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keiotyk

Druid game play is tedious

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I think it'd of been smarter to swap the way the trays and essence work. Like Life uses up essence and Death builds it. Keeping the essence burn at 80% so that the Druid can't just go haam with dps but you'll at least be able to attack initially instead of running around dropping healing orbs for 30 seconds before you can. Also making LMB (orbs) not cost essence so that you have a heal at the ready in this scenario. This may not alleviate the issue being discussed but it'd help a little, giving the druid the ability to open up on a fight without the need for build up first. It also makes the sacrificing life thing more logical. Instead of sacrificing life to deal damage you can sac life to restore it to allies. Maybe it only makes sense to me >.>


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I think it'd of been smarter to swap the way the trays and essence work. Like Life uses up essence and Death builds it. Keeping the essence burn at 80% so that the Druid can't just go haam with dps but you'll at least be able to attack initially instead of running around dropping healing orbs for 30 seconds before you can. Also making LMB (orbs) not cost essence so that you have a heal at the ready in this scenario. This may not alleviate the issue being discussed but it'd help a little, giving the druid the ability to open up on a fight without the need for build up first. It also makes the sacrificing life thing more logical. Instead of sacrificing life to deal damage you can sac life to restore it to allies. Maybe it only makes sense to me >.>

problem with that is if you have other people to heal you you could go ham on dps forever in theory, where right now you are physically limited by the the amount of essence you have

Edited by Gummiel

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problem with that is if you have other people to heal you you could go ham on dps forever in theory, where right now you are physically limited by the the amount of essence you have

You'd still be taking essence burn so if you're insisting someone else is doing nothing but healing you I could see an issue I guess but you're essence would never deplete in the situation I've proposed. So you're forced to use your healing powers still to keep it in check. You could also make it so that you deal more damage the more essence you have over 80% but heal significantly less, and vice versa in that you'd heal more with less than 20% essence. So there is still a balance you would need to maintain. But I risk derailing the thread going too much into that.

Edited by Konquezt

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You'd still be taking essence burn so if you're insisting someone else is doing nothing but healing you I could see an issue I guess but you're essence would never deplete in the situation I've proposed. So you're forced to use your healing powers still to keep it in check. You could also make it so that you deal more damage the more essence you have over 80% but heal significantly less, and vice versa in that you'd heal more with less than 20% essence. So there is still a balance you would need to maintain. But I risk derailing the thread going too much into that.

But in a big group with lots of aoe healings being thrown around by other players (and maybe even allied ballistas if you were defending a keep) you could go ham on the dps and let other players heal you through it in theory as I already explained, while on your other hand the amount of healing you could be doing (as a SUPPORT AT) would be rather limited as there would be a hard cap by the amount of essence you would have. This seems awfully backwards for something that is supposed to be a support character, had the druid been labelled dps sure it might be able to work but for something labelled support its awfully backwards and thus makes no sense. At the very least with such a system for it to maintain a sort of support char feel you would have to up the amount of healing, her healing life tray powers were doing to compensate for the fact that it likely would end up a lot more bursty than it is currently (but then comes the problem than if you do make a burst character it should be really able to do it on demand when needed at least from the start of the battle, and should be able to be throw out immediately without much if any preparation if tat is the opportune time, or you might miss that window where it is indeed needed as you need to throw down some dps first to do the burst heal, by which time you friend(s) and/or yourself might be dead already, so again backwards compared to the idea of the character.

If you want to play a pure dps character that can go ham on dps from range, go play a confessor, not a druid

Edited by Gummiel

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problem with that is if you have other people to heal you you could go ham on dps forever in theory, where right now you are physically limited by the the amount of essence you have

You can't be healed while essence burning.

 

The way it is now you can nuke forever if you have healing using 6 from death tray.

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Missing a big part of the druid support role by trying to dps instead of buff.   The 2 channel power got a boost and now is a very strong damage buff when in the healing tray.  Early in a fight use this on a fessor and contain essence so that you can hold it for 5-8 seconds while a fessor spams 1k fireballs and can get a 30k 4.  Always save a little essence for a full channeled 3 at a close by friendly (10K aoe heal) and some quick orbs.  Try not to heal without the 666 buff.

