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Ranged Getting Screwed?


mandalore
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmP4H01oI14

 

I hope, uhhh, combat system will be similar to Die by the Sword.

Joking, just jokng.

 

In all honesty, I don't like (from what I've seen. Never played it) Darkfall's combat system. It's twitchy and ruins M-MUH IMMERSION. I'm more fine with telegraphs than with this constant WASD-ing and 360-noscoperinos. And, telegraphs. Well, they're telegraphs. We've already discussed the matter.

 

I've given a lot of thought on how to make combat not f-ing suck a shlong, and there's only one game, which combat system I've fallen in love with.

It's Bungie's "Oni".

It's simple. It's effective. It's fun. It's simply perfect. I can't find any videos displaying it's combat system exclsively, but if you're interested - there are a ton of letsplays on the youtubes.

 

THAT kind of CS in Crowfall I'd love to see. 

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This is a silly debate. No one is talking about the tab targeting in GW2. I am talking about all the abilities that aren't tab target that are in GW2. There is no crosshair aiming in Crowfall like there is in Darkfall. Comparing the two is far more ridiculous than comparing Crowfall to GW2.

 

Where the hell are you pulling this information from? Because it's certainly not anything the devs have said. No one has remotely stated that there won't be crosshair aiming.

 

If this game is closer to GW2 than Darkfall, it will fail. GW2 combat caters to casuals. Casuals don't like losing their stuff. They won't like the systems in a game like this.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmP4H01oI14

 

I hope, uhhh, combat system will be similar to Die by the Sword.

Joking, just jokng.

 

In all honesty, I don't like (from what I've seen. Never played it) Darkfall's combat system. It's twitchy and ruins M-MUH IMMERSION. I'm more fine with telegraphs than with this constant WASD-ing and 360-noscoperinos. And, telegraphs. Well, they're telegraphs. We've already discussed the matter.

 

I've given a lot of thought on how to make combat not f-ing suck a shlong, and there's only one game, which combat system I've fallen in love with.

It's Bungie's "Oni".

It's simple. It's effective. It's fun. It's simply perfect. I can't find any videos displaying it's combat system exclsively, but if you're interested - there are a ton of letsplays on the youtubes.

 

THAT kind of CS in Crowfall I'd love to see. 

 

Neverwinter is a totally garbage game with totally garbage mechanics, but damn if the combat doesn't feel good while you're doing it (in terms of movement, targeting, and animations). Might be worth checking out , because it would definitely fit well with Crowfall.

Edited by isarii
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Neverwinter is a totally garbage game with totally garbage mechanics, but damn if the combat doesn't feel good while you're doing it (in terms of movement, targeting, and animations). Might be worth checking out , because it would definitely fit well with Crowfall.

Is it twitchy? Because if something's twitchy, I ain't touching it.

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I think maybe this is a matter of `skill` being somewhat required.

 

In other news, go sharpen up your skills playing some Quake Live.

Edited by Spottycat

◄ Jaguar / Tasho ▬ Knights of Glory and Beer ►


Master of Useless Darkfall Physics Spells and Originator of Shrapnel/Begone Jumping


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I think maybe this is a matter of `skill` being somewhat required.

 

In other news, go sharpen up your skills playing some Quake Live.

 

If I wanted to play Quake Live, I'd go and play it. I sure want combat to be adrenaline fueled and fluid, but not in a QuakeLive-way.

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Show me an official dev post stating they are going in a different direction from wildstar combat prior to the big blow out from TERA fans and you'll have me convinced. Till then this is our timeline

 

Wildstar telegraphs with option to turn them off. Faq and KS video shows initial design of telegraphs.

Forum backlash of TERA fans

ArtCraft walks back, removing telegraphs from the game

ArtCraft states they will go more toward TERA combat

ArtCraft begins work on reticule combat system

 

While I don't know exactly when the "backlash" began (do you?) nor Combat FAQ was added, or the multiple edits, there is this post that points out there weren't going for "Wildstar telegraphs" before we even saw them in action. Wildstar didn't invent them BTW.

