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The good thing about Crowfall is that there's not going to be exponential amounts of power gain throughout the years like you see in most MMOs. There will likely be a little bit but there's not going to be new tiers of gear that come out every 6 months that have 15% more stats on them.

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And yet they already have .00001% increases from passive training...

 

the large numbers just look dumb. Cut a 0 off the end

If you did that my fessor would 1 shot most things with Absolution.

 

edit: or you mean remove a zero on all numbers? I can't see that working out either though.

Edited by coolwaters

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The reason the numbers are so 'high' is so we can see the trained skills affecting our abilities more easily.  If base HP is around 5k rather than 50k and damage and healing numbers are lowered we wont notice any of the skill gains effecting our numbers for months.  If they are at the values we have now we can see the small skill gains affecting our abilities more easily... They explained this in HD 1.0 when they upped the base HP and damage numbers.

Edited by destrin

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And yet they already have .00001% increases from passive training...

 

the large numbers just look dumb. Cut a 0 off the end

This is how I feel.

 

If they need to make "gains noticeable" then do just that.. Make gains noticeable, but having these high health pools and damage and what not makes it unable to "relate" to those numbers. 

 

They are too large.

 

I think PART of the problem is the 100% passive training system they have in place. Doing this means people can progress 24/7 which means that you need to have a freaking HUGE skill tree that takes months to level, but then they want people to be able to notice small gains, which makes them HAVE to have higher numbers.

 

I think this is a bad problem to have and the ROOT of it, is the passive skill training.

 

I think it is genius to keep SOME level of passive training, but you also need to have a focus on active training.

 

There are many options to solving this. One is to create a "gateway" website in which people can log in remotely and access their training more actively, rather than pure passive.

 

 

At the end of the day, I think they need to not worry about incremental gains for each little thing. They created this problem by making it full passive training. I think a combo of both works well. 

Edited by th3gatekeeper

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The larger numbers allow for a wide margin when they actually begin balancing and for when larger damage numbers come into play after skills, discs and vessel stats come in play...   we don't want too quick deaths and insta gibs.   By having some wiggle room at this point we have a good base to work from... lop off a zero and you cannot account for all the changes we will see.


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The larger numbers allow for a wide margin when they actually begin balancing and for when larger damage numbers come into play after skills, discs and vessel stats come in play...   we don't want too quick deaths and insta gibs.   By having some wiggle room at this point we have a good base to work from... lop off a zero and you cannot account for all the changes we will see.

 

That doesnt make any sense. Try agian


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GW1 had like like had builds with 55 hp and 500 hp and it worked fine, dont need 50k, GW2 had generally from 12k-30k tho health can go higher but at that point your a wet noodle. The numbers dont really bother me to be honest, its all about TTK and gameplay around the archetypes for me


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That doesnt make any sense. Try agian

 

The ONLY reason I see to have a larger number system is because of the passive tree and literally how small of increments they want to build via the passive tree.

 

So when you increase your minimum damage by 1, its only a  .05% boost. You technically cant do this if you cut a digit. Then it would increase minimum damage by .1 instead which would not register in the game.

 

Personally though, I am fine with this. I think this is only an issue because of the 100% passive training system we have now.

 

Rather than having each small improvement give .1 to min damage, take "10" increments of of improvement, and lump them all into ONE and then have that ONE improve your min damage by 1. which equals 10 "increments" on the current system. Make sense?

 

This would be MUCH preferred IMO to the current system. I dont need to see SUPER small increases happening 24/7. What I want to see are digestible numbers in game. When  I hit someone for 2543 it just feels weird.... We should be hitting for 254 instead. This is much easier to digest and understand what is going on.

 

Heck, just do a google search on the issue and the LARGE majority of responses will say things like this:

 

"[–]TheRealQwadeMarvel Heroes 18 points

1 year ago

 

From a balance maintenance perspective, high numbers are better than low numbers. Being able to split HP into smaller and smaller increments just makes it easier to keep everything tuned appropriately, which is something that can be harder at lower health numbers. High numbers decreases the likelihood of needing fractions of HP when tuning new enconters.

From a player's perspective, low numbers are better (IMO). It's much easier for my brain to register something like "took 10 damage" or even "hit for 3000" than it is to read "took 100000 damage" or "hit for 30000000." There's just a lot of digits that can be hard to take in when you're playing in real-time and the difference between life and death can be just a second. The proportional difference between 10 and 100 is the same as it is between 1000000 and 10000000, but that extra zero is so much easier to lose when there's just more digits on screen."

 

Part of me thinks... Think back to the OLD school days of pen and paper D&D. Everything was just small, in small numbers and it made it real... Get a +4 weapon or something and that was good! 

 

I just think you lose immersion and players can get frustrated. Heck... they want people to "notice" small differences but then give attacks a range that moots out any noticeable difference? I mean I could increase my damage TONS of times and still my actual hits will likely all be about the same with no real noticeable increase... If I am hitting between 1500 and 1700 or something and increase my min and max damage both by 10. Im still hitting within 1510 and 1710 which still likely means any damage numbers I SEE on screen will be the same.

