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keiotyk

Druid game play is tedious

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Jumped into the game for the first time this weekend, and have mostly spent my time playing a druid, and then a confessor.

 

Confessor was a nice, simple, blow things up character.

 

The Druid however... was kind of tedious to play.

Her balls of life, if you can set them up, can one shot stuff - Neat. Could make for some nasty ambushes.

I found the essence mechanic interesting... insofar as it prevents excessive heal spam.

But it was horribly tedious too. If I wanted to kill anything, I HAD to spend 30 seconds spamming heals to have essence to power my death tray.

 

Any fight verses a mobile foe that you don't get the jump on is just... ugh. Run around spamming heals until you have the essence to fight back for 30 seconds.

This just isn't fun. Plain and simple. The mechanics on paper seem interesting, but functionally, they're tedious and frustrating.

 

I imagine that in group play it's less obvious, because more people need healing and there's much less wasted healing, but if you walk around solo, harvest some leather or mess with some of the undead, and it's quickly more annoying than anything else.

 

 

I believe it's been done in other games already, but a pendulum style interplay of life and death would probably make for more interesting game play, and not require this wasted time preparing for combat. Linking more powerful skills for either life or death to having built up a minimum resource around a 0 point seems logical, with possibly a penalty for extremes in either direction. (I feel this was the mechanic on the Archmage in Warhammer Online, but I can't remember for certain)

 

Or you could make the effectiveness of skills be linked to your attunement along an essence (life force?) scale. But make it a scale from -100 to +100, with 0 as the base. Death spells drain your life force to use as damage - the less essence you have, the weaker your damage. Life spells will restore your life force, but as you build up essence, you can no longer direct it to provide meaningful healing to anybody. Too much of a good thing is a bad thing; medicines become poisons at excessive dosages.

 

You could keep the damage on holding excessive essence, and maybe make too little essence weaken your character, slowing movement, reducing stamina recovery or similar. You could conceivably have excessive essence make you faster and more vigorous... Until you go supernova of course.

 

This would make the druid more of a tight rope walker, and allow more flexibility in her opening play. It would also make the character significantly more challenging to play however. Though I doubt anyone thinking of playing the druid is presuming it would be an easy archetype to play.

 

More importantly, I think it would make her a more enjoyable experience, while maintaining her current playstyle as an option.

Edited by keiotyk

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I feel the exact same way about the druid, got to waste random heals just to power up my dps tray only to be able to use it for a few seconds then i gotta heal randomly even allies dont need healing as often as i gotta switch trays


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I've heard this comment sooooooo much lately.

 

The tray swapping is dull, boring and feels like a job.

 

I'd love to play a druid. I thought it would be my main. It's not. Fessor feels soooo much better. The tray swap mechanic needs to go the way of the Do Do bird or the swap needs to be made a world smoother (instant fellas - make this thing responsive, because it isn't).

 

I'm not even sure that would fix the issue. It's an ineffective support in the shadow of the Lego and it's a wholly ineffective DPS now as well.

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Druid is supposed to be a support character, so her damage will be low.  The game is not meant to be played solo either.  Each archetype is supposed to have tools the other doesn't so you have to rely on each other.  Also, balance is not really a thing right now, it will come.

 

Also if you are running low on essence you can hit 6 to sacrifice some HP and turn it in to essence. Also don't forget to use your buffs in the heal tray as a druid to either make less essence or make more with your heals.  I think my biggest gripe with the druid right now is that Healing Rain is so easy to miss cause no one can see it anymore till it the rain starts falling.  The AoE ground effect is impossible to see with all the foliage and with all the movement now it's become a very ineffective healing tool.

 

In a group situation the legio outperforms the druid at the moment cause it's too easy to just hit 6 and C to hit everyone in range.  Also the Druid can't be healing 100% of the time like the legio.  The druid has better on demand burst heals with properly placed clumps of orbs and Will O' Wisps IF you have enough slack in your essence.  It's also on your group members to be watching their own health and grab orbs when needed.