 

http://community.crowfall.com/index.php?/topic/1408-consider-removing-the-optional-ground-texture/?p=34006

 

As far backlash and what not, as was said, it really hasn't been from "Tera fans" but rather fans of more skill shot and animation based combat that doesn't involve staring at the ground 24/7. If I wanted to play a top down game, I'd play something designed with an isometric design. 1 vs 1, 5 vs 5, and smaller scale PVP they can be useful, once you start getting into large scale, not going to be of use. Which is blindingly obvious by watching any Warplot combat.

 

Either way, these 2 posts the day of or after the KS video and actual combat was seen don't appear to be quick fixes to calm the "Tera fans". Rather what they had come to realize through testing the design

 

Their form of telegraphs don't really look like Wildstar's to me and could work on a small scale. However, as pointed out, once you start factoring in siege, different elevations/distances, massive combat, they ability to be effective drops off very quickly. If telegraphs exist in any form, all combat/skills have to be designed with them in mind. Seems to be they started putting pieces of the pre-alpha puzzle together and noticed they weren't fitting.

 

http://community.crowfall.com/index.php?/topic/2628-wildstar-action-combat/?p=69211

http://community.crowfall.com/index.php?/topic/2628-wildstar-action-combat/?p=68725

 

It is still possible there will be telegraphs of some form. Don't believe they have 100% ditched them or revealed what combat will look like. Could still be used for friendly buffs/heals and other things that are typically short distance and benefit from big flashing lights going "hey stand over here for a buff/heal." Such as planting a banner or holding one to pump up allies. A not flashy red line or something would be a nice use of "telegraphs".

 

Sorry your preferred style wasn't the chosen one, but if you can't see the limitations they have within the mechanics/features they want to implement, not sure what to tell you.

 

To me, these both look pretty terrible and I really hope CF has limited camera zoom/angles and way less clutter then either, regardless of what the combat system looks like.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lShM1OY_Bgo

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjN4075cdfs

 


 

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Is it twitchy? Because if something's twitchy, I ain't touching it.

 

Neverwinter? No, not at all. TERA has good combat as well and is also not twitchy.

Edited by leiloni
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I'm late the to party, but that was so insanely awful that it made me physically ill. I can understand somebody promoting Mount & Blade, Darksouls, Tera, Guildwars 2, Wildstar, etc. combat. Darkfail was one of the absolute worst games I've ever played and the terrible combat was a huge part of that.

OJN1n7E.png

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Is it twitchy? Because if something's twitchy, I ain't touching it.

 

Hate to tell you, but just because the devs have stated that they don't want to make combat "too twitchy" doesn't mean that it won't require twitch skills. If you don't want real aiming in a game, this one probably won't be for you.

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Guess logic is in short supply in San Antonio, TX.

Im not even part of this conversation and I'm starting to hate you.

 

(Someone from San Antonio)

"Fear not now for your mortal life, for your sanctum is here among the dead."

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I've given a lot of thought on how to make combat not f-ing suck a shlong, and there's only one game, which combat system I've fallen in love with.

It's Bungie's "Oni".

It's simple. It's effective. It's fun. It's simply perfect. I can't find any videos displaying it's combat system exclsively, but if you're interested - there are a ton of letsplays on the youtubes.

 

THAT kind of CS in Crowfall I'd love to see. 

I played a beta of Oni at a Macworld, when it still had multiplayer arena combat and it was freaking AMAZING! It was great how much you could do with so few controls, well worth playing in single player and a single great tragedy that it never had the multiplayer in the final release.

CF_Karg.png

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Hate to tell you, but just because the devs have stated that they don't want to make combat "too twitchy" doesn't mean that it won't require twitch skills. If you don't want real aiming in a game, this one probably won't be for you.

 

That's not true. There are plenty of action combat games where aiming isn't terribly difficult.

