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Khoth

My issue with the new combat in Big World

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It does work well, but with great power comes great responsibility.  Do not use it for evil.  Do you have that fessor jump dash macroed too?

I do but man if I lag just a hair it does not work like I want it . :(

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It does work well, but with great power comes great responsibility.  Do not use it for evil.  Do you have that fessor jump dash macroed too?

I think that physics effect where you can jump at the end of the dash is awesome. I hope they leave it in.

 

Are you suggesting that using a programmable mouse or KB (such as the one you just recommended to me that I buy) to complete a combo or use a keystroke is somehow against the rules?

 

That would be rich.

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I think that physics effect where you can jump at the end of the dash is awesome. I hope they leave it in.

 

Are you suggesting that using a programmable mouse or KB (such as the one you just recommended to me that I buy) to complete a combo or use a keystroke is somehow against the rules?

 

That would be rich.

 

You have always been a fan of the physics stuff.  I just think that it's a little silly that a single jump can double the effectiveness of an ability. In any other game that would either be called a bug, or an exploit.

 

In time you will find that automating it gives you less control over when and how things happen.  Not saying it's against the rules.... just lame.  Although, I'm pretty sure it is stated in their TOS some where that it is against the rules.

 

To be clear, i have been using a G13 or something similar for almost 7 years.  I tried macroing skill rotations on it years ago in other games and found that it wasn't really worth it. You don't have the ability to adjust and make on the fly decisions if you lock your self in to a predetermined roto.  It will most likely end up getting you killed more than a few times.

Edited by destrin

"Float like a Butterfly.... Sting like a Misplaced Decimal Point" - Xarrayne 2018

YouTube Channel

 

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Coolwaters old man hands need all the help they can get.  Hy'shen hugs Cools, Hy'shen hugs!

 

Honestly, I don't really see the crash example Cools provided as being a big deal! I think most players would prefer making a situational mitigation choice between the cows ultimate/bullrush. The use of macros can actually hurt a player more than help them in many situations.  If you look at the GCD's for many combo abilities, the base GCD for the combo trigger is shorter than the abilities further down the combo chain.  In the short amount of time I've played a fessor I feel like macros to trigger nados / stuns would actually hurt my overall performance more than help it.  With everyone being in constant motion in GvG you need to be able to use that extra 2 seconds to decide if it makes sense to progress into a chained ability.

 

Macros do make tray swap classes less painful to play.  There is a big difference fighting a ranger/druid who has mapped out macros for auto swapping and one who has not.  Min/max players will use absolutely everything possible to maintain the upper hand.  As technology advances the tools for min/maxing continue to get more complex.

 

Some of you can argue for fairness until you are blue in the face, it's not going to change the fact that people will do anything to win.

 

To illustrate how technology is changing how we play games check out Confused Monkeh's video showing off voice commander.  I can already think of many ways voice commander could be used to time feedback for interrupts and other activities.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYgFriRo5FQ

Edited by cyjax

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As soon as they make stuns and knock ups actually interrupt the Mino #2 it will be a non issue.  Also if they start adding some of those disciplines and abilities that are hard counters to berserk it will be super easy to blow up a mino.  

 

This is ONE of the reasons I dislike the current ability. Its going to become a huge crutch that will be able to be hard countered by good players, which will in turn make it a very noob/cheesy ability for solo or casual players but COULD end up making the Myrm worthless in high level play if all it takes is a heal depression + 1 well timed CC to blow the Myrm up. This is EXACTLY what worries me about the crash and why IMO it should be changed.

 

The point here is that avoiding a crash is so simple it can be automated by a 45 year old with zero tech skills. It is not some difficult maneuver that balances the brokenness of Myrmidon.

And this is my SECOND point about the Crash. Its really not THAT hard to use "skill wise" to avoid it. It turns the Myrm class into a very bland class of spamming 6 anytime its up with ZERO though into "when" to use "6" and then literally takes very small amount of brain power to mitigate the crash.

 

What you will then see is all the "ability" or "power" of the effectiveness of the Myrm, all be put on the shoulders of the opponent. A myrm will be a class that will become easily hard countered by opponents who can CC at the right time which removes "control" of how effective you can be at Myrm from your hands and into another players hands, which the end result = frustration.

 

I really think my proposal would alleviate this, puts control in the Myrms hands, makes it require more skill/thought/timing 

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Again WB finds exploitive ways around the new restrictions.