 

5

666

1 closest enemy

2 hold to channel a friendly fessor (BOOM) to 60-70% essence (fast)

 

Swap

5 (5)

222 at the most hurt enemy

1

reposition/blink

5 (5)

222

 

keep the shroud up always when you have essence,

channel damage buff to a fessor when you don't.

 

I like to use C immediately following a shroud stun and swap trays first so the aoe damage hits your attacker and it drops your essence, usually blink after C and kite for awhile tossing orbs at your hurt fellows.

 

The tray swap cooldown has been bugged and you can cast right away.

 

The 3 and 4 in the death tray are not very useful and need a rethink... that rooted channel should do a lot more initial damage.  Orbs are to very hard to effectively turn to bombs with the 4, I think it should have a 20% decreased healing debuff on enemies in the purple disco zone in addition to turning orbs if the bomb damage is dropped that same 20%.   That would make the 4 much more useful but not OP.

 

When the Legio C gets the nerf bat (as it should), druids will again be useful...  comps use 2 legios, even 3 atm because their Cs can come back to back...  like the mino stun needs a short no stun debuff (to prevent complete stunlock), the legio C needs a short no C debuff to prevent the firehose of chained Cs.

Edited by Frykka

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                                                        Sugoi - Senpai

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How about the ability to use either bar with no restrictions other than effectiveness?  Maybe I want to harvest on my Damage bar or there is enough healing and I just want to do some damage instead of stand around.  It's way too restrictive as is.  Essence should make you more effective, not be a prereq.


"If your not failing sometimes, you aren't growing.  Without growth, there can never be greatness."

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How about the ability to use either bar with no restrictions other than effectiveness?  Maybe I want to harvest on my Damage bar or there is enough healing and I just want to do some damage instead of stand around.  It's way too restrictive as is.  Essence should make you more effective, not be a prereq.

 

sounds more like you want to run as dps pappy...   druid is supposed to be harder to play, harder to manage than other single tray archetypes.   She can do damage but buffing and support healing is her gig, and she is highly effective at it if played right and essence is properly managed.  You don't get to just spam away heals or lightening and your stun is defensive, someone has to try to hit you to be stunned but that is when you can turn on them, escape, or heal up.

Edited by Frykka

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                                                        Sugoi - Senpai

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In terms of essence issues, what if they just kept it as is except removed essence as a resource for the Death tray. So healing builds essence and damage reduces it, but you could use damage any time you needed regardless of if you had any essence. That would prevent people from needing to spam heals just to be able to defend themselves, but it would still ensure healing is limited as originally intended. It wouldn't make people a damage bot since their primary focus is still support, it would just free them up a bit to use skills as needed. Besides any Druids who try to be damage bots are going to get flack from their friends for not supporting, so peer pressure is enough of a balancing factor IMO.

Edited by Leiloni

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The real issue is the ability to please everyone. 

First off Druid is a support, DPS is never going to be high.

Second, tray swap definetly doesn't need a global CD.  Bad enough we have to spend time either wasted heals or cc etc, doing no dmg while bobbing and weaving trying to build essence to fight (solo play of course).  Then wait another few seconds for tray swap.

Third...You're support, not suppose to be running around solo trying to rule the world.

 

The issue is as in every game with a Healer/DPS is there is never a balance.  Will never do as much healing as another healer, never do as much dps as a dpser.  So everyone wigs out and screams balance.  I don't do as much healing as the "main healer"  I don't do as much dmg as the dps class.  waaaggghhhh.  And as much as I love this mechanic, it does need some tweaking and I'm sure the devs know that.  What I don't like is there are no other options for me as a healer other than a lame looking centaur or this poor excuse for a healer who in a true time of need will probably not be able to heal her/his tank (party members).  I don't like the firehouse healer either, but at the same time I don't like doing damage.  Give my essence a decay timer as well.  Or give me a global CD where I lose essence for health like the death spell has one to gain.  But the fact that I have to switch and do damage now puts me in the fight and no longer a healer/support.  I'm a dpser who isn't good at dps.

