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Raizex

Dual Daggers are Silly - Let's get the ranger a more respectable melee weapon

Alternative Ranger Weapons  

165 members have voted

  1. 1. Which alternative melee weapons would you like to see?

    • Sword and Dagger
    • Sword and Buckler
    • Sword and Cape
    • Axe and Buckler
    • I like my dual daggers just fine, thank you very much.
    • Other...(Post alternative in comments)


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You say dagger ... I say short sword.  Short sword is used for in close fighting against unarmored or lightly armored opponents (chain+leather).  It normally takes about 3 hits to the same location to get through chain.  With a mass heavy saex I'll start beating the meat into submission before cutting through the armor.

 

100_8060.jpg

 

0ae7053f77acf01b937b474cf9b8e43f.jpg

 

Against armored opponents you want something that slips in between that coat of plates.  These are thrusting weapons as opposed to slicers.

 

rondel_daggers01_s.jpg


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You say dagger ... I say short sword.  Short sword is used for in close fighting against unarmored or lightly armored opponents (chain+leather).  It normally takes about 3 hits to the same location to get through chain.  With a mass heavy saex I'll start beating the meat into submission before cutting through the armor.

 

100_8060.jpg

 

0ae7053f77acf01b937b474cf9b8e43f.jpg

 

Against armored opponents you want something that slips in between that coat of plates.  These are thrusting weapons as opposed to slicers.

 

rondel_daggers01_s.jpg

 

It doesn't really matter what you call it. It matters how short the weapon is. In the real world nothing is as straightforward as, "Chop their chainmail 3 times in the same place with this sword and you'll cut through." Not to mention that it hardly matters if the weapon itself is capable of getting through an opponents armor if you get skewered by a spear before you can get within striking distance to do so.

 

Sure, having a defensive weapon can help you survive getting into striking distance with a shorter weapon, but take a look at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8RWLxlzTiM Notice how difficult it is for the person with even a buckler and one-handed sword of decent length to close the distance? Most of the time he is at the mercy of spear wielder, and is constantly on the defensive until he can find a way around the spears tip.

 

I still maintain that you'd be a fool to bring a weapon that is only as long as your forearm against soldiers with spears, polearms, and longswords, all of which are either longer than a person is tall, or at least come up above their waist. And by longsword, I mean a the traditional 2-handed sword wielded by knights of the late medieval and Renaissance periods, not the one-handed sword used by the Knight currently in Crowfall: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longsword

 

Also, check again the name of that second picture that you linked. Those are rondel daggers, traditionally used be knights as a backup weapon to a longsword, which was itself usually a backup weapon to some form of polearm or ranged weapon. Again, like I said before, one of the most common uses for the dagger was as a finishing weapon once they had thrown their opponent to the ground and rendered them mostly defenseless, or as a last resort if they had dropped all of their other weapons.

 

But, as previous posters have already mentioned, this is a game, not real life, and the above just serves as some fluff, which probably only matters to some. And not everyone who cares about the fluff agrees with me that it should better match RL, either. But suspension of disbelief is a thing, and I find it hard to suspend my disbelief when I engage in melee with raging minotaurs carrying giant meat cleavers or frothing beserkers wielding gaint axes with nothing but a couple of daggers, and sometimes even win due to my C heal, because 'Magic'.

 

What I find even weirder is that our C still feels a bit out of place. It is really the only overtly magical skill in the Ranger's arsenal, besides the teleport (which we may lose to the assasin, anyway.) Not that I find anything wrong with rangers using magic, they are, after all, divine casters in D&D. It just feels a bit sudden to start leeching health from our attacks, when we haven't used any other form of magic up until that point.

Edited by Raizex

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To be fair Raizex... this game involves platemail with the defensive values of warm butter.

And without the relative imperviousness of real platemail there ain't no one who should be using daggers. But you know... Legolas rules.

Edited by Kastor

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Also, remember that it's the Ranger... not the Archer. A pair of hunting knives is sensible for anyone who's going to spend most of their lives in the wilderness and on the move.

 

Anything bigger would be unwieldy, it's already bad enough that she has to carry round a bow while... climbing trees? I presume rangers spend a lot of time in trees, not for any practical reason, they are just that kind of person.

Then why two of them?... redundancy. Anyone who does wilderness survival will tell you a backup knife is a good idea, not critical but still a good idea.

Stop thinking of her as a frontline warrior and more as a glorified poacher.

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Also, remember that it's the Ranger... not the Archer. A pair of hunting knives is sensible for anyone who's going to spend most of their lives in the wilderness and on the move.

 

Anything bigger would be unwieldy, it's already bad enough that she has to carry round a bow while... climbing trees? I presume rangers spend a lot of time in trees, not for any practical reason, they are just that kind of person.

 

Then why two of them?... redundancy. Anyone who does wilderness survival will tell you a backup knife is a good idea, not critical but still a good idea.

 

Stop thinking of her as a frontline warrior and more as a glorified poacher.

 

Aragorn was a Ranger, and as such was proficient with "Sword, bow, and spear.". The D&D Ranger also reflects this, being proficient with all martial weapons, which includes things like longswords and warhammers, and is also proficient with bucklers and shields (but not tower shields). The same can also be said of Rangers in GW2, which can use swords, axes, and spears.

 

All of these are quite capable of being more than 'a glorified poacher'.

 

Now, Crowfall can do what it pleases when in comes to designing their ranger, but from the visual design at least, it appears to me that they are going much more for a Ranger of the North (or a Ranger of Night's Watch) than they are a Legolas.

