Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
th3gatekeeper

"Scaling" Feedback - Damage/Health/etc.

Recommended Posts

Just a suggestion. Players have 50kish HP and deal 1-2k hits and occasionally I have seen players (in videos) dealing 10k+ damage with a single hit.

My suggestion is to divide everything by 10. 

Players should have 5k HP, deal 100-200 hits, and a 1k crit should be big.

Why do I say this? 


When I first logged into the game, everything is not "comprehensible". What I mean is I start looking at abilities and see:
"Deals XXX - XXX damage + XX% of weapon damage" 

My mind instantly doesnt remember this, its too many numbers and feels like a math equation. Also when you start USING abilities, you see so much variability in the hits, you have a harder time understanding what abilities does what and when to use what and it all just seems like you need to study and memorize and calculate everything.

What I am saying is our brains are wired in such a way to remember smaller snippets of numbers. THere is a reason phone numbers are XXX-XXX-XXXX and social security numbers are XXX-XX-XXXX

Smaller numbers are more comprehensible to players and more intuitive.

If I hit someone for 100, I understand that. When I hit them for 125 damage, its easy to follow. When I start hitting people for 1257 and then another 1875 and 1546, I start to lose track of what did what.... versus seeing "125" and "187" and "154" its easier to follow those numbers.

 

Just my 2 cents. I think there is a reason many games use this approach to scaling - where a player will have a few thousand HP, and players hit for a few hundred damage. Its much easier to track than when you add numbers to the end. They also start to lose meaning when you get super high.... adding another zero, imagine having 500k HP and hitting players for 14,786 then another time for 18,798 and then a big crit for 104,872. You start to lose track of what went where and how much damage you just did.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They said big numbers make things easier in their end when adjusting values.

 

Yeah, it is ugly and intimidating but they can fine tune things easier. One example would be the difference between an amazing sucess and sucess in crafting where in your case the difference would be minimal (ignored by) to the player.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They said big numbers make things easier in their end when adjusting values.

 

Yeah, it is ugly and intimidating but they can fine tune things easier. One example would be the difference between an amazing sucess and sucess in crafting where in your case the difference would be minimal (ignored by) to the player.

Well it depends. An increase from 100 to 150 is NOT any different to a player than 1000 to 1500. especially if they learn that 150 is good. Its sen the same... 

 

Big numbers might make it easier to adjust things, but its less intuitive and less "receptive" by the players themselves. I get that they want people to start at "end game" but even "end game" in most games doesnt have damage scaling like this. Usually this kind of damage scaling happens after the game has been out for 3 years and they run out of stuff to do because everyone has had so much gear creep in the meantime, so developers try to "flush" the game by making an "expansion" and to do so, and make all previous stuff irrelevant, they double everything... damage, HP etc. Or sometimes even more.

 

Crowfall (kickstarter) video said they want to make a game of risk, that allows for the "board" to reset, but the players to live on. Eventually you WILL hit a point where power creep and/or boredom guarantee you have to do this "reset" on a larger scale with the player base too. 3 years in, you dont want half the population running around with 100% maxed skill trees farming all the new players coming into the game. 

 

Anyways ill end my rant, but I think its MUCH better to start off smaller and shave off a number in all this.... A 200 hit should be considered "average" and a 1000 hit should be like "WOW"... 

 

There have been MANY MANY books written on the subject and the study of humans brains and how we are wired. I had to read/study this for my sales position to learn the best ways to communicate to people as well as give presentations. The same rules carry over into games and I just experienced it today - playing Crowfall.

 

Too many numbers, too much going on, not an "easy" way for my mind to differentiate skills and attack powers and strengths without taking a deep dive into each ability and even THEN I had to start adding % of weapon damage etc etc. This should ALL be baked into a tooltip number.

 

"3" deals "89-123" damage and then in the description (made up of XX -XX damage + X% weapon damage). 

 

THIS is very simple to understand. I press 3, it does within a two to three digit range of numbers and I know what to do to improve damage: get better weapons.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is going to sound redundant but when you scale everything down by a factor or 10, you scale the range by a factor of 10.

 

If a skill does 2200 - 3000 damage and you scale it down to 220 - 300 you're scaling the possible range of damage from 800 to 80 which can, if ever so minor, give decimals.

 

Prior : You deal 10,245 damage for a crit

your suggestion : You deal 1,024.5 and since hp doesn't do .5 incriments you'd either round up or down, creating a minor +/-1hp difference. The smaller you scale down your values, the more error you have. I like the range they've got at the moment, and unlike wow, I don't think each new tier will boost your HP/Mana/Damage by huge factors. So, we'll be sitting pretty at the 40k-mid50k mark for a long while.

