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goose

If vessels are inventory items...

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...what happens to your equipped gear when you put a vessel in your bank?

 

I was reading an old thread about the skill system and build customization and such, and it got me thinking. What if you've got this really sweet assassin vessel kitted out with poison disciplines and you've got a set of gear optimized to work with the setup you've got for that build - gear that might be useless to someone who kills you unless they happened to have built their assassin vessel the same way you built yours. But you want to switch over to your crafter now - time to build some houses, yo.

 

What happens, exactly? Will your crow just hop on out? Will your vessel be standing there like a statue? Can it be picked up and moved? Placed in the bank? If so, what happens to its inventory? Does it fall to the ground? Does it just stay there, unaffected?

 

This point seems crucial because of physics-breaking corpse recursion. Follow me. You have a body wearing a full outfit. In its inventory is a body wearing a full outfit. In its inventory is a body wearing a full outfit. And on and on and on.

 

So you take this body full of bodies full of bodies to the exporter at the end of your campaign. Do you crash the server?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle#Pre-alpha <--this is where we are. If your complaint is that the game don't not works good, come back later.

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Probably will consist of vessel+equipable inventory.  You put that in your meat locker/hanger/space station with limited slots, and you probably won't be able to switch vessels unless your near it and using that interface (no changing mechs on the battlefield).  And, fear not, even if the gear/vessel is useless to your looter, they will still take it as it renders you less capable.  Now, if they have limited inventory, they will probably grab a weapon or armor (especially with armor requirements) because, again, it makes you weaker. If they do take your vessel, they will get the vessel with all its equipped items (not the items in your inventory, unless they loot those separately).  At least, this is how I suspect it will be.

 

EDIT:  Your inventory may drop on the ground, if they loot your vessel, though this part is foggy.

 

The whole thing makes me shake my head, but whatever...

Edited by Regulus

The Artist Formerly Known as Regulus

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Probably will consist of vessel+equipable inventory.  You put that in your meat locker/hanger/space station with limited slots, and you probably won't be able to switch vessels unless your near it and using that interface (no changing mechs on the battlefield).  And, fear not, even if the gear/vessel is useless to your looter, they will still take it as it renders you less capable.  Now, if they have limited inventory, they will probably grab a weapon or armor (especially with armor requirements) because, again, it makes you weaker. If they do take your vessel, they will get the vessel with all its equipped items (not the items in your inventory, unless they loot those separately).  At least, this is how I suspect it will be.

 

EDIT:  Your inventory may drop on the ground, if they loot your vessel, though this part is foggy.

 

The whole thing makes me shake my head, but whatever...

XD The whole thing is a little foggy until they decide exactly how to approach it. But I feel like bodies should be a bit of a pain in the butt to steal. Like, they should be large and cumbersome. The choice to divest them of gear is an obvious one, but the choice to steal their entire body should be a more strategic one. And if their body was some kind of specialized vessel, like a class promotion, there might even reasonably be measures in place to prevent it from being inhabited by someone without the requisite qualifications.

 

This would both serve to make those rare bodies for specialized combatants more desirable, but also more difficult to take. And if carrying a body around applied some kind of encumbrance, making it easier for the guy you killed to hunt you down and take their body back? All the better. It would make the decision much more interesting.

 

But of course, in a CW where such a thing was possible, losing a fight to someone in the same specialization as you and having them say "oh wow! this body is way stronger than mine!" would still be a conceivable risk. And if you know you have a guildmate who could use it, it could easily be worth taking.

 

I love the depth of tactical decision-making this sort of thing enables. And I also love the idea of a meat locker being separate from a bank. XD


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle#Pre-alpha <--this is where we are. If your complaint is that the game don't not works good, come back later.

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So you take this body full of bodies full of bodies to the exporter at the end of your campaign.

This statement hurts my head because im thinking to much. Grab a vessel that has 4 vessels but that vessel has 3 and that 3 had 5. Oh dear God make it stop!!!