 

Honestly, I think carrying around a sword and buckler is more than sensible for a traveler in a world where Hunger and Monsters are encroaching, and bandits, highwayman, and scavengers abound. In fact, it was quite common for travelers in medieval times to do just that. (Not to mention that it was also a favorite among said bandits and highwayman, which from the Ranger's lore regarding her melee promotion class seems to be a role that she is also quite capable of fulfilling.)

 

Also, the Ranger's Archer's Stake ability has no obvious use outside waging war, so I think saying her primary role in the lore is that of survivalist would be incorrect.

Edited by Raizex

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You say dagger ... I say short sword.  Short sword is used for in close fighting against unarmored or lightly armored opponents (chain+leather).  It normally takes about 3 hits to the same location to get through chain.  With a mass heavy saex I'll start beating the meat into submission before cutting through the armor.

 

100_8060.jpg

 

0ae7053f77acf01b937b474cf9b8e43f.jpg

 

Against armored opponents you want something that slips in between that coat of plates.  These are thrusting weapons as opposed to slicers.

 

rondel_daggers01_s.jpg

 

Historically Chain mail did little  to impede thrusting/piercing, be it daggers, swords, what have you.  Links were typically NOT welded and would easily spread apart under a piercing thrust.

 

Chain mail also did nothing to mitigate impact force, be it a hammer/mace or even the force from a longsword/broadsword/axe.

 

Chain mail was incredibly effective against any form of Slashing/cutting damage.

Edited by Bramble

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Makes a ton of sense, but video games don't have a rational perspective of arsenals and side arms.

 

Realistically speaking, everyone would have a sword and dagger on their belt, and a primary weapon besides. But yeah, designers are too detached from authentic inspiration.

 

I'd be happy if they just gave knight a sword rather than a paddle. And let's not talk about slow two handed swords, this is why they think daggers are a viable primary weapon.


a52d4a0d-044f-44ff-8a10-ccc31bfa2d87.jpg          Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... Than if they're upset, they'll be a mile away, and barefoot :P

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These are the weapons I'm hopeing the Ranger will get.  ....


Weapons.jpg

 

Or give me a skin to make them look like that pls.

Edited by Soulreaver

Huginn ok Muninn, fljúga hverjan dag, Jörmungrund yfir; óumk ek of Hugin,, at hann aftr né komi-t, þó sjámk meir of Munin

Gathering of Ranger videos

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These are the weapons I'm hopeing the Ranger will get.  ....

 

 

Weapons.jpg

 

Or give me a skin to make them look like that pls.

 

Eh, they look cool, but also pretty top heavy, which would be compounded by the fact that they are one-handed. Not to mention that they have pretty much zero hand protection. I was hoping for something a little bit more bog standard and practical, like this:

 

DSCF16221.jpg

Edited by Raizex

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Eh, they look cool, but also pretty top heavy, which would be compounded by the fact that they are one-handed. Not to mention that they have pretty much zero hand protection. I was hoping for something a little bit more bog standard and practical, like this:

 

Shes not a duelist.

 

The top heavy weapon is comparable to the axe/tomahawk. Which I believe is more her style of fighting. Her nimble frame and manner of fighting is to weave in combat dodging in and out. Not staying to parry/block. The lack of hand protection is only a loss if you use your weapon to block with, which the ranger shoudn't opt for. They are indeed one handed since she is a fual yeildimg class.

Edited by Soulreaver

Huginn ok Muninn, fljúga hverjan dag, Jörmungrund yfir; óumk ek of Hugin,, at hann aftr né komi-t, þó sjámk meir of Munin

Gathering of Ranger videos

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The case for dual dagger.

 

"but the ranger isn't an assassin" Doesn't mean the Ranger can't be as proficient as an assassin.

 

"You are at an immediate reach disadvantage whenever you encounter an opponent with a weapon longer than their forearm." If this were an issue, for the sake of arguement we will say it is in this game, those with a longer weapon are now at a weight disadvantage and mobility disadvantage as one dagger can deflect the sword allowing the Ranger to get in close, then you say they have a shield, then I say they'll have to drop that shield eventually to fight back.  Blah blah blah.

 

"Heck, even someone with a sturdy broomstick has a reasonable chance at fending you off. " What kind of broom stick are we talking about here?  Like a wood one you see now a days or a branch off a tree?  Either way, then you either have a weak broom handle or a heavy broom handle.  

 

 

Daggers are about getting close, someone who is proficient with them ought to be able to get in close to use them.  Besides, as mentioned initially with the Ranger, it was a "oh crap they're getting in close better switch to my nice light compact weapons to try and defend myself" or a "oh no I'm out of arrows but we are still engaging the enemy".  Also I can roll and forest step right on top of you and continue to do so while you're running away.  If you want a sword or whatever, fine, ask Ace to recycle animations from other Archetypes so you can wield your sword, but don't take away my daggers lol.

Edited by amazingtacoburito

 

Formerly known as - AmazingTacoBurito

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If we're talking about practicality why aren't all classes using guns then, they exist and even have rapid fire apparently.  There's a reason why we use guns now and now swords and axes.

 

Trying to convince a change in weapon style based on logic isn't going to do much in a high fantasy type game.

Edited by jasta85

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SPEARS! SPEARS! SPEARS!

 

 

 

 

Seriously, spears.

My personal favorite weapon type.

Spears I feel are the most overlooked weapon choice in every game, not many games especially MMO's nowadays even consider the use of spears/polearms as a weapon choice. 

 

Spear/sidearm, spear/shield, spear/throwing weapons for me all day.

 


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On 2/3/2017 at 8:49 AM, amazingtacoburito said:

There's also the chance that the discipline runes will let you use a different weapons.

It's now confirmed that they do...ahem....will. Good guess!

Edited by Raizex

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