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dustydrool187

Big World Step-BACK

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While it is important to remember that the game is in alpha, and that the game at launch will certainly be better than it is now, feedback is important, especially criticism. When people don't like a feature in the game, or a bug is found, ACE needs to be alerted as quick as possible. This allows them to make changes according to what the players like and dislike. This is a test, yes, but testing REQUIRES feedback, especially negative feedback. Just keep it constructive.   

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Exactly. Dismissing every comment or feedback that its just a test is pretty silly. The reason we are testing is because they NEED OUR FEED BACK.

 

They put something in game to test, people test it, if the feedback is negative then they know, if the feedback is positive, then they know. But to say the people giving feedback are wrong for negative feedback is really bad.

 

Disagree with their feedback, dont just dismiss it that its not important. 

 

And if anything, new peoples feedback is just as, if not more important then people who have been around testing for a long time.

 

Its a fresh set of eyes that view things un-jaded. 

 

Now they may have some misconceptions for sure, but dont dismiss them.

I never said that providing feedback was wrong. I said that enabling the testers to gather data and then providing useful feedback was important. I also said that actively hampering people who were trying to test things was bad for the community.

 

I was saying that ganking people and full-looting them while they test stuff is bad for testing. What gives you the idea that I am either dismissing or disagreeing with someone's feedback based on that?

 

Edit: whoops. forgot. also, yes, I will call it a courtesy, BECAUSE IT IS A COURTESY.

 

They didn't NEED thousands of testers. One or two dozen unpracticed but interested testers would have been plenty. And if you think they couldn't have gotten those, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

..I think I attached this edit to the wrong post. What is wrong with me today?

Edited by goose

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle#Pre-alpha <--this is where we are. If your complaint is that the game don't not works good, come back later.

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Tyrant told us so.

Yeah, that was my bad. I was operating on (extremely) old data pulled from my brain. Immediately after posting that, I said "hang on a minute, dumbass," then went back and re-read the official posts with numbers in them. Then I edited my post to reflect reality, because I am perfectly happy to correct myself or be corrected when I am wrong.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle#Pre-alpha <--this is where we are. If your complaint is that the game don't not works good, come back later.

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While it is important to remember that the game is in alpha, and that the game at launch will certainly be better than it is now, feedback is important, especially criticism. When people don't like a feature in the game, or a bug is found, ACE needs to be alerted as quick as possible. This allows them to make changes according to what the players like and dislike. This is a test, yes, but testing REQUIRES feedback, especially negative feedback. Just keep it constructive.   

 

There is probably some emotional bleed over from another thread today that appeared to be strictly inflammatory.  A couple of pages in a thread with the same broad topic, and suddenly you can find yourself taking a tone from one thread of mindless and derogatory complaints, and applying it to every other thread that is a bit related.

 

Thread title is also a factor.  Using all CAPS tends to set people off, and the title of this thread emotionally implies that the whole project took a step backwards, when several new and untested or balanced mechanics were added (E.G. stack sizes), as well as a couple of quality of life additions (resource identifications).

 

Itldr; If you want an emotional and reactionary discussion, using a topic title that is emotional and provocative is a great way to get one.

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There is probably some emotional bleed over from another thread today that appeared to be strictly inflammatory.  A couple of pages in a thread with the same broad topic, and suddenly you can find yourself taking a tone from one thread of mindless and derogatory complaints, and applying it to every other thread that is a bit related.

 

Thread title is also a factor.  Using all CAPS tends to set people off, and the title of this thread emotionally implies that the whole project took a step backwards, when several new and untested or balanced mechanics were added (E.G. stack sizes), as well as a couple of quality of life additions (resource identifications).

 

Itldr; If you want an emotional and reactionary discussion, using a topic title that is emotional and provocative is a great way to get one.

For me at least, this is absolutely what is happening. I had to go back to the first page like 3 times to try and figure out what people were upset at me about, because there's some missing context.

 

I get that I may seem to be dismissing perfectly valid feedback, but I don't even disagree with it - I was just literally not talking about it at all. But after reading the two pages of conversation that followed the OP, and after conversations on other threads that happened before I posted anything in this one, I was - I feel, justifiably - upset with the general tone being taken by several people. Not even in this thread, just..several people.

 

If I seem salty, it's because I'm kinda salty. But it's not because I want people to stop complaining about things they don't like. If they do that, we'll get a finished product that we don't like. Not sure why people think THAT'S what I want. o.o


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle#Pre-alpha <--this is where we are. If your complaint is that the game don't not works good, come back later.