 

Anyways yea this is a thing that will be needed to be looked at for a bit to see how it works the best.

 

Best way i can think of it would be you have a Crow inventory and a Vessel Inventory. Crow inventory maybe cant hold certain items like weps/armor but knowledge/blueprints? idk. Another way you could potentially stop it would be by once the vessel is slain its dead. Unless someone completes a ritual or a calling to bring that vessel back to life and then you can equip it.

 

So Person 1 and Person 2 fight. Person 2 looses and dies. Person 1 loots the body and you can be allowed to inspect the the vessel. Either Person 2 "Crows or Flies' (idk) over and hops back in X mins. Person 1 may also decide that the vessel was not working out for their play style and says screw it i want another and leaves it behind. Person 2 may inspect the vessel and say oh thats better than what i got. Person rushes back to town/graveyard and does a ritual where they can summon the vessel back and use it for them self.

 

Idk im spit balling here trying to think of ideas because the first statement i made makes it sound stupid and someday someone is gonna hit the motherload.

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Yeah Goose, I suspect bodies will be, at the very least, large inventory items.  But, it is interesting to think about what types of grie... I mean tactics, may be employed by virtue of vessels.  For example, what happens if you loot my vessel?  Perhaps my non-equipped inventory falls on the ground as we've discussed.  Then, what happens if you chuck my vessel--either destroy it, or if that is not possible, toss it on the ground somewhere else?  Maybe off a cliff?  Maybe an entire meta will develop in which certain players' job is to grab bodies and run them to another position to drop them.  This sounds incredibly dumb to me, but that is just my opinion.  It's speculation, of course, but it will be interesting, or perhaps troubling, to see what path this takes.   


The Artist Formerly Known as Regulus

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They can make it so that you can't loot a vessel until after you have looted its inventory. Much like you can't skin a cat until after you loot it. "Press F to loot Vessel" only appears after inventory is cleared. It might even technically be Necromancy harvesting.

 

Then make vessel objects take up a lot of grid squares in inventory so you can't carry many of them.

Edited by Jah

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They can make it so that you can't loot a vessel until after you have looted its inventory. Much like you can't skin a cat until after you loot it. "Press F to loot Vessel" only appears after inventory is cleared. It might even technically be Necromancy harvesting.

 

Then make vessel objects take up a lot of grid squares in inventory so you can't carry many of them.

This is basically exactly what I'm hoping for. Losing your body should be a risk, but it should never be a SIGNIFICANT risk. Otherwise why would anyone ever risk making a high quality body to begin with?

it will be interesting, or perhaps troubling, to see what path this takes.   

I chuckled. XD


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle#Pre-alpha <--this is where we are. If your complaint is that the game don't not works good, come back later.

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You should have to train necromancy to a certain point to loot a vessel, that would be interesting i think, really adds value to necromancy as well.

That is an interesting idea. If you aren't a trained necromancer, you might only be able to take a limb. XD

 

Edit: I'm imagining a myrmidon trying to loot a duelist and just... "WHAT IS THIS TINY THING? HOW DO I?!?!" and like, accidentally crushing limbs and ripping off its head. Like what. lol

Edited by goose

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle#Pre-alpha <--this is where we are. If your complaint is that the game don't not works good, come back later.

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You should have to train necromancy to a certain point to loot a vessel, that would be interesting i think, really adds value to necromancy as well.

 

Maybe an entire meta will develop in which certain players' job is to grab bodies and run them to another position to drop them.  This sounds incredibly dumb to me,

EQ1 had a feature when necros could drag dead bodies around. Boom theres your meta.

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EQ1 had a feature when necros could drag dead bodies around. Boom theres your meta.

 

Necromancers raising the vessels and having them march off the field Weekend at Bernie's II style would be something that not even I could hate completely.  