 

Can't remap/macro the buttons without using the driver software that is supplied with the device.  At that point in time Windows would recognize it as a Logitech device using said driver.  But why would you want to restrict the use of mice because someone has a driver installed.  Wouldn't you rather block the executable that remaps the buttons on the mouse instead?  This isn't finding ways around restrictions, it is finding a better way to deal with said exploits :P.


 

Formerly known as - AmazingTacoBurito

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Can't remap/macro the buttons without using the driver software that is supplied with the device.  At that point in time Windows would recognize it as a Logitech device using said driver.  But why would you want to restrict the use of mice because someone has a driver installed.  Wouldn't you rather block the executable that remaps the buttons on the mouse instead?  This isn't finding ways around restrictions, it is finding a better way to deal with said exploits :P.

 

Some people rely on remapping the mouse keys for their basic keybinding abilities in games. This discussion is dumb and off topic. Let's get back to talking combat because as others said a page ago, that's easily the most important thing to get right in this game.

Edited by Leiloni

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Some people rely on remapping the mouse keys for their basic keybinding abilities in games. This discussion is dumb and off topic. Let's get back to talking combat because as others said a page ago, that's easily the most important thing to get right in this game.

Agreed.

 

So a quick summary of what my impression is.

 

Attacks like LMB feel floaty because there is no root mechanic to it, so you can strafe/move while attacking which is what lends to the floaty mechanic (imo).

Then you have your "ability" powers 1-6. That are slower/longer/televised abilities. 

 

So this goes back to the two styles you can have.

 

Slower animations with no root, or faster animations with root.

 

Personally I like the slower animations on abilities and having those as fixed animations feels fine. But the LMB attacks I think could use a root mechanic IMO. They are fast, and I think you could build in a "forward step" animation to them, so its not 100% fixed, but would be more natural in moving your character forward a step with each attack. I would put a SMALL root on the attack, not one that encompasses the entire animation but if thinking from a 0%-100% "animation, I would 'root' the area from ~25% through ~75% so there is "windup" where you are not rooted, as the main portion of the attack is hitting, you are rooted, and then as you are doing your follow through on the animation, you are not rooted. Something like that I think would be less floaty. 

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You have always been a fan of the physics stuff.  I just think that it's a little silly that a single jump can double the effectiveness of an ability. In any other game that would either be called a bug, or an exploit.

 

In time you will find that automating it gives you less control over when and how things happen.  Not saying it's against the rules.... just lame.  Although, I'm pretty sure it is stated in their TOS some where that is is against the rules.

 

To be clear, i have been using a G13 or something similar for almost 7 years.  I tried macroing skill rotations on it years ago in other games and found that it wasn't really worth it. You don't have the ability to adjust and make on the fly decisions if you lock your self in to a predetermined roto.  It will most likely end up getting you killed more than a few times.

Anyone getting double the distance on a jump scoot is almost certainly dying from fall damage.

 

All that's happening with this "exploit" is pressing the space bar at the end of a RMB, which, when well timed and in ground that is even slightly downhill, carrys your momentum forward thanks to the physics engine. It's somewhere around 40-50% extra distance when done well, can cause severe fall damage on significant terrain and can be difficult to pull off. I think it's awesome. Super fun to play with. I do like the physics, as you say. I also think it should stay.

 

As for macros in the G13, I don't view pressing the 1 key twice in succession as any kind of player skill. The power you actually want to use is just buried behind what we refer to as a combo. To the extent that "combo" is required to stun a target, I've got an evil confession to make. I macro 1, 1 to a single key.

 

Horrid hax, I know. I posted about this over a year ago, explaining that the combo system was often an irritation in my view and that I was bypassing it where I could using my old, cheap logitech mouse. 2, E, E isn't any more "skillful," but longer chains carry their own risk to automate. That can get you killed, fast, which is what you're getting at in your last paragraph. I agree. Committing to a long chain of combos is a bad idea as often as it is a good idea. I think the combo system has issues and I'd rather all keys be able to be remapped effectively. The programmable mouse and KB allow you to do that now, and as I said, I've posted about it for over a year. I have no idea why it suddenly became click-bait. Convenient argument I'd imagine.

 

edit: @Cyjax Man, you have no idea how much help these old hands need. More than Logitech can provide I assure you. And I do not use a macro on Myrmidon. I don't even play it, generally. I did that as an experiment to make sure it could be done. I posted about it here to illustrate how comical it is to argue that the "skill" required to hit the 2 button somehow balances a clearly overpowered Archetype.