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Significantly more than 10 people have been logging in to test their game. Concurrently. On each of their servers.

 

Seems fine.

 

Edit: You know, in point of fact, this statement kind of irritates me. For the majority of pre-alpha testing, you don't actually NEED a large body of testers. A usual team of pre-alpha game testers is pretty frickin' small. Like, half a dozen people.

 

They have opened their pre-alpha gameplay up to us as a courtesy. They didn't need to do it. They could just have asked the community who wanted in and only accepted 5 people with actual game-testing credentials if they wanted to. Hell, they may have done exactly that - you don't know. There may be a private server where a small team of professional game testers work concurrently with the open servers.

 

Sure, we also serve as an extra body of test data, but the assumption that our data is the only - or even the most important - data is both baseless and arrogant.

 

That said, even if we are 99% of the testers, it sure looks like they're getting most of their data. Even if it feels to me like half my efforts are wasted, it isn't like they've given me a specific directive to test. If they had, I'd do it, but since they didn't, I feel comfortable assuming that they've got their end handled.

 

 

Here you go chief, go ham with the testing feedback!

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15JierHSpyruZfABVEstLt88kKhsTwxTTPF9XtRGL_34/edit#gid=0

 

As for directives, Thomas wants us to come up with ideas for the skill trees.

Edited by cyjax

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Tyrant told us so.

 

However. Much more interesting:

 

 

It's always funny to see single persons with huge post counts like "10" (and by this fact proving their tremendous knowledge about and dedication to crowfall) referring to themselves as the general population. Especially if the play the old "no, no, it's already a game and no test and this game just isn't good enough to be a game" game.

 

No, that was unfair. I know it and i regret it. Every single voice is important. But nevertheless i had to write it. Because those postings just sound like some people have been paid to post such things. Maybe it's just to make yourself a name within the community for future purposes. That would make sense and would be abslutely ok. In both ways i just couldn't take any of these postings serious anymore (if i ever did). But then again, it's a game. Or it will be one day. And the act of playing is opposite to the act of being serious. So, regarding this, maybe you are just right doing it your way. :) Like Confucius said: Who cales, but nice talking to you.

 

Sorry didn't realize your high post count of Fanboy garble merited your opinion more valuable than mine.


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https://twitch.TV/Badatron  

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Sorry didn't realize your high post count of Fanboy garble merited your opinion more valuable than mine.

 

...well now you know. Don't let it happen again.

 

On a more serious note: The fact that Wor is commenting on this when he doesn't post often could be seen as a sign of how much he cares about this. He took the time to come to the forums to post only because he cares about what he saw this release. You going to hate on him for that?

Edited by mastakane

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Thank you masochists for actually attempting to test despite the state of the build.

 

I login and click on some passives once or twice a week. I'm doing my part!

Edited by APE

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Here you go chief, go ham with the testing feedback!

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15JierHSpyruZfABVEstLt88kKhsTwxTTPF9XtRGL_34/edit#gid=0

 

As for directives, Thomas wants us to come up with ideas for the skill trees.

You seem to have misunderstood my meaning, which is fair, since I don't think it was very clearly expressed.

 

My point was that Wor seemed to be complaining because the pre-alpha test environment wasn't fun, and was claiming that because it wasn't fun, only 10 people were on.

 

My counterpoint to this was that 10 was about as many people as were *needed* to do most pre-alpha testing, if you had dedicated game testers, which ACE could absolutely have opted to do. But instead, for various reasons, they decided to go with a totally different approach to their pre-alpha testing.

 

When I said that they hadn't given us any directives, I was attempting to highlight the difference between us volunteer pre-alpha testers and a paid video game tester, someone who is given a specific checklist and an amount of time and told to test one specific aspect. Instead of that, we have been given free reign within the test environment, and provided with a checklist of useful things for the developers, to fill out in whole or in part or not at all at our own discretion. We have also been warned that this is a test, not a game, and we might not enjoy it. We were told that by Thomas Blair in no uncertain terms, but people are still surprised and upset when they discover that it is true.

 

Edit: as a side note, I also pointed out that of the thousands of people they have invited to participate, more than 60% have actually logged on, and there have been enormous groups that have been actively gathering data. His assertion was not only based on a faulty premise, but demonstrably untrue as well. That was what upset me - the idea that because he wasn't having fun, something was wrong, and the idea that because he only saw a few other people online, they must not be logging on at all.