The Artist Formerly Known as Regulus

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I think it could be a good idea to make the inventory account bound instead of character bound. So when you swap vessels you just swap bodies inventory remains untouched.

 

Just a thought ....


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...what happens to your equipped gear when you put a vessel in your bank?

[...]

But you want to switch over to your crafter now - time to build some houses, yo.

 

What happens, exactly? Will your crow just hop on out? Will your vessel be standing there like a statue? Can it be picked up and moved? Placed in the bank? If so, what happens to its inventory? Does it fall to the ground? Does it just stay there, unaffected? [...]

 

I don't know. But i will try to guess.

 

- When you put a vessel in your bank, it won't have equipped items. It's an item itself.

- You can always log in and out of campaigns.

- Logging out of a campaign works like logging out a character in any other game.

 

 

 


 

 

 

Now, the following ist a contribution to the discussion, not an answer. Because just like i said -- i don't know.

 

 

The vessel and the bank

 

I think there are some misunderstandings based on differences between the usual understandings and how crowfall will work.

A vessel is not a character, it is an item. We don't have characters, we have a specific number of campaign worlds we can join. We can bring items into the world and we can take items out of them - depending on the embargo rules.

 

I haven't heard anything about a bank in the CW's. The kickstarter perks spoke about "account bank". That suggests that the bank will exist on account level. The campaigns are not the account level. In campaign worlds we will have inventory and everything will have to be carried in an inventory. We can use the inventory of mobile pack animals and we can store items in immobile chests and working stations or we can give them to our thralls.

 

So, putting a vessel into your bank would only apply if you crafted or traded one - and those will just be items. Or if you want to put a specific vessel into a campaign, using the embargo system -> again just items. Or if a campaign did end -> embargo system. Or if you abandon a campaign -> embargo system.

 

Logging in and out

 

As far as we know up to now, we will be able to log in and out of campaigns at any time. But that doesn't mean that we exit these worlds. Our account is still bound to them. It's more like our physical manfestation would hide at a safe place there.

 

If we really want to exit a world we would have to abandon it. Abandoning a campaign before it's time is over will be penalized. (We don't have info about the details yet, but it could be something like we can't use this campaign world slots for some days if we do it, or we don't get any rewards, or can't take back the inventory and vessel ... you get the idea.)

 

So yes, in the eye of the beholder the vessel just vanishs from the campaign world. But it's still there. And you can't use it or it's inventory until you enter the campaign again or the campaign ends (then you might find your rewards and maybe your vessel in the embargo). In many respects the "campaign world place" equals what we usually would understand as "character". While the vessel is more some kind of an outfit, but one with stats and abilities.

 

 

Looting, harvesting, necromancy, change of bodies

 

I am completely guessing now, because there are no informations about this i would know of.

 

After what we have seen in the tests up to now, i would assume that archetype bodies will just work like animal bodies. You can loot them (only) if they are dead. And you can harvest them (only) if they have been looted. You will need the skill and tools and you will get loot table items (limbs, organs, whatever) depending on the type and quality of a body. Just like the difference between a small gold node in the EK's (a white quality minotaur vessel) or a big copper motherlode in the dregs (a blue quality knight vessel). I don't think that we will be able to loot "complete" vessels as an single item.

 

Further i don't expect us to keep our inventory if we die. It doesn't make a lot of sense. But it may depend on the worlds ruleset. I would expect that the vessel provides the inventory places. So as a crow we wouldn't have any inventory places at all - except a vessel slot. If we die we can hover back to a graveyard or to friends and posess a new vessel, or try to find our (or maybe even another one's?) dead vessel and "repair" and repossess it (including what items are left).

 

I could imagine that we would have some kind of basic setting, depending on our decisions while entering the world and the advanced possibility to equip specific vessels.

Let's say you enter a campaign world and choose a knight. Now you start with a basic knight vessel. If you die, you will revive at the graveyard, possessing a knew knight body. As long as you don't change something, this always will happen. So if you are not into the vessel system, you can just play your "character".