 

Id rather have them take "10" units of those increases, make them ONE unit (sure it means that single upgrade will take 10x as long) but have my damage be 150-170 and then increasing each of those by 1 = 151-171 and this is MUCH more "real" to me. I dont need to see my damage go from 1501-1701 and then 1502-1702, then to 1503-1703. Pretty soon I stop caring because its no noticeable difference to me AND its not an easy number to digest...

 

I guess TLDR: Id rather have smaller. Smaller RANGES of damage too on each ability. Smaller scale of numbers. If this means each "passive tree" upgrade takes 10x as long because they "lumped" several things together to compensate for this. I am fine with that. 

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Agree fully would prefer to cut AT LEAST 2-3 digits(preferably even more) of the current numbers to make it more digestible, the fact that we already resort to saying thing like 50k health, and 2k dmg (ie we already shorten them when discussing the numbers), should prove that they are just too darn large.

And if they ABSOLUTELY insist on keeping the ridiculous numbers, at least add in thousand-point seperator (or whatever you call that in English, ie 10.000 instead of 10000), would at least help digest the numbers a bit, but still far prefer to cut the numbers by quite a bit

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Agree fully would prefer to cut AT LEAST 2-3 digits(preferably even more) of the current numbers to make it more digestible, the fact that we already resort to saying thing like 50k health, and 2k dmg (ie we already shorten them when discussing the numbers), should prove that they are just too darn large.

And if they ABSOLUTELY insist on keeping the ridiculous numbers, at least add in thousand-point seperator (or whatever you call that in English, ie 10.000 instead of 10000), would at least help digest the numbers a bit, but still far prefer to cut the numbers by quite a bit

10.000 is still as annoying to type as 10,000

 

(P.S. We call em decimals, and a number with 3 decimal places is in the thousandths)


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And yet they already have .00001% increases from passive training...

 

the large numbers just look dumb. Cut a 0 off the end

Destrin explained it better than I did, but my point is the same: Larger numbers help so that decimals are more noticeable. 3% is more noticeable than 0.003% and 3,000 is more noticeable than 3 Edited by coolster50

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They really could lose a digit. It would have zero impact on balance and gameplay. Its like switching from Millimeters to Centimeters.

 

There is just no need to subdivide the health of a character into 50,000 units. There is no gameplay difference between being at 36,732 life and 36,733 life.


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Destrin explained it better than I did, but my point is the same: Larger numbers help so that decimals are more noticeable. 3% is more noticeable than 0.003% and 3,000 is more noticeable than 3

Yes, but this is why I said that they can easily reformat these small gains and start lumping things together to make them noticable gains.

 

Also you do exaggerate a  little there sying 3% versus .003% now your talking THREE decimal places as opposed to one.

 

What I propose (using your analogy) is to shrink things down by cutting ONE decimal place, then LUMPING together a few "increases" so that ONE increase is 1% (made up of current 3x increases at .3%) rather than having each increase be 3% and keeping larger numbers.

 

 

Again, to go back to my example. I dont need 1500 damage and to start having every small increase boost that by 1. What I want is 150 damage and then I work LONGER but get a boost of 1 here. 

 

Rather than doing 10 things that boost my 1500 damage by 1. I want to do 10 things that individually dont do anything but AFTER doing all ten, boosts my damage by 1, so that my damage is 151 instead of 150. To take it further, Id even rather have them COMBINE those 10 things INTO 1 thing and then have THAT new 1 thing boost damage by 1.

 

This would be much preferred to me to keep numbers smaller. Adding 1 to 1500 damage is PEANUTS, especially considering damage ranges already overshadow any increases.

 

Adding 1 to 150 damage is pretty attractive though. Even if it takes longer to do. 

 

 

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They really could lose a digit. It would have zero impact on balance and gameplay. Its like switching from Millimeters to Centimeters.

 

There is just no need to subdivide the health of a character into 50,000 units. There is no gameplay difference between being at 36,732 life and 36,733 life.

It kind of impacts the skill training.  If you are only going to improve a characters health pool by 1% for fully training in a skill that increase health.  Then a 50,000 unit health pool would improve by 5 per tick of a skill.  A health pool of 5,000 units would only improve by 1 every other skill tick.

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Rather than doing 10 things that boost my 1500 damage by 1. I want to do 10 things that individually dont do anything but AFTER doing all ten, boosts my damage by 1, so that my damage is 151 instead of 150. To take it further, Id even rather have them COMBINE those 10 things INTO 1 thing and then have THAT new 1 thing boost damage by 1.

This impacts their philosophy that each point of passive training should improve you character and adds undue requirements on the new player to know where the training break occur; as you receive no value until you reach the break point or have wasted effort if you train past it.

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This impacts their philosophy that each point of passive training should improve you character and adds undue requirements on the new player to know where the training break occur; as you receive no value until you reach the break point or have wasted effort if you train past it.

Just divide the amount of ranks in each skill similar so you have 10 ranks per skill instead of 100, we are talking about cutting the numbers on EVERYTHING, so taht can easily include number of skill ranks...

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