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Khoth

My issue with the new combat in Big World

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Yep and it's a tough problem. The most poignant example of this underestimation is myrmidon's Berserk. If you go back and watch the initial video by blair or read the blurb, he was insisting that people would have trouble mitigating berserker crash. In reality, there are only 2 reasons anyone would miss a berserker crash: somebody stunned/suppressed you at the perfect time (onus is massively on them, this is not the failing they were thinking of) or the server thinks your crash ends at a totally different time which sometimes happens now (a bug). So if you've ever wondered why berserk is so strong, it's because it was balanced around the assumption that people would regularly screw up and not hit 2 or C at the right time a good portion of the time.

 

I think the problem might be that the developers are just pretty bad at video games. I don't know a less harsh way to say that. If you look at their past development history, or even the games they talk the most about enjoying, there's just no reason to think that they would be good at a game like Crowfall. So the challenge for them is to make a game that they are going to suck at, while still being able to bullseye what's hard for their average player to do. Now that's developing on hard mode!

 

 

Blair on berserker crash:

 

https://youtu.be/tBGA_K9XHrY?t=113

You can literally set a simple macro on a programmable mouse or KB that presses and holds "2" 15 seconds after "6" and it's automatic. I played with it this weekend and it works like a charm. I did have buggs after the first several uses, but it was with the macro software.

 

I can't see how that was ever going to be a balancing feature to that crazy over the top ability.

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You can literally set a simple macro on a programmable mouse or KB that presses and holds "2" 15 seconds after "6" and it's automatic. I played with it this weekend and it works like a charm. I did have buggs after the first several uses, but it was with the macro software.

 

I can't see how that was ever going to be a balancing feature to that crazy over the top ability.

 

WB admits to 3rd party program use.  Clear violation of the EULA, permaban worthy. 


Maj, Keeper of Da Plank - The Shipwrecked Pirates

 

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Imo combat should be a priority focus, it needs to be great and feel right, I would prefer more resources pushed into that personally even if some sorta new goal is launched just for it. If combat is bad in a pvp focused game then rip.

Been saying this the whole time, but even some people in this very thread did not agree that combat was the most important part of crowfall, which I think is absolutely ridiculous.

 

They have been improving combat though, and they said they will never be done trying to refine it, so I think in the end it will be ok.  Mainly they need to make attacks less newb-friendly by tightening them up and making them actually require decent aim.  Aside from that they need to really make sure that the combat they do have can be optimized properly later on for larger battles and stuff in regards to latency and performance.

 

I think people need to listen to what the devs say more though.  JTC says combat is the most important aspect to get right, some people just flat out ignore it. 

 

Tblair says skill tree is mainly there for progressive stat boost and you will customize your character through other means, people just flat out ignore it.

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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WB admits to 3rd party program use.  Clear violation of the EULA, permaban worthy. 

Can't tell if serious or not.

 

If so, it's head shake worthy.  Now is the time for all us TESTERS to see just where the bend and break points are and report them, and how exploits may be done.  

 

Even talking about swinging around the ban hammer at this stage is just daft.

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Mouse and keyboard macros exist and will be used in EVERY game.

 

Yup, and there are only a few  general options because you cannot rely on the "honour" system for people to not do it:

 

Design the game around their existence, rendering their use unecessary.

 

Design the game around the assumption everyone will use them, penalizing people who don't.

 

Implement extremely invasive anti-cheat software.

 

Its a no win situation imo. 

Edited by potatomcwhiskey

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Can't tell if serious or not.

 

If so, it's head shake worthy.  Now is the time for all us TESTERS to see just where the bend and break points are and report them, and how exploits may be done.  

 

Even talking about swinging around the ban hammer at this stage is just daft.

 

He's kidding, but I find it hilarious that this is something that's even being questioned.  Gaming hardware (mice/keyboards/gamepads) are designed around building and using macros.  Are these macros going to make the player any better in an action combat game like this?  I doubt it. But like was previously said, there's nothing that can be done to prevent it.

 

I hate to use this as an example, but I seem to remember WoW (and correct me if I'm wrong) actually having macro functions built into the game.  It gives the option to use them to everyone playing, instead of just the ones crafty enough to use a 3rd party program.

 

I guess I understand the initial reaction of.. "3rd party program, oh my!"  but let's make a clear distinction between a macro utility that fires off a succession of buttons and something like an aimbot, keycloner, fully automated character, etc.


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He's kidding, but I find it hilarious that this is something that's even being questioned.  Gaming hardware (mice/keyboards/gamepads) are designed around building and using macros.  Are these macros going to make the player any better in an action combat game like this?  I doubt it. But like was previously said, there's nothing that can be done to prevent it.

 

I hate to use this as an example, but I seem to remember WoW (and correct me if I'm wrong) actually having macro functions built into the game.  It gives the option to use them to everyone playing, instead of just the ones crafty enough to use a 3rd party program.

 

I guess I understand the initial reaction of.. "3rd party program, oh my!"  but let's make a clear distinction between a macro utility that fires off a succession of buttons and something like an aimbot, keycloner, fully automated character, etc.

 

They could ban the use of all peripherals that include a macro capability.  If my computer knows I'm using a razer boomslang why cant the game?


