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keiotyk

Druid game play is tedious

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The druid in no way has a natural rhythm. Forced healing on no one or nothing just to get 2 or 3 dps spells off makes no sense, running around spamming orbs is pointless, fights are alot more dynamic then to go an run over some orbs for heals, the problem only gets worse if you are solo.

Edited by krevra

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The druid in no way has a natural rhythm. Forced healing on no one or nothing just to get 2 or 3 dps spells off makes no sense, running around spamming orbs is pointless, fights are alot more dynamic then to go an run over some orbs for heals, the problem only gets worse if you are solo.

This is the place where I disagree with my friend Tinnis, which is rare.

 

I'm with Kevra. Forced heals to nobody in order to be able to damage someone only makes less sense than forced nuking of nobody to be able to heal someone.

 

Either way you're running around spamming perfectly good powers on nothing a good portion of the time.

Edited by coolwaters

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if your using her correctly, and weaving all the potent utility powers on both trays alongside damage/healing, you should not be either running empty or reaching essence burn at all (or never for a signficant length of time)

 

there are many options for you that are not "spamming heals onto no one" or doing "orbs for 30 seconds" and you also have complete control between engagements as to what level you start at

 

and with teamwork you can nuke for 100% of the time (or do it by yourself *slightly* slower)

Edited by Tinnis

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if your using her correctly, and weaving all the potent utility powers on both trays alongside damage/healing, 

I think this would be far closer to a fair description if the tray swap were instant. Having to wait for the GCD every single time you want to swap trays and then again when you swap back (etc. forever) feels awkward and about as far from bobbing and "weaving" as building a brick fence.

Edited by coolwaters

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This is true, its easy to assume 'support' means heals, since both listed as support has heals,  but realistically, in other games, support classes give buffs to the team or gives debuffs to the enemy, removes crowd control or provides crowd control. 

 

Of course, thats other games. :)

 

This...   I see Druid as somewhat a SB Fury and should have more debuffs...   like I mentioned if the disco circle was a 20% healing debuff for enemies within it the 4 would be useful even if there were no orbs left because your teammates gobbled them and perhaps the extremely lame LMB could be a risky touch range electrical damage debuff thus causing damage growth the longer you can stay close and hold the LMB...  when the target gets too far unleash the 222.  The rick/reward would be having to get in close and stay close... these are support type powers other than healing.


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                                                        Sugoi - Senpai

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i disagree with you all.

 

removing the yin and yang of the essence would gut the class.

 

the reason the legio is a problem is because it is braindead easy to do (and the values are far too overtuned)

 

the druid on the other hand offers a far more engaging and flexible style - with natural rythmn built into the kit.

 

also the player has more than ample control over their essence via the Contain and Empower powers (along with Sacrifice and self healing and essence scram) and having to elegantly move between life and death to get the most out of all of the druid's tools.

 

the legio is far more effective currently (with lazy mode and stacking) but I will literally not play him over the druid at the moment as the druid is a hundred times more fun and skillful to play.

 


 

tl;dr the problem is with the legio, not the druid.

Warhammer Online had a similar system to Yin/Yang and they did it quite well.  Using heals charged up your damage and using damage charged up your healing.  Watch a video and you'll see, it was a good system that was balanced.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69pvebEbW8Q


"If your not failing sometimes, you aren't growing.  Without growth, there can never be greatness."

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This is the place where I disagree with my friend Tinnis, which is rare.

 

I'm with Kevra. Forced heals to nobody in order to be able to damage someone only makes less sense than forced nuking of nobody to be able to heal someone.

 

Either way you're running around spamming perfectly good powers on nothing a good portion of the time.

Why are you wasting healing when your #2 is a 40% damage buff and on a fessor right now that gives her a 1100 each fireball spam and a 30k+ #4...   no sense tossing orbs when nobody is hurt and your Legio has it under control...   I will say again and again I do think we need more use for our #4 beyond turning the orbs, I think it should make everybody in it stop and dance for 8 secs while it plays disco...   the #3 should be a stronger single hit than the #2 for all the damn wind up...

Edited by Frykka

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I agree with the essence change, I've never really liked it. Just like I never liked the need to generate energy to use ranger melee moves

 

that would also gut the core mechanics of the ranger too.....