 

KK


Killerkat

support expert

www.infernalgamers.com

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In terms of essence issues, what if they just kept it as is except removed essence as a resource for the Death tray. So healing builds essence and damage reduces it, but you could use damage any time you needed regardless of if you had any essence. That would prevent people from needing to spam heals just to be able to defend themselves, but it would still ensure healing is limited as originally intended. It wouldn't make people a damage bot since their primary focus is still support, it would just free them up a bit to use skills as needed. Besides any Druids who try to be damage bots are going to get flack from their friends for not supporting, so peer pressure is enough of a balancing factor IMO.

This is exactly what I am talking about.  Lets just say your enemy is fleeing and nobody needs heals, you should be able to contribute without having to mindless spam LIFE skills to gain essence to do damage.

 

....but I did see this type of example in the promotion tree Witch.  Gain essence in and out of combat?

Edited by pappy

"If your not failing sometimes, you aren't growing.  Without growth, there can never be greatness."

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Second, tray swap definetly doesn't need a global CD.  Bad enough we have to spend time either wasted heals or cc etc, doing no dmg while bobbing and weaving trying to build essence to fight (solo play of course).  Then wait another few seconds for tray swap.

 

This alone would make Druid feel way, way better.

 

I do disagree that because Druid is listed as support that in any way implies they should never be able to do high DPS. There's an entire advanced tree dedicated to DPS ...

 

I'd like to see far more robust character differentiation within ATs. 

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This alone would make Druid feel way, way better.

 

I do disagree that because Druid is listed as support that in any way implies they should never be able to do high DPS. There's an entire advanced tree dedicated to DPS ...

 

I'd like to see far more robust character differentiation within ATs. 

This is exactly why the roles of DPS, Tank, Support, Specialist, needs to be completely removed. They cause confusion when the abilities dont fit their intended 'role', or when a archetype does something better or worse compared to another archetype labeled as something else.

 

Also it will free up the promotion classes requiring to keep up with the parent label. 


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This is exactly why the roles of DPS, Tank, Support, Specialist, needs to be completely removed. They cause confusion when the abilities dont fit their intended 'role', or when a archetype does something better or worse compared to another archetype labeled as something else.

 

Also it will free up the promotion classes requiring to keep up with the parent label. 

mmhm. Just list the archetypes, and have little side TL;DR sections describing the class, and tabs to click on showing the promotions with their role symbols beside the promotion title, and sections which also give tl;dr's and show skills.

 

but this is getting off topic :/

 

Also, it's a support class, not a healer class. Just because there's a dps tray and a healing tray doesn't mean the druid will never be as good a healer/dps as main spec dps, or "true" healers, esp. since there is no true healer in this game. It just changes how healing is going to be balanced for the druid since her window for healing is smaller than a leg.'s who doesn't have to deal with tray swap and essence, only CD.

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mmhm. Just list the archetypes, and have little side TL;DR sections describing the class, and tabs to click on showing the promotions with their role symbols beside the promotion title, and sections which also give tl;dr's and show skills.

 

but this is getting off topic :/

 

Also, it's a support class, not a healer class. Just because there's a dps tray and a healing tray doesn't mean the druid will never be as good a healer/dps as main spec dps, or "true" healers, esp. since there is no true healer in this game. It just changes how healing is going to be balanced for the druid since her window for healing is smaller than a leg.'s who doesn't have to deal with tray swap and essence, only CD.

 

IMO if Druid is supposed to have limited healing then it should be more bursty and as I saw a few suggest in a Lego thread, the Lego should have smaller, constant HoT style healing. They would complement each other well while also having niches that work with the class's skills and design ideas.

 

But some of the skills IMO seem like they could use some changes. The orbs for example I like the idea of being able to set them up TERA Mystic style, but the casting animations are too long and putting them in a chain almost makes that worse. It's painful to even watch you guys stand there forever not moving with these long flowing arms popping out orbs while everyone else is doing things. Those need to have a faster near instant cast animation and I really don't know what to do about the chain bit but it's not my favorite idea. 