Maj, Keeper of Da Plank - The Shipwrecked Pirates

 

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They could ban the use of all peripherals that include a macro capability.  If my computer knows I'm using a razer boomslang why cant the game?

 

You would want to target the driver process that allows someone to manipulate the buttons on their mouse, not the mouse its-self.  My mouse is a G400s and nothing anywhere says its a Logitech on my PC, because I am using it as a PnP device.  Even under the details tab if I click Manufacturer it says Microsoft lol.


 

Formerly known as - AmazingTacoBurito

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You would want to target the driver process that allows someone to manipulate the buttons on their mouse, not the mouse its-self.  My mouse is a G400s and nothing anywhere says its a Logitech on my PC, because I am using it as a PnP device.  Even under the details tab if I click Manufacturer it says Microsoft lol.

 

Again WB finds exploitive ways around the new restrictions.


Maj, Keeper of Da Plank - The Shipwrecked Pirates

 

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I hate to use this as an example, but I seem to remember WoW (and correct me if I'm wrong) actually having macro functions built into the game.  It gives the option to use them to everyone playing, instead of just the ones crafty enough to use a 3rd party program.

 

Yeah, WoW had it built in. Used a lot of trinket activations or stacking ability activations and such that aren't on the GCD.

 

Also could be used to call out specific things when you used them.


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Again WB finds exploitive ways around the new restrictions.

Frankly, this is a pointless battle, there are ALWAYS ways around this type of stuff. If you want a game that moots out macros, you need to design it so that it is harder to macro. IMO the design of the Myrm "6" ability is kinda bad... I get the idea making it a "berserker" rage type thing, but I think the acronym KISS is what they should focus on. Keep it simple stupid. Just make the damn thing a damage+DR buff and maybe add some sort of lifesteal to each attack. It will effectively do the same thing or a similar one. Having the heart mechanic is kinda cool, but what I would RATHER see is:

 

Heart mechanic fills up based on outgoing + income damage while NOT using "6". You activate "6" and it gives you DR buff + damage buff + lifesteal based on how full the heart meter was.

 

So if you use it right off the bat, the DR/Damage/Lifesteal benefits are very small. If you take a ton of damage, the heart meter is filled to full, and THEN use "6" and it gives you 12-15 seconds of high DR/Damage/Lifesteal. Almost like a "retaliate" type mechanic. So the Myrm has to choose carefully when to use it. Do you save up your "heart meter" to get a FULL DR/Damage/Lifesteal bonus or do you pop it when its 25% full to only get PART of the benefits etc. 

 

I think this would be a much better way to use this heart/berserk type thing IMO. This arguably takes more skill too .

 

I am actually very happy with how the combat is currently.  The only way it could be improved is if it was more like BDO, but then you start going down the path to twitch game play which is something they stated they do not want.  Cannot have root motion and slow animations together.  Either root motion and very fast animations, or no root motion and slower animations (current phase).

 

Also on the topic of Ranger arrows, they need to speed those things up by like 5 times and widen hitboxes by about 5% and go from there.

I never thought of this, and I think you are correct. In my post below yours I listed Neverwinter Online as a game with good root mechanics which added "weight" to attacks (makes them less floaty) but Neverwinter also had FAST attack animations. Crowfall has slower animations and no root. Which IMO is what makes it feel floaty. 

 

I think you can find a healthy balance. I know Neverwinter was root mechanics but added "movement" on LMB attacks, so it wasnt as if you were totally rooted but rather would take a step forward with each LMB attack. This makes it feel less rooted while making it still rooted. I think this could work in Crowfall with LMB. 

 

I think the "1-6" abilities shouldnt have root animation on them since they are slow/longer animations. So really its just the LMB attacks they could refine with slight root mechanics that would make it feel better IMO

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I don't see what the big deal is.... As soon as they make stuns and knock ups actually interrupt the Mino #2 it will be a non issue.  Also if they start adding some of those disciplines and abilities that are hard counters to berserk it will be super easy to blow up a mino.  At this point there is no point really whining about it.  Minos are not hard to deal with now with a half decent group.  They just have a cheesy amount of CC and the C is broken strong.

 

If bads want to macro it... so be it.  There is nothing ACE can do to limit hardware and peripherals.  Some people have to use those sort of things because they are disabled.


"Float like a Butterfly.... Sting like a Misplaced Decimal Point" - Xarrayne 2018

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Talk about burying the lead ...

 

The point here is that avoiding a crash is so simple it can be automated by a 45 year old with zero tech skills. It is not some difficult maneuver that balances the brokenness of Myrmidon.

 

@Destrin, TY for the advice on getting the G13. You're right. It works well.

Edited by coolwaters

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Talk about burying the lead ...

 

The point here is that avoiding a crash is so simple it can be automated by a 45 year old with zero tech skills. It is not some difficult maneuver that balances the brokenness of Myrmidon.

 

@Destrin, TY for the advice on getting the G13. You're right. It works well.

How does one play with out G13 anymore?

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@Destrin, TY for the advice on getting the G13. You're right. It works well.

 

It does work well, but with great power comes great responsibility.  Do not use it for evil.  Do you have that fessor jump dash macroed too?

Edited by destrin

"Float like a Butterfly.... Sting like a Misplaced Decimal Point" - Xarrayne 2018

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