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I played a beta of Oni at a Macworld, when it still had multiplayer arena combat and it was freaking AMAZING! It was great how much you could do with so few controls, well worth playing in single player and a single great tragedy that it never had the multiplayer in the final release.

Amazing, I didn't even know there WAS a multiplayer.

 

Hate to tell you, but just because the devs have stated that they don't want to make combat "too twitchy" doesn't mean that it won't require twitch skills. If you don't want real aiming in a game, this one probably won't be for you.

I don't want bunny hoppers and constant WASDing ruin M-MUH IMMERSION.

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Darkfall was so bad... I mean, don't get me wrong, it had some good. But, the good was ruined by the bad.

 

It's bad enough that in modern military shooters that are simulating everything under the sun down to the perfect animation of whiskers on people's faces, you can still slide your mouse across your desk and have your character spin completely around 17 times. Or jump-sniping... I don't even know what to say about jump-sniping.

 

Annnnywho, the point is that 90% of the problem with free-aim/action combat is in the lack of limitation. In movement, in aiming, etc. If you aim your bow and let loose an arrow at your opponent, and he can get out of the way of it, then back into the way of it, then back out of the way of it 17 times before it even reaches him, you have problems. Whether it's the movement speed's fault, or the arrow speed's fault, etc. However it works out, it's got to be feasible to actually hit targets if you free-aim. It's fine to be able to miss, but... you can't just say "Don't worry... that ONE time you hit, out of 100, it'll be so worth it!" Really? Will it kill like 17 guys? That one arrow? 'Cause if not, I don't see how it was worth being useless for 100 shots.

 

So, I dunno, I'm curious to see all the exact details of the combat system ACE crafts here (DETAILS! *salivate*), but just their general decision-making approach in the design process, plus information like that physics and inertia are being utilized in things in motion throughout the world, have me pretty worry-free. But, they definitely just need to make sure incredibly ridiculous stuff like jumping in combat doesn't constantly make you harder to hit (even if it provides you no other benefit). I don't understand why anyone ever allowed that to become a thing. Someone needs to make a multiplayer shooter in which everyone's just a ball of flubber, and you constantly bounce off of everything in the level and pick up speed the longer you're in a state of bouncing. The whole time, everyone's trying to no-scope everyone else. :)

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That would be a nightmare. ESO used autolocking arrows that perfectly arrive at your target unless it collides with something else before it arrives. I am hoping for real aiming, but with appropriate balancing to offset the need for accuracy compared to melee swings.

 

Because arrows deal more damage than a spear impalement or a gash across the stomach?, or because they won't have any reach so they have no practical advantage over melee attacks?

a52d4a0d-044f-44ff-8a10-ccc31bfa2d87.jpg          Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... Than if they're upset, they'll be a mile away, and barefoot :P

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Many of the posters on this topic seem to be anxious over a combat mechanic that hasn't been fleshed out, worse yet they seem to be framing the discussion in the context of a one on one encounter without other abilities, terrain, stealth or cover. The philosophy of Crowfall is group PvP for objectives in a strategic environment. Chances are in group PvP you will have a difficult time figuring out where an arrow is coming from even on clear terrain. Once you add in stealth, choke points, cover and elevation an archer will be difficult for a target to single out, and should have the time to make skill shots count regardless of the aiming and time to target mechanics. What worked well as a counter in DAOC for instance was assigning stealth scouts to search for snipers and other stealth characters. Ranged characters have an inherent advantage, range. It follows that arrow aiming be a bit more difficult than melee or even spells that can have AOE or large hit box and still make sense in a strategic game. An arrow is a precise projectile. If the developers give archers the best range in the game and corresponding lethality from a distance shouldn't they make aiming more difficult with or without a reticle? And, as long as ranged combat is immersive, competitive and strategic won't it be what the developers have promised? I don't think we'll need superhero characters that can thrash every other archetype in 1 on 1 PvP to enjoy this game. Just strategically valuable characters that when well played and utilized to their strengths can change the course of a battle.  

Edited by Illuminist
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