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oridi

Sad Healer Is Sad. "light In Combat Healing"

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It's unfortunate that people's first idea of action combat is GW2/Wildstar, mainly since both were basically tab target that pretended to be action. I really wish more people played TERA at 65 with a full set of good gear. It was a very good example of how to do combat. It was animated beautifully, your attacks had weight to them (excellent feedback), and it really did separate the great players from the mediocre... although, gear in that game matters waaaay too much.

 

If they can emulate the combat in TERA, or be very similar (I'd like to try Black Desert) I'd be a happy guy. I think if they do it right, the EK + satellite worlds acting as simple resource nodes, if you will, might be ok. I'm a fan of persistence so we'll see. It may be that each time these worlds "open" it's just a gigantic battleground of stupid. Hopefully not.

 

EDIT: and before I get railroaded, I realize that some elements of TERA weren't TOTALLY aim only. I know some of the range classes had a slight bit of aim assistance, but I never played them so I got no idea. I have a lancer/berserker and you had to aim that ****.

 

I never got terribly far in the (I think only mid to late 30s) but I did so love my healer.  Was so much fun having to make sure that folks were actually in the circles I was casting and then jokingly berate them when they decided to dodge at the last minute.  If I had people to run with I probably would have continued to play because the healer (at least to me) took too long to kill stuff.  Was still fun to run around healing people though.


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So I'm great with the game not being super hardcore healing, I'm fine just being a support who buffs, debuffs, does some area denial, cc ect. Just for the love of all things good and wholesome in this world do not make it like gw2. What could my guardian do? He could save a guy once in awhile, like protect a guy for 8 seconds every minute or so. He also couldn't die, so I would jump in save a dude for a bit and then for the next minute pray to Khorne that the enemies would spill my blood and ignore the people doing way more damage. I never felt like a support in gw2, the closest I came to feeling supporty was in the instanced pvp where I would sit on a capture point and Just. Not. Die. Support!

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What if...

 

What if someone skilled themselves to be the tankiest person in the game, maximum armour, health and regeneration. Since there is friendly fire if his allies retreated from the the frontline to hit him, gaining +35 health per hit while doing say 10 damage - would that make the tanky character technically a healer?

 

:blink:

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What if...

 

What if someone skilled themselves to be the tankiest person in the game, maximum armour, health and regeneration. Since there is friendly fire if his allies retreated from the the frontline to hit him, gaining +35 health per hit while doing say 10 damage - would that make the tanky character technically a healer?

 

:blink:

 

Close, but there is no point to healing if the characters being healed are not doing damage to the enemy.  The enemy will simply damage them while they try to heal off life steal, and damage always trumps life steal.


How Can Mounts Add to the Crowfall Experience?  Caravans, Hunting Boars, and more.

 

How Complex can Mining be in Crowfall?  Mining difficulty, fatigue, infrastructure.

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Close, but there is no point to healing if the characters being healed are not doing damage to the enemy.  The enemy will simply damage them while they try to heal off life steal, and damage always trumps life steal.

 

What if...

 

What if there was a way for people to heal up and then go back to the fight. Or slow down enemies chasing hurt people...

 

I think I just blew my own mind.

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You just started some "chuck-potions-every-second-asian-F2P-MMO"-induced PTSD for me.

 

I think you failed to take my post in context. What I mean was that people would cover people who would run back to hit the "Tank/Healer" to regenerate health with slows and stuns, even if they recover 30% of their health by beating on the beefwall healing font before their pursuers catch up it could be worth it you know?

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First of all i didnt read all 6 pages but first and last page only.

What i think when i first saw no combat heal was something along the lines of no magical heal kind of thing.
For example can you bandage someone when hes swinging a sword? AND this is in no way a bad thing imho.

There should be games that most of you played where in long term peoples equipment durability dropped so low you had to go back to town because you didnt have a blacksmith with your team who can repair the gear.This is a type of support too.

Gathering food might be part of support in other planes/part of universe etc. where you cant bring equipments/items more than stated amount. 

To be honest i myself am corrupted by the easy gameplay with healers when my ripped off arm grow back with 2 spells in the middle of the fight......

BUT what i seek here isnt the copy of the 10000000000000 mmo thats alredy in the market and if my guess about combat system is correct i will be playing this game for a looong time.

Edited by atesoguz332

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I prefer the muted healing, mostly because it's one of the enablers of the aggression control mechanic, which I hate with a passion. I don't think units should be relying on 1 or 2 units to do all the survival while they just wail away, and have little to no defense for themselves...

 

Most fighting units should be able to do battle and take some damage, like their offering, some with better defense, some with better offense, some with more support. There are a million ways to provide support without emptying a mana pool into allies life bars, and without tab targeting, the ability to preform decisive healing is pretty limited anyway, your either gonna be blasting heals all over the place or shooting allies with heals, or it's gonna be effortless button mashing.

 

With PvP centric combat, collision, and Siege warfare in mind, it's more practical if everyone has offensive and defensive tools, some may be more independent, some may be more cooperative, some may lean towards one or the other, and hopefully, they all provide those features in their own way.

