent time in the military, but my understanding is that the combat medic's primary role is the care and safety of wounded soldiers.  He carries a weapon, but is instructed to only engage in combat when he must protect someone under his care (or his own life I assume).

 

Sounds pretty MMO-healerish to me.

 

In actual combat you're throwing some quik-clot on a wound or a tourniquet on an extremity, there is no complete heal irl. Causalities then become a hindrance to advance, depending on severity. You're trying to keep them stable and alive until transfer can be made to a high echelon of care via a medivac. It'd be like getting into one fight, your tank is now turned to stone, and the rest of your party has to carry him on a litter until another group can clear down to take him for you, now go fight the boss goblin without a tank. Also instead of constantly watching HP bars, the cleric is sleeping on the gear listening to an iPod. The number one things medics do is tell guys to take Motrin and change their socks, so.. small heal over time spells maybe?

 

Then again, there are no dragons, goblins, and centaurs irl either so this comparison is fairly moot.

Edited by flex

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In actual combat you're throwing some quik-clot on a wound or a tourniquet on an extremity, there is no complete heal irl. Causalities then become a hindrance to advance, depending on severity. You're trying to keep them stable and alive until transfer can be made to a high echelon of care via a medivac. It'd be like getting into one fight, your tank is now turned to stone, and the rest of your party has to carry him on a litter until another group can clear down to take him for you, now go fight the boss goblin without a tank. Also instead of constantly watching HP bars, the cleric is sleeping on the gear listening to an iPod. The number one things medics do is tell guys to take Motrin and change their socks, so.. small heal over time spells maybe?

 

Then again, there are no dragons, goblins, and centaurs irl either so this comparison is fairly moot.

 

Goblin combat medic with small HoTs confirmed as next archetype?


 

Sorry you turned into a two-bit carebear whose feelings get hurt over forum banter.

 

 

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i'd play that

 

It does sound appealing, doesn't it.  And it rolls off the tongue easily.

 

I would likely play it too!


 

Sorry you turned into a two-bit carebear whose feelings get hurt over forum banter.

 

 

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I can't help but get this overwhelming feeling of crowfall simply being a GW2 meets Wildstar now, with a few instanced servers for full loot.

Don't give up yet!  I know that the boards have their ideas about what the game is about but we don't have enough info yet.

 

Stick with us.  It very well could be worth it.


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The Chronicles of Crowfall           The Free Lands of Azure            RIP Doc Gonzo.

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GW2 took a similar approach to eliminating a "healer".  There were defensive spec'ed classes still, but the massive amounts of friendly healing were significantly reduced from other games, including GW1.

And it was the single worst thing they did to the game. Dungeons/PVE and PVP all ended up being 90% about who could put out the most dps to kill the other person faster because anything else was just wasting time.

 

I honestly think defined roles in an mmo is something that just hasn't been done properly in a number of years and particularly has never been done well in an action mmo at least of the ones I've played. Neverwinter came close but it had a whole slew of other issues.

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I can't help but get this overwhelming feeling of crowfall simply being a GW2 meets Wildstar now, with a few instanced servers for full loot.

 

It's unfortunate that people's first idea of action combat is GW2/Wildstar, mainly since both were basically tab target that pretended to be action. I really wish more people played TERA at 65 with a full set of good gear. It was a very good example of how to do combat. It was animated beautifully, your attacks had weight to them (excellent feedback), and it really did separate the great players from the mediocre... although, gear in that game matters waaaay too much.

 

If they can emulate the combat in TERA, or be very similar (I'd like to try Black Desert) I'd be a happy guy. I think if they do it right, the EK + satellite worlds acting as simple resource nodes, if you will, might be ok. I'm a fan of persistence so we'll see. It may be that each time these worlds "open" it's just a gigantic battleground of stupid. Hopefully not.

 

EDIT: and before I get railroaded, I realize that some elements of TERA weren't TOTALLY aim only. I know some of the range classes had a slight bit of aim assistance, but I never played them so I got no idea. I have a lancer/berserker and you had to aim that poorly made socks.

Edited by wormed

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I agree. A lot of people are making comparisons to GW2 and Wildstar(and rightly so) but those games did a lot of things wrong with a good idea. Have an open mind and assume they aren't going to make the same mistakes. When I think of true action combat I still think of my Berserker from Tera. 


Winter is coming. 

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