Edited by goose

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle#Pre-alpha <--this is where we are. If your complaint is that the game don't not works good, come back later.

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...well now you know. Don't let it happen again.

 

On a more serious note: The fact that Wor is commenting on this when he doesn't post often could be seen as a sign of how much he cares about this. He took the time to come to the forums to post only because he cares about what he saw this release. You going to hate on him for that?

I'm not going to hate on someone for speaking out when they think it's important. But if you're insulting someone by calling them a fanboy after talking smack about how un-fun and low-pop the pre-alpha test server you paid at least $100 to log on to is, I might call you out on your hypocrisy and/or the factual inaccuracies of your assertions.

 

But that's just me.

Edited by goose

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle#Pre-alpha <--this is where we are. If your complaint is that the game don't not works good, come back later.

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Seems like the game is full of painful and tedious features atm.

 

  • Food & food consumption.
  • Durability Loss.
  • Acquiring gear in comparison to losing it.
  • Cumbersome crafting UI.
  • Boring and tedious progression.
  • Loading in the game with literally no abilities to use. Hamfisting armor as an requirement to use your abilities.

On the good side it's pre-alpha or alpha (depending on how you look at it, and regardless of what they want to call it), so things can only get better.

Food is an interesting attribute that hasn't completely been realized yet.  Im curious to see how it plays out when season change and resources are reduced.  Im sure it will be tweaked to a comfortable level.  Having to eat during a fight seems ridiculous.

 

Durability loss is vital for a robust economy.  If players could keep there gear forever than the economy would suffer for it.  I much rather see max damage and max resist reduced than items completely destroyed.

 

Acquiring gear is going to be hard right now because so many systems arnt in yet, you may as well complain about the game not being finished.

 

Boring and tedious progression.  I think you should go play something else until open beta.

 

They stated you are born with nothing because players weren't testing the systems. 

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Food is an interesting attribute that hasn't completely been realized yet.  Im curious to see how it plays out when season change and resources are reduced.  Im sure it will be tweaked to a comfortable level.  Having to eat during a fight seems ridiculous.

 

Durability loss is vital for a robust economy.  If players could keep there gear forever than the economy would suffer for it.  I much rather see max damage and max resist reduced than items completely destroyed.

 

Acquiring gear is going to be hard right now because so many systems arnt in yet, you may as well complain about the game not being finished.

 

Boring and tedious progression.  I think you should go play something else until open beta.

 

They stated you are born with nothing because players weren't testing the systems. 

 

I'm concerned food will be annoying no matter how it's done. If it's too hard to make and carry food, then it takes up too much time that people would rather spend fighting. If it's too easy then you're just carrying a stack of food around to click on every so often. And are you forced to click too often to where it's a hindrance or not enough to where it's almost irrelevant? Meh. The idea is nice but I'm not sure how it can become interesting in practice. Or maybe it just needs to be a more complex system that has additional benefits aside from filling a meter once you've managed to make/find the food.

Edited by Leiloni

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I'm concerned food will be annoying no matter how it's done. If it's too hard to make and carry food, then it takes up too much time that people would rather spend fighting. If it's too easy then you're just carrying a stack of food around to click on every so often. And are you forced to click too often to where it's a hindrance or not enough to where it's almost irrelevant? Meh. The idea is nice but I'm not sure how it can become interesting in practice. Or maybe it just needs to be a more complex system that has additional benefits aside from filling a meter once you've managed to make/find the food.

I agree with this overall. It sort of feels like an extra layer of micromanagement in just for the sake of realism. I don't have especially strong feelings about it one way or the other, but at the same time I can see how it doesn't really add anything meaningful to the gameplay.

 

Edit: ...as it is currently implemented.

 

There's some good ideas for changes in here, I think.

 

Re-edit: I mean, we're all goddamn Frankenstein's monsters, right? There must be some wiggle room for just how essential food is. >_>

Edited by goose

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle#Pre-alpha <--this is where we are. If your complaint is that the game don't not works good, come back later.

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How isd 

 

I'm not going to hate on someone for speaking out when they think it's important. But if you're insulting someone by calling them a fanboy after talking smack about how un-fun and low-pop the pre-alpha test server you paid at least $100 to log on to is, I might call you out on your hypocrisy and/or the factual inaccuracies of your assertions.