 

 

Edit: I do agree with your last part about adding in the skill damage and weapon addon damage together in the tool-tip. If they can do that at the moment, it's probably just not a priority for them.

Edited by Feur

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is going to sound redundant but when you scale everything down by a factor or 10, you scale the range by a factor of 10.

 

If a skill does 2200 - 3000 damage and you scale it down to 220 - 300 you're scaling the possible range of damage from 800 to 80 which can, if ever so minor, give decimals.

 

Prior : You deal 10,245 damage for a crit

your suggestion : You deal 1,024.5 and since hp doesn't do .5 incriments you'd either round up or down, creating a minor +/-1hp difference. The smaller you scale down your values, the more error you have. I like the range they've got at the moment, and unlike wow, I don't think each new tier will boost your HP/Mana/Damage by huge factors. So, we'll be sitting pretty at the 40k-mid50k mark for a long while.

 

 

Edit: I do agree with your last part about adding in the skill damage and weapon addon damage together in the tool-tip. If they can do that at the moment, it's probably just not a priority for them.

I get what your saying, but im just letting you know that scaling IS going to be a turn off to players. Ill tell you right now. It may not be HUGE when when players look at the game, watch footage and decide if they want to play or not, if they see all these crazy numbers all over the screen it doesnt look as clean or crisp.

 

Yes, you cut the possible range down, but I dont think thats impossible to get around. Anything can be adjusted to fit. Yes, you have to round up or down in decimals, I would say always round down, but I really think its going to be needed IMO. Its a big QOL change that I think will make a difference.

 

Heck, I just think back to my runescape days, the "scale" on damage there was like 1-30. Not 1000-15,000 and people loved it because it was simple.

 

Old school WOW days, I remember having around 3k HP and a 1k crit was HUGE! It was simple. Easy to follow and understand. I hit for 100, or 300, or a BIG crit was 1000 or even heck 900. 

 

When you start adding 1 more "digit" you just start to lose those values.

 

Maybe its because people are not used to dealing with that level of number IRL.

 

How much did that meal cost? $30.

How much were those pair of Jordans? $200

How much was that new Phone? $500.

 

People think $500 and go wow thats ALOT of money. You get my drift. People dont normally "communicate" in 4 digits. Maybe if we had hyper inflation and a burger costs $1000 and your new shoes cost $7000 and your new phone costs $20,000 then yeah. People might be "used to it". Im just telling you now though...

 

Ive been a gamer for a LONG time. Ive played MMOs for a LONG time and played RPGs even longer. I havnt seen games where damage like that is the norm. 

 

I REALLY think that for QOL reasons... to make them "real" numbers, they need to shrink everything down.

 

Heck you dont even have to do a /10 scale.

 

Even something like 40% of what it currently is SEEMS more "real".

 

20k HP. Much easier to digest than 50k.

A 600 hit. Easier to digest than 2k

Now that 15k hit turns into 6k.

 

6k is still a BIG number, but its MUCH easier to digest than 15k.

 

All I am saying is NORMAL damage should be kept to 3 digits, not 4 digits. BIT crits can spill into the thousands if you must and HP can be whatever it needs to... but when you have big crits spilling into 5 digits and normal damage at 4 digits, we are literally programmed to not "relate" to those numbers.

 

Just my 2 cents... I get that "range" of options shrinks. I dont think that makes it not possible to do. I think even in a system 40% of the same numbers it is now, you still have PLENTY of range to mess with. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just make it a personal 'option' to check in the menu .

 

Those wanting to see larger digits can see the 5000001 increase to 500015 with a skill % increase

 

Those who don't see the rounded down figure 5000 changes to 5000, personal choice

 

Not sure how easy that would be though to implement


Ex-Member of :   Lf6MJUL.png  Re-applying soon!


 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just make it a personal 'option' to check in the menu .

 

Those wanting to see larger digits can see the 5000001 increase to 500015 with a skill % increase

 

Those who don't see the rounded down figure 5000 changes to 5000, personal choice

 

Not sure how easy that would be though to implement

This is a good idea. Dont know how easy it would be. May not be doable at all actually now that I think about it.

 

You would have issues having numbers appear that are different than "Actual" values the server sees

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A 600 hit. Easier to digest than 2k

 

I think a partial solution like Mother_fable's is suggested in your comment here. Binary prefixes emerged in part to accomplish this, and are used in games like D3. Damage notifications could just flash up the appropriate notation rounded to a certain place, because 2k is actually fairly easy to digest, easier than 2003, easier even than 603. All they need is to code it so that we see 1 - 999, 1.x k - 99k, 0.1M+ etc.

 

This would only affect damage display numbers but it is something. I would prefer all stats to limited to a smaller range but don't expect to see that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...