 

I like the tray swapping.  You have to play balanced with the druid... I'm sure it will get better with the healing promotion for her as well.

Edited by destrin

"Float like a Butterfly.... Sting like a Misplaced Decimal Point" - Xarrayne 2018

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I think the base essence cap just needs to be a little higher. A full essence bar should burn a mob down. Maybe bump down the base essence cost of death tray abilities and vice versa. I know there are tools to do some of that, but I don't think they are enough.

 

Alternatively, just make the tray swap more responsive IMO. Make it instant, with no cooldown (why is there any CD on this anyway? We're encouraging frequent tray swaps) Make it feel more smooth and less abrupt, like the Fessor gameplay.

 

p.s. Destrin, you were right about the G13. TY. The analog stick does need some sort of mod, but overall I like it.

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I think the tray swapping needs to be removed and instead her other tray's abilities be added as part of combo's chains that can only be cast with essence. 

 

The druid is the only case where the combo chains would actually make sense.

 

 

The druid right now is so passive in game play its almost useless in group fights. At best, played at a extremely high level it can be a pest. All the other time its....EASILY replaced with almost any other archetype (except for champion).


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p.s. Destrin, you were right about the G13. TY. The analog stick does need some sort of mod, but overall I like it.

 

off topic.... but it should only need the logitech software that came with it.


"Float like a Butterfly.... Sting like a Misplaced Decimal Point" - Xarrayne 2018

YouTube Channel

 

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My frustration comes from being unable to do any damage without essence. And that building that essence can be tedious.

 

Also, I don't like turning health into damage at the best of times - I like it even less on a relatively frail character, and with rather low efficiency. I'd be better just spamming heals for the amount of essence vs. health burnt.

 

Personally, I find it more logical to build up essence by stealing it first - Vampirically strip the essence from others to heal your team.

Edited by keiotyk

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 mostly spent my time playing a druid, and then a confessor.

 

Confessor was a nice, simple, blow things up character.

 

I imagine that in group play it's less obvious, because more people need healing and there's much less wasted healing, but if you walk around solo, harvest some leather or mess with some of the undead, and it's quickly more annoying than anything else.

 

If you want to play a ranged attack sorcerer, you should choose the confessor for now. I don't see any sense in making the druid become a confessor. For that's what we would call a confessor, see? The druid just fits into a different role. His/hers. Take it or drop it.

 

And, just like destrin said, primarily crowfall is a teamplay game. You can play alone, but then you will have to live with the disadvantages. And i don't see any wasted heals, simply nuke you heal orbs and use all your buffs.

 

However, we are not at the end of the line. The druid will get promotion classes, too. And at least one of them will be focused on the damage tree. So i wouldn't worry too much about that -- even if i would agree.


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Perhaps the essence could enhance instead of a direct fuel.

 

Like 50% essence boosts damage by a amount but it slowly drains essence so it does less and less damage. So you can still do damage with out essence, just its not very effective unless you pump it out.


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Personally, I find it more logical to build up essence by stealing it first - Vampirically strip the essence from others to heal your team.

 

A good suggestion. I like the idea. Maybe it will be or become a part of the promotion class skills.


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If you want to play a ranged attack sorcerer, you should choose the confessor for now. I don't see any sense in making the druid become a confessor. For that's what we would call a confessor, see? The druid just fits into a different role. His/hers. Take it or drop it.

 

And, just like destrin said, primarily crowfall is a teamplay game. You can play alone, but then you will have to live with the disadvantages. And i don't see any wasted heals, simply nuke you heal orbs and use all your buffs.

 

However, we are not at the end of the line. The druid will get promotion classes, too. And at least one of them will be focused on the damage tree. So i wouldn't worry too much about that -- even if i would agree.