 

But that's just me

 

You are the type of person that just likes to hear yourself talk. So because i paid 100 bucks for a game and said it was not fun in its last current test im a hypocrit lol. you are an idiot and no points will be rewarded to you have a good day.


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https://twitch.TV/Badatron  

https://www.GriefGaming.pro

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Sorry didn't realize your high post count of Fanboy garble merited your opinion more valuable than mine.

 

First, my post count isn't high. Even one year ago we had people with already four times more posts than i have today.

 

And no, post counts don't tell a lot about people. But combined with what they do and how they do it, this is one of the aspects that can be used to draw a basic picture. Those pictures are nearly never right and always highly subjectiv. But they can give a general idea.

 

What i did observe is that lately more and more apparently new accounts seem to appear, who's owners tend to criticize unconstructively and do this everywhere on the forum -- no matter where it belongs or where it makes sense. Now, the reason could just be general malevolence. I don't like this thought, so i just assume some level of missinformation or missed information or misunderstanding. Only, in this case i would wonder how such a person could claim to know what the general population is saying.

 

Every opinion is important. But sometimes the tone makes the music. If people don't like what they hear, they sometimes may not respond in an overly positive way. And how do we act in such cases? Do we just run away, do we just attack or do we try to come together to help this game prosper?

 


 

 

The fact that Wor is commenting on this when he doesn't post often could be seen as a sign of how much he cares about this. He took the time to come to the forums to post only because he cares about what he saw this release. You going to hate on him for that?

 

The responses to first posters are very important. In nearly all cases when i see posts from accounts with very low post counts, especially first-posters, i reply as friendly and explain as much and as target-oriented and helpful and construcive as i can. Just revise my posts to make your own picture.

 

And yes, sometimes people can be upset. That's not a bad thing in general. Beeing upset about current trends just show the passion of a person. Who really loves or believes in his picture of this game/company will have to be upset from time to time. And vice versa. Thats part of the deal. Because you really want something really bad. And if you don't get it, you will produce emotions to help you get it and you will tend to let them out somewhere. No problem in general.

 

The question is: what will we do in such cases?

 

Will we just blare out and be a victim of our own emotions? Or will we choose a constructive way and try to discuss details and hopefully find consense in the end? (Or - another possibiliy - are we just one of those who already use this forum to build the foundation for later ingame politics ... what by the way is ok, but then those words can't be taken serious in regard of any  development related discussion.)

 

I am not one of those people who just tend to hate people if they have a different opionion. I even welcome it and actively encourage people to do so. But i also don't like it, if people just express their displeasure without any constructive content, without the slightest impression of beeing willing to discuss and acting very unconstructive and aggressive if they get negative feedback.

 

In these cases i will state my opinion, and very clearly so. And if a negative opinion is appropriate, this should surely be true for all participants, shouldn't it?

 

 


 

One last thing. In my opinion this is one on of the probably fruitless discussions. All opinions have been given. There don't seem to be a fast solution. Usually those kind of threads get stuck or heat up, without any further result.

I would be willing to go on with the discussion to take my part in finding some kind of consense or mutual understanding. But i don't think that it will help the development or the community. So i am out of this topic. But feel free to contact be via private message if you are willing to go on.

Edited by Kraahk

2W1ZHpA.jpg

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I'm concerned food will be annoying no matter how it's done. If it's too hard to make and carry food, then it takes up too much time that people would rather spend fighting. If it's too easy then you're just carrying a stack of food around to click on every so often. And are you forced to click too often to where it's a hindrance or not enough to where it's almost irrelevant? Meh. The idea is nice but I'm not sure how it can become interesting in practice. Or maybe it just needs to be a more complex system that has additional benefits aside from filling a meter once you've managed to make/find the food.

This about sums up the issue with the current framework implementation on hunger.

 

Its not about making it easier or harder, its changing the dynamic of it so it adds to the game play.

 

 

And i think overall the point of the thread is that big world has moved in the wrong direction with either the timing of adding mechanics or the mechanics themselves. The server population last weekend perfectly reflects peoples response.

Edited by Vectious

CfWBSig.png

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A courtesy? LOl they're charging 100 bucks for pre alpha right now. Iv played the last month and I have not seen more than 20-30 people on at a time. And that's rather weak seeing they sent out over 9k invites. This last test with the tediousness of it I havnt seen more than 10-15 people

On at a time. They can have all the tiny hidden test groups they want but when the general population is saying the game isn't fun then it's probably not fun.

This isn't a game, it's a test.


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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