 

But ideally if you had the time and low enough essence, you could quickly bop around the battle - key word here being quickly - and setup your orbs, which if done correctly could mean even more burst when you actually needed it in conjunction with the other skills. If it wasn't immediately necessary to heal, they could hop over to the damage bar, if it required no essence to dps, and you could aid your teammates in damage until they needed your limited burst heals. And mix that with a new and improved tray swap and things are really sounding a lot better.

 

Edit: Random combo idea. Would it be terrible for all combo skills to stay on your bar for a set amount of time before disappearing? So let's say you hit skill 1 in a combo chain and aren't ready yet to follow up with 2 and 3. Maybe combo skill 2 (or whatever options you have to branch from there) sit there for a few seconds on your bar, letting you move around before deciding to follow up? That would give people more freedom in how and when to use combos and more freedom of movement. Ideally I'm more a fan of having a longer skill bar, taking everything out of combos and giving things their own keybinds, and doing it that way. That tends to work better even in action combat games. But since that's not happening that's my next best idea. So for example you don't have to stand there in one spot spamming orb combos, you can spam one orb, run around, then follow up with the rest?

Edited by Leiloni

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mmhm. Just list the archetypes, and have little side TL;DR sections describing the class, and tabs to click on showing the promotions with their role symbols beside the promotion title, and sections which also give tl;dr's and show skills.

 

but this is getting off topic :/

 

Also, it's a support class, not a healer class. Just because there's a dps tray and a healing tray doesn't mean the druid will never be as good a healer/dps as main spec dps, or "true" healers, esp. since there is no true healer in this game. It just changes how healing is going to be balanced for the druid since her window for healing is smaller than a leg.'s who doesn't have to deal with tray swap and essence, only CD.

This is true, its easy to assume 'support' means heals, since both listed as support has heals,  but realistically, in other games, support classes give buffs to the team or gives debuffs to the enemy, removes crowd control or provides crowd control. 

 

Of course, thats other games. :)

Edited by Vectious

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This is true, its easy to assume 'support' means heals, since both listed as support has heals,  but realistically, in other games, support classes give buffs to the team or gives debuffs to the enemy, removes crowd control or provides crowd control. 

 

Of course, thats other games. :)

 

And in some games they do all of the above along with some healing. Regardless these are the only two classes that have healing so they'll need to provide enough for combat to be fun. If we've learned anything from other games it's when you don't have classes dedicated to healing, you just get lots of self healing and self defense and/or lots of potion spam. So it's good that they included healing because IMO it provides for better overall gameplay and teamwork.

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We have tried some tactics with druids and healing.

 

They are effective but require alot of organization, this compared to the almost brain-less healing a horse can do makes the druid a second rate support. The disadvantage a horse has is that compared to a druid, its pretty easy to be killed. While druid's survivability is second to none(okay maybe a mino).

 

The tray swap is a issue, in a game that has combat built around quick actions and responses the druid feels sluggish and clunky.

 

I think it would really benefit from a basic mechanic change.

 

Remove the essence cost requirement from damage abilities.

 

The essence increases damage but decreases healing. 

 

Make the baseline of their heals stronger but the more healing they use, the more essence they gain weakening their healing, then they can switch and do alot of enhanced damage with the essence damage buff.

 

I would even go as far as remove the tray all together and utilize the combo system fully so each power can branch off to either healing/buff or damage/debuff.

Edited by Vectious

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i disagree with you all.

 

removing the yin and yang of the essence would gut the class.

 

the reason the legio is a problem is because it is braindead easy to do (and the values are far too overtuned)

 

the druid on the other hand offers a far more engaging and flexible style - with natural rythmn built into the kit.

 

also the player has more than ample control over their essence via the Contain and Empower powers (along with Sacrifice and self healing and essence scram) and having to elegantly move between life and death to get the most out of all of the druid's tools.

 

the legio is far more effective currently (with lazy mode and stacking) but I will literally not play him over the druid at the moment as the druid is a hundred times more fun and skillful to play.

 


 

tl;dr the problem is with the legio, not the druid.

Edited by Tinnis

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