The problem isn't that the Druid is unique as compared to the Confessor. The problem is that the Druid feels like poorly made socks when played, whether played well or played poorly. It feels awkward and clunky and it's because of the delay / lock out on tray swap. It's essentially a global cooldown I think, but if feels awful and awkward.

 

edit: in other words, they clearly intend for frequent (constant more like) tray swaps because you need like 3 full essence bars to kill anything. If they really want us swapping that often, make it suck less to do that. That's all. Right now, after using an ability from one tray, you have to sit there and watch and wait until you can swap the tray or click T several times and sometimes all of us accidentally pop that skill in the one tray that you intended for the other tray, not because you forgot which tray you were in, but because the interface is either clunky or locked you out and didn't swap the tray when you told it to.

 

edit2: Another issue is the nerf to Aura Emitter. It needed a nerf at one point, but it was nerfed again. Now the best stack buster in the game does not serve that purpose at all. Players ignore 400 damage ticks.

Edited by coolwaters

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edit: in other words, they clearly intend for frequent (constant more like) tray swaps because you need like 3 full essence bars to kill anything. If they really want us swapping that often, make it suck less to do that. That's all. Right now, after using an ability from one tray, you have to sit there and watch and wait until you can swap the tray or click T several times and sometimes all of us accidentally pop that skill in the one tray that you intended for the other tray, not because you forgot which tray you were in, but because the interface is either clunky or locked you out and didn't swap the tray when you told it to.

 

edit2: Another issue is the nerf to Aura Emitter. It needed a nerf at one point, but it was nerfed again. Now the best stack buster in the game does not serve that purpose at all. Players ignore 400 damage ticks.

 

This and this.

 

Need that stack buster -- already seeing the all leggo/mino meat trains.

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The druid is a blast. Much more engaging gameplay that the LegiOP.

 


 

The quick essence coffee jolt:

  • Empower
  • Cast 3 orbs
  • Swap and use sacrifice
  • Run over orbs

= 43% essence from 0 in a few seconds

 


 

In general you should be running around with a decent chunk of essence when roaming - I go for ~50-60% ish

Edited by Tinnis

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The druid is a blast. Much more engaging gameplay that the LegiOP.

 


 

The quick essence coffee jolt:

 

  • Empower
  • Cast 3 orbs
  • Swap and use sacrifice
  • Run over orbs
= 43% essence from 0 in a few seconds

 


 

In general you should be running around with a decent chunk of essence when roaming - I go for ~50-60% ish

I generally agree with you. Not here.

 

But far more than the tray dance, I have a problem with doing it with my shoelaces tied together. I don't see the Druid gameplay as engaging so much as less effective by far. No one is going to want a druid over a Lego for healing and they simply don't provide much past it. We've scrimmaged these comps dozens of times and it's consistent.

 

They need to make the swap far smoother and faster. Although I will say that contrary to the suggestion, from the time you finish the last orb in that string of abilities you just described it takes a few seconds just to switch trays and use the next ability because of the GCD or whatever delays the tray swap.

Edited by coolwaters

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I've heard this comment sooooooo much lately.

 

The tray swapping is dull, boring and feels like a job.

 

I'd love to play a druid. I thought it would be my main. It's not. Fessor feels soooo much better. The tray swap mechanic needs to go the way of the Do Do bird or the swap needs to be made a world smoother (instant fellas - make this thing responsive, because it isn't).

 

I'm not even sure that would fix the issue. It's an ineffective support in the shadow of the Lego and it's a wholly ineffective DPS now as well.

 

It's ineffective because the support elements of the druid aren't as direct and reliable as the legionnaire. I like the idea of the orbs, and that's supposed to be your "dependable heal", but it requires a lot of setup from both you and your team. In comparison the leggo just throws his heal in to a ball of people and somebody is getting healed. The leggo can also heal ALL the time (which I'm okay with, I mean he's a support, so he should be able to support), while the druid can only heal and support SOME of the time.

