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krazo

First playtest game design feedback

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If your gear defines your progression, when it's gone, you've lost that progression.

 

I don't consider temporary progression to be progression at all. It's a buff tied to what you're wearing. A brand new player can put on a piece of elite gear. He hasn't progressed.

 

Some of this is semantic, but I'll never play a game very long where character builds are largely defined by gear.

I could not agree more. 

 

There has to be a complex, customizable, persistent progression. Even beyond gear, the vessel and displine runes/starting runes are all temporary, and even further, can be swapped around like potatos. 

 

The skill trees lacks complexity and customization. In the current implementation, anyway.

 

EK's has potential to be complex and customizable. However, while city building will entice alot of people, myself included, there needs to be more. And not many could fuel such expansive complex creations anyway. EKs, in a way, can be P2W, which is okay since it doesn't directly effect CWs.

Edited by Vectious

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Hmm. Why do you think character diversity has to come from "progression"? To me progression is anything that makes your character more powerful over time. Whereas specialization or customization change your character but don't necessarily make it more powerful.  Just different. Some choices might make you gimp or op. You have to find the right combination. My argument is that the ability to make those choices doesn't need to be tied to an investment of time or effort. It's not just "wait two days and then i'm x% better forever." I think the current system is actually the opposite of what you want.

 

Right now, every character will converge to be the same because over time players will unlock all the skills.  I think it's more interesting if the skills in the tree are alternatives and once you unlock them, you have some flex to change among alternatives to try out different builds and choose different skills for different archetypes. Right now if you unlock attack power but decide you want more health, you have to wait to unlock more health.  Now you have both: more health and more attack power.  There's no choice or tradeoff.  You get it all.  You just have to wait.  I don't really see the point in that or how it promotes interesting builds or character types.

 

Oh, also, as I said above, I'm against equipped items dropping. Because of losing progression.  I'm fine with durability loss.  Be careful and repair often. I think equipped item drops will also lead to no economy because no one will want to take the risk to wear rare items.

Disciplines will create greater diversity .

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A great example of that is Albion. A big shortcoming is the power of your character has, is directly tied to the tier of armor/weapon you have. At least in that game, it's pretty easy to get non-progression new equipment. One good thing about the game is you could progress combat trees(You're weapon spec, and armor spec), on top of a gathering or crafting spec(hide, mining, or lumbering. Or a specific armor piece to craft). Something you can't do in Crowfall.

 

You could probably learn a lot by looking at what Albion is doing wrong :)

Edited by Feur

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If your gear defines your progression, when it's gone, you've lost that progression.

 

I don't consider temporary progression to be progression at all. It's a buff tied to what you're wearing. A brand new player can put on a piece of elite gear. He hasn't progressed.

 

Some of this is semantic, but I'll never play a game very long where character builds are largely defined by gear.

 

 

As long as there will be POI's that can produce varied grades of materials I'm okay with the current trajectory of the crafting system.  We are able to add weight to specific resistances and the grade of materials affects the max resist potential.  I think ACE will just need to find that sweet spot to make legendary worth the extra effort without creating combat balance issues exacerbated by gear disparity.

 

Example Quality Tiers (This is by no means how things currently work)

gray - no advantage

white - 2.5%

green - 5%

purple - 10%

orange - 15%

Luck factor no more than + or - 5%

 

Min/Max players will strive to get that 15% advantage to mitigations or increase to a specific dmg type.  Crafters will be able to make blueprint runs on gear weighted to specific resist types which will make gearing against spec groups part of the rock, scissors, paper meta.

 

I would not play Crowfall or any MMO for that matter if I had to grind the highest quality gear constantly to remain relevant and competitive.  Gear grinding in Darkfall is the reason myself and many of my friends simply never stuck with it.  If your group didn't scrape bot, dupe, potato bot farm, then you had zero chance of being a factor in that game.

Edited by cyjax

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If your gear defines your progression, when it's gone, you've lost that progression.

 

I don't consider temporary progression to be progression at all. It's a buff tied to what you're wearing. A brand new player can put on a piece of elite gear. He hasn't progressed.

 

Some of this is semantic, but I'll never play a game very long where character builds are largely defined by gear.

 

Yeah, I think you're just using progression differently than me.  To me, progression is anything you have to work or wait for. In crowfall, I expect gear as progression will happen at the start of any new campaign as guilds win POIs, gain resources, build crafting buildings, siege, steal, murder and manipulate the economy. But yeah, halfway through a campaign a new character can come in and get given stuff by their guild.  To me that's perfect. It's really about guild progression through the ability to gear out its players and prevent other guilds from gearing up. That should provide an advantage. If combat advantages can be granted based on control of territory, that's progression and awesome too (like boons from SB.) That's the "progression" I think the game should have.

 

I don't think you should have to work or wait for your build. At least not at the account level.  I think builds should be diverse and interesting.  You should be rewarded for finding cool and unexpected synergies between disciplines and random skill customizations.  All of that is awesome and super important. I'm not sure why you should have to work or wait for the ability to do that though. I'd rather making cool builds be accessible, flexible, attached to your character and not time locked.

 

After all, faster access to new builds was probably why both you and I migrated to the test server on SB so long ago. Don't forget your roots!

Edited by krazo

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