 

Why are you wasting healing when your #2 is a 40% damage buff

 

exactly...and its +75% damage buff [with another +5% available from Nature's bond too]

Edited by Tinnis

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that would also gut the core mechanics of the ranger too.....

 

 

exactly...and its +75% damage buff [with another +5% available from Nature's bond too]

 

Not necessarily. I find those mechanics to be extremely restrictive. Essence can still work without forcing you one way or another.

 

The legionnaire can heal a lot and ALL the time. The druid heals in small spurts and only some of the time.

 

Let the druid heal all the time, but at a diminished capacity above a certain essence threshold and I think the druid would be a better support.

 

Let the ranger melee all the time but let energy augment her attacks in melee and ranged in some other way.

 

Right now with these two classes you're forced into situations by the game that you don't necessarily want or need to be in. All in the name of trying to make certain archetype gameplay interesting.

Edited by helix

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Not necessarily. I find those mechanics to be extremely restrictive. 

 

Right now with these two classes you're forced into situations by the game that you don't necessarily want or need to be in. All in the name of trying to make certain archetype gameplay interesting.

 

Well said. Limiting gameplay freedom isn't the way to make fun classes and not the best way to make them balanced. Design the classes in such a way as to allow more freedom of skill usage. Find balance in other ways.

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Not necessarily. I find those mechanics to be extremely restrictive. Essence can still work without forcing you one way or another.

 

The legionnaire can heal a lot and ALL the time. The druid heals in small spurts and only some of the time.

 

Let the druid heal all the time, but at a diminished capacity above a certain essence threshold and I think the druid would be a better support.

 

Let the ranger melee all the time but let energy augment her attacks in melee and ranged in some other way.

 

Right now with these two classes you're forced into situations by the game that you don't necessarily want or need to be in. All in the name of trying to make certain archetype gameplay interesting.

NO!   Pure healers are a waste...  like the trays or play another AT.  They have this right... 

 

Druid and ranger are supposed to be the more difficult to master multi-tray ATs...  If you cannot mind your essence you are a BAD Druid player. It actually takes skill other than mashing 2-3 keys...  hold 25-40% essence always when not fighting so you can start in either tray depending on needs.  The main thing is learn to play your druid properly or go to the easier Legio support.

Edited by Frykka

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The druid in no way has a natural rhythm. Forced healing on no one or nothing just to get 2 or 3 dps spells off makes no sense, running around spamming orbs is pointless, fights are alot more dynamic then to go an run over some orbs for heals, the problem only gets worse if you are solo.

If this is the case you are dancing to the wrong tune...    It can be managed and you can shine at it if you stick with it and get a feel for your timing in each tray...   then it flows well.  It IS supposed to be the harder support class to play and takes actual time to master.  I am really just starting to feel the essence in my soul while drooding the alpha and have a long way to go before I can claim any mastery of druidic potency.  Tinnis and I are right about these multi-tray classes, they are not for everyone, they take patience and awareness that other AT do not and that is why we play them.  We do not want another FotM crapclass made by easymode whining.   Get out there and learn to drood...  until you do I will stare you down with these dead girl eyes...

Edited by Frykka

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Forced skills and rotations isnt a dance its just tedious mechanics. I have played alot of games with different classes have alot more complicated trays then the simplified druid. Thar is nothing hard about the druid, all its skills are pretty basic and simple to understand, its the forced skills that is bad, its called wasting cool downs just so you can play the druid a certain way. Some of you guys arguments is that multitray is so complicated and really its not. Pretty sure most of us have played games with more then 10 skills, to include even GW2 which has alot more trays then this game ever will. Its the tedious nature of having to do certain things every single time just to be able to use said tray properly it is restrictive gameplay.

Edited by krevra

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Forced skills and rotations isnt a dance its just tedious mechanics. I have played alot of games with different classes have alot more complicated trays then the simplified druid. Thar is nothing hard about the druid, all its skills are pretty basic and simple to understand, its the forced skills that is bad, its called wasting cool downs just so you can play the druid a certain way. Some of you guys arguments is that multitray is so complicated and really its not. Pretty sure most of us have played games with more then 10 skills, to include even GW2 which has alot more trays then this game ever will. Its the tedious nature of having to do certain things every single time just to be able to use said tray properly it is restrictive gameplay

Tedious is YOUR personal opinion, play a different AT, this one is playing as designed.


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NO!   Pure healers are a waste...  like the trays or play another AT.  They have this right... 