 

I'm not sure if tray swapping really makes sense on the druid either, but I guess they want to scope her toolset. Can't have 20 something buttons on your screen at the same time, that's way too many!  :rolleyes:

 

On a more serious point, it might cause some balance issues, but who knows.

 

I'm not sure the devs know what to do with supports, and they're forcing themselves to work with limited real estate on the action bar due to MVP.

Edited by helix

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A change as simple as a Lego nerf to healing capacity coupled with a smooth and immediate tray swap, with no delay or CD, might take care of two problems at once.

 

AE damaged needs bumped at a tad though. Its potential as a stack buster is awesome, but not at its current damage.

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A change as simple as a Lego nerf to healing capacity coupled with a smooth and immediate tray swap, with no delay or CD, might take care of two problems at once.

 

AE damaged needs bumped at a tad though. Its potential as a stack buster is awesome, but not at its current damage.

 

I feel like if they nerf healing on either of these archetypes that you'll just end up with bringing more of them to compensate. It'd make more sense to reduce the essence cost on some of the druids abilities, or get rid/reduce the cool downs and have essence be the limiter. It'd be nice to get healing springs or will-o-wisp off back-to-back for some nice burst healing.

 

The leggo just needs a complete rework. Keep a heal (tho I think this should be a strong melee heal) if you want it to be a support, but maybe replace the kit with other interesting support abilities. They just need to pick a route to go with the leggo.

 

And of course, introduce more anti-healing mechanics.

Edited by helix

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I generally agree with you. Not here.

 

But far more than the tray dance, I have a problem with doing it with my shoelaces tied together. I don't see the Druid gameplay as engaging so much as less effective by far. No one is going to want a druid over a Lego for healing and they simply don't provide much past it. We've scrimmaged these comps dozens of times and it's consistent.

 

They need to make the swap far smoother and faster. Although I will say that contrary to the suggestion, from the time you finish the last orb in that string of abilities you just described it takes a few seconds just to switch trays and use the next ability because of the GCD or whatever delays the tray swap.

 

i said more engaging gameplay, not effectiveness


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It's ineffective because the support elements of the druid aren't as direct and reliable as the legionnaire. I like the idea of the orbs, and that's supposed to be your "dependable heal", but it requires a lot of setup from both you and your team. In comparison the leggo just throws his heal in to a ball of people and somebody is getting healed. The leggo can also heal ALL the time (which I'm okay with, I mean he's a support, so he should be able to support), while the druid can only heal and support SOME of the time.

 

I'm not sure if tray swapping really makes sense on the druid either, but I guess they want to scope her toolset. Can't have 20 something buttons on your screen at the same time, that's way too many!  :rolleyes:

 

On a more serious point, it might cause some balance issues, but who knows.

 

I'm not sure the devs know what to do with supports, and they're forcing themselves to work with limited real estate on the action bar due to MVP.

 

We should not compare the leggo and the druid right now. For one i think the Leggo mindless healing a lot more boring than the playstile of the druid. The Life and Death concept is pretty awesome, but it needs some fine-tuning. Actually i think they still have to do that to all archetypes.

 

I agree the cooldown for the tray swap should be removed from the druid that, unlike the ranger who at most change trays twice a fight, need to do that to be playable.

 

I feel like if they nerf healing on either of these archetypes that you'll just end up with bringing more of them to compensate. It'd make more sense to reduce the essence cost on some of the druids abilities, or get rid/reduce the cool downs and have essence be the limiter. It'd be nice to get healing springs or will-o-wisp off back-to-back for some nice burst healing.

 

The leggo just needs a complete rework. Keep a heal (tho I think this should be a strong melee heal) if you want it to be a support, but maybe replace the kit with other interesting support abilities. They just need to pick a route to go with the leggo.

 

And of course, introduce more anti-healing mechanics.

 

I think the nerf should be only on the leggo, the druid heals at least need some skill or positioning. Leggos right now are basically imortals, once they start running it is over...

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