 

Much like others have said, gameplay mechanics more common in MOBAs would be a better reference than classic MMOs, having a mage with one or two power saves of one sort or another might be interesting, but using other techniques like disables, obstructions, protections and so on can contribute to survival in much more dynamic ways than just targeting your ally and pressing the heal button when your ally gets in the yellow. 

 

In PvP combat, overspecialization just makes support units targets for focus fire anyway, and aggression control isn't acceptable with players, so finding a system which works without it and than applying it to the environmental AI so they can use the same strategies just works better, and by nature provides a more involved PvE experience as well.


a52d4a0d-044f-44ff-8a10-ccc31bfa2d87.jpg          Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... Than if they're upset, they'll be a mile away, and barefoot :P

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So I'm great with the game not being super hardcore healing, I'm fine just being a support who buffs, debuffs, does some area denial, cc ect. Just for the love of all things good and wholesome in this world do not make it like gw2. What could my guardian do? He could save a guy once in awhile, like protect a guy for 8 seconds every minute or so. He also couldn't die, so I would jump in save a dude for a bit and then for the next minute pray to Khorne that the enemies would spill my blood and ignore the people doing way more damage. I never felt like a support in gw2, the closest I came to feeling supporty was in the instanced pvp where I would sit on a capture point and Just. Not. Die. Support!

 

This!! This. A million times this! it's not that light healing can't work, but some of us are just citing a place where it DIDN'T work and where playing a "support" character was nothing but a joke. I played plenty of support characters from a medic in TF2, priest in wow and tera, a guardian in gw2, an esper healer in wildstar, support characters in Smite... And I did so in all of the content available from the hardest raids to battlegrounds to open world pvp, large scale WvW and GvG, warplots... you name it.

 

The notion that healing is more for PVE side is wrong and plenty of upcoming and not necessarily pvp focused mmos are doing away with the role too. I always found large scale pvp battles the most fun as a support player. No other role needs the same awareness of all the happenings in a battle. Who's getting damaged, who is high or low on health, who needs a dispel, what spell should I be using now and which one to use next and on whom? How's my mana? Am I overhealing? Do i have the time to try and regenerate some mana? Can I cast a slow and efficient heal or a quick and expensive one? Who can be sacrificed and what effect that will have. Should I use a long cooldown spell to reduce the strain on my team? How healthy is the enemy? How good are their healers taking care of things, and how is their mana? All this while taking care of myself.

 

It doesn't have to be heals. Shields, damage reduction, movement speed resistance buffs or debuffs, area denial, so many different things.. All those tools work for support. But there needs to be a serious dedication to it. GW2 is the most cited as it tried to do away with the role of healer and put emphasis on "support"  but it took a wrong approach. All I and others are looking for is Crowfall to make it work, and make support meaningful; Where i can save people rather than trying to kill the opponent faster in a "best deffense is offence" approach. The ammount of times I tried to protect my teammates in gw2 and was simply ignored and left for last and how my efforts had very little effect and how I would have been more useful by going in a more damage oriented direction makes me very weary of what may come. I'm still hopeful Crowfall can do it since everything else revealed so far sounds amazing. This is just a rant of someone seeing their role dying everywhere and hoping it can still be salvaged and meaningful, even if it's not just for "healing".

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I like there being limited healing, it's usually a third wheel class that very little play and OP in some scenarios. In actual war, there were no "healers" so it makes no sense to have them in here as well. When games add 1 class that is the only one able to heal it makes them instantly overpowered in most cases. I say stay away from healing because healing is a rather pointless class to begin with. The only thing that healers do is make battles take more time than they need to as each side tries to regain health to avoid the inevitable.

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I like there being limited healing, it's usually a third wheel class that very little play and OP in some scenarios. In actual war, there were no "healers" so it makes no sense to have them in here as well. When games add 1 class that is the only one able to heal it makes them instantly overpowered in most cases. I say stay away from healing because healing is a rather pointless class to begin with. The only thing that healers do is make battles take more time than they need to as each side tries to regain health to avoid the inevitable.

As long as the support classes are useful, then limited healing is fine imo. Also, actual war isn't really that relevant lol.

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You can definitely have great support classes without healing. First off I love playing healers so the lack of primary healers is a bit sad to me, but that being said, there are a few examples of great support classes that are light on the healing I'd like to point out.

 

1. Loremaster in LotRO. If specced into the debuff tree you could drop huge AoE debuffs as well as CCing people out of the fight. I certainly did not feel my LM was useless, gimped, or anything other than a total badass when I took him to the Ettenmoors.

2. Domination mesmer in GW1. Same thing but slightly different. The domination mesmer had a lot of skills that worked hindering your enemy's abilities to fight. Things like making them do damage to themselves if they used certain abilities and stuff. I never would have liked to use my particular build in a 1v1 but it did some serious damage in group fights.

3. Protection monk. Also GW1. Ok... so a lot of their abilities did do healing. But there were also a lot of really good ones that simply focused on preventing and reducing damage. I could see something like that not contradicting their anti-healer stance quite as bad as the abilities might not stack as well as a bunch of people healing the same target and slowing down damage isn't (usually) near as powerful as removing it. Just give them something like damage buffs or mana feeding to balance out their lack of healing and you could have a pretty powerful support class.

Edited by Andius

"To hell with honor. Win."

A Beginner's Guide to Crowfall (5.8.5 Edition)

 

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