 

Druid and ranger are supposed to be the more difficult to master multi-tray ATs...  If you cannot mind your essence you are a BAD Druid player. It actually takes skill other than mashing 2-3 keys...  hold 25-40% essence always when not fighting so you can start in either tray depending on needs.  The main thing is learn to play your druid properly or go to the easier Legio support.

 

What's a waste? Right now the druid does two things mediocre.

 

My problem isn't even with the trays (although I think some of the abilities do suck - I'm looking at you gaia's fail) or essence in general. Managing essence isn't even hard, it just dumbs down the druid since the game is essentially choosing what you can and can't do. You've also got 20s+ cool downs on your most potent heals. Why limit how much the druid can heal / support with essence and tack on cool downs as well? Might as well just have essence be the sole limiting mechanic.

 

As a solo support the druid stinks.

Edited by helix

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Clearly there is alot of others who have concern over how the class plays, Id rather have it be a bit more engaging then it currently is. I have to agree with what Helix has stated above, it has nothing to do with tray system or essence. And druid support alone is very bad even more so compared to the horse.

Edited by krevra

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Skill would be giving the Druid more choices in gameplay and more complicated gameplay overall (although I do think in action combat games, skill in execution is important and should be emphasized in development, but that's off topic). Better players will make the right choices. Artificially limiting power via cooldowns and essence is just bad design. If you wanna flaunt your Druid epeen you should ask for a more well designed class.

Edited by Leiloni

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The essence system is perfectly fine as it is. Druid is meant for group play, not solo. If you're healing no one just to build essence to nuke people, you're most likely not making the best of the situation. If you're nuking the air just to lower essence to be able to heal someone you're also probably not making the best of the situation. The core mechanic of essence management is fine as it is. 

 

The problem the druid has atm is that after people cried and whined for months about him being too OP he has been nerfed to the ground. And now the legio can output more dps than the druid can and he can also heal much better than the druid can. So druid feels like a waste of space in a team. On top of that aurora emitter which was one of the few unique utilities the druid had also has been nerfed to pratically useless. Druid doesn't need a redesign, it just needs fine tuning and adjustment to make it a support class that is as appealing as the legionnaire is. 


 

 

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Warhammer Online had a similar system to Yin/Yang and they did it quite well.  Using heals charged up your damage and using damage charged up your healing.  Watch a video and you'll see, it was a good system that was balanced.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69pvebEbW8Q

What happend to Warhammer Online? Oh yeah...

 

But seriously, the druid's essence needs a hard look. Essence shouldn't be a resource to allow you to use the abilities, it needs to enhance them, either straight damage increase or at essence tiers unlocks additional effects.

 

And on the other side increased essence should decrease healing or lock out additional ability effects.

 

There needs to be tactical reason to try and maintain a certain essence level. Either the level is high or low depending on your goal.

 

Just to charge it up and then drain it out just doesn't feel engaging, feels like a chore. And half your abilities being useless if full or if empty doesn't feel very fun either.

 

 

The essence system is perfectly fine as it is. Druid is meant for group play, not solo. If you're healing no one just to build essence to nuke people, you're most likely not making the best of the situation. If you're nuking the air just to lower essence to be able to heal someone you're also probably not making the best of the situation. The core mechanic of essence management is fine as it is. 

 

The problem the druid has atm is that after people cried and whined for months about him being too OP he has been nerfed to the ground. And now the legio can output more dps than the druid can and he can also heal much better than the druid can. So druid feels like a waste of space in a team. On top of that aurora emitter which was one of the few unique utilities the druid had also has been nerfed to pratically useless. Druid doesn't need a redesign, it just needs fine tuning and adjustment to make it a support class that is as appealing as the legionnaire is. 

 
Although i agree with you that people are not making the best of the situation, to a point. The problem is the situation can change at a split second and the druid doesn't have a mechanics that can reflect that quick response. If your team suddenly needs heals and you are full essence you are completely useless to the team. Even if you had zero essence you would have to already have balls laid down or be close to them to heal them.
 
I understand that resource management is part of the game with the druid but its too much of a liability compared to other classes. Even if the horse's healing wasent so good (recently got a huge nerf, they lost alot of support power) the horse would still be better because they are consistent and can provide that quick response.
 
Thats the issue, the druid lacks that quick team utility.
Edited by Vectious

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