Edited by coolwaters

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From the Rules of conduct:

 

You agree that your use of the Service shall be lawful and that you will comply with Art+Craft's usage rules. In accordance with the above, as an example, and not as a limitation, you agree not to use the Service in order to:

...

  • Use , develop, distribute, or publicly inform other members of "auto" software programs, "macro" software programs or other "cheat utility" software programs or applications except as explicitly sanctioned by Art+Craft. This includes any method or means which modifies the software code provided by Art+Craft or that interferes with and/or modifies the transmissions to and from your computer and the Art+Craft service.
  • Exploit, distribute or publicly inform other members of any game error, miscue or bug which gives an unintended advantage.

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"Float like a Butterfly.... Sting like a Misplaced Decimal Point" - Xarrayne 2018

YouTube Channel

 

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From the Rules of conduct:

 

You agree that your use of the Service shall be lawful and that you will comply with Art+Craft's usage rules. In accordance with the above, as an example, and not as a limitation, you agree not to use the Service in order to:

...

  • Use , develop, distribute, or publicly inform other members of "auto" software programs, "macro" software programs or other "cheat utility" software programs or applications except as explicitly sanctioned by Art+Craft. This includes any method or means which modifies the software code provided by Art+Craft or that interferes with and/or modifies the transmissions to and from your computer and the Art+Craft service.
  • Exploit, distribute or publicly inform other members of any game error, miscue or bug which gives an unintended advantage.

...

A mouse or keyboard that can macro doesn't violate any of that, FYI. Macros just mean you have to hit the button the same amount of times as the number of ability's in it. Scripting and automation would be violating the rules though.

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Anyone getting double the distance on a jump scoot is almost certainly dying from fall damage.

 

All that's happening with this "exploit" is pressing the space bar at the end of a RMB, which, when well timed and in ground that is even slightly downhill, carrys your momentum forward thanks to the physics engine. It's somewhere around 40-50% extra distance when done well, can cause severe fall damage on significant terrain and can be difficult to pull off. I think it's awesome. Super fun to play with. I do like the physics, as you say. I also think it should stay.

 

I wondered what made you teleport over to the left in this duel....

 

https://youtu.be/Cqjnh34HMns?t=39s

 

NtNjwHM.gif

 

looks like a mini druid blink...

Edited by Tinnis

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pray tell, where is your bug report regarding this dash jump....? [that I see you spamming in ALL of the clips of the "ganks" and duels we engaged in outside of this one example]

 

oh it doesn't exist? how interesting...

 

Sure about that are you?

 

We reported this immediately after discovering it by email, over a week ago. I also addressed it with Gordon directly in a letter sent by regular mail, suggesting that it remain in the game as a feature because, as I said, it's way cool. I had to send them something anyway. I wasn't just writing to report the bug, but I threw it in as a p.s.in supplementation of Angelmar's report by email.

 

Jesus you're quick to assume everyone acts like the few unnamed folks who used those ridiculous weapons without ever reporting them. (-W- reported those weapons, btw, in case you're curious about that, in thoroughly documented video submissions, also by email - shortly before East became East 2 and they all went poof ...  You're welcome.)

 

I find your lack of faith disturbing. You don't know us, clearly.

Edited by coolwaters

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Sure about that are you?

 

We reported this immediately after discovering it by email, over a week ago. I also addressed it with Gordon directly in a letter sent by regular mail, suggesting that it remain in the game as a feature because, as I said, it's way cool. I had to send them something anyway. I wasn't just writing to report the bug, but I threw it in as a p.s.in supplementation of Angelmar's report by email.

 

Jesus you're quick to assume everyone acts like the few unnamed folks who used those ridiculous weapons without ever reporting them. (-W- reported those weapons, btw, in case you're curious about that, in thoroughly documented video submissions, also by email - shortly before East became East 2 and they all went poof ...  You're welcome.)

 

I find your lack of faith disturbing. You don't know us, clearly.

 

my mistake then, was only judging by what was visible in the bug and feedback threads (which I try to read completely), i hadn't previously heard about this bug yet =)

Edited by Tinnis

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my mistake then, was only judging by what was visible in the bug and feedback threads, i hadn't previously heard about this bug at all anywhere yet =)

I imagine that's because it doesn't significantly affect balance.

 

It's still less useful than Druid's blink and Fessor is far squishier and has no heals. It's also not that easy to do, depending on several factors. I hope they leave it be for a test or so to let us see how it plays out. It makes the Fessor a great downhill chaser of runners, for sure, and you can use terrain to your advantage to pull it off after you learn how / when it works.

Edited by coolwaters

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