However, in my imagination there would be a vessel slot, we could use to put a specific vessel into. Say you have a knight and want to use your myrmidon vessel item. You just pull your myrmidon vessel item into the vessel slot. Now you have a myrmidon and a knight vessel item. Maybe the transition would take a while or could only be done in a tempel. Maybe you just can leave your knight body and will have to loot your myrmidon vessel item from it's inventory to put it on, to be able to loot the rest of the items your old body was carrying ... before harvesting it to get your parts back.

Or maybe we can't change the archetype within a campaign at all.

 

Edited by Kraahk

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I think we'll be able to put equipment on vessels so that we can set them up in advance and equip them quickly, but the vessel won't have an inventory, so we won't be able to put one vessel inside another. The inventory will be server based, the same way it is now. We'll have a separate inventory for each campaign we belong to and another for EKs. 

 

That's how I would do it anyway.

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-snip-

Or maybe we can't change the archetype within a campaign at all.

 

Most of what you make sense, except that very last line, I am pretty certain we can change AT in a campaign, I remember them saying something along the lines of that some AT's would be better during the early seasons (like legios that are fast, but would be harder to sustain with foods once the winter comes, where frostweavers on the other hand would be more effective during winter)

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I don't know. But i will try to guess.

 

- When you put a vessel in your bank, it won't have equipped items. It's an item itself.

- You can always log in and out of campaigns.

- Logging out of a campaign works like logging out a character in any other game.

 

 

 


 

 

 

Now, the following ist a contribution to the discussion, not an answer. Because just like i said -- i don't know.

 

 

The vessel and the bank

 

I think there are some misunderstandings based on differences between the usual understandings and how crowfall will work.

A vessel is not a character, it is an item. We don't have characters, we have a specific number of campaign worlds we can join. We can bring items into the world and we can take items out of them - depending on the embargo rules.

 

I haven't heard anything about a bank in the CW's. The kickstarter perks spoke about "account bank". That suggests that the bank will exist on account level. The campaigns are not the account level. In campaign worlds we will have inventory and everything will have to be carried in an inventory. We can use the inventory of mobile pack animals and we can store items in immobile chests and working stations or we can give them to our thralls.

 

So, putting a vessel into your bank would only apply if you crafted or traded one - and those will just be items. Or if you want to put a specific vessel into a campaign, using the embargo system -> again just items. Or if a campaign did end -> embargo system. Or if you abandon a campaign -> embargo system.

 

Logging in and out

 

As far as we know up to now, we will be able to log in and out of campaigns at any time. But that doesn't mean that we exit these worlds. Our account is still bound to them. It's more like our physical manfestation would hide at a safe place there.

 

If we really want to exit a world we would have to abandon it. Abandoning a campaign before it's time is over will be penalized. (We don't have info about the details yet, but it could be something like we can't use this campaign world slots for some days if we do it, or we don't get any rewards, or can't take back the inventory and vessel ... you get the idea.)

 

So yes, in the eye of the beholder the vessel just vanishs from the campaign world. But it's still there. And you can't use it or it's inventory until you enter the campaign again or the campaign ends (then you might find your rewards and maybe your vessel in the embargo). In many respects the "campaign world place" equals what we usually would understand as "character". While the vessel is more some kind of an outfit, but one with stats and abilities.

 

 

Looting, harvesting, necromancy, change of bodies

 

I am completely guessing now, because there are no informations about this i would know of.

 

After what we have seen in the tests up to now, i would assume that archetype bodies will just work like animal bodies. You can loot them (only) if they are dead. And you can harvest them (only) if they have been looted. You will need the skill and tools and you will get loot table items (limbs, organs, whatever) depending on the type and quality of a body. Just like the difference between a small gold node in the EK's (a white quality minotaur vessel) or a big copper motherlode in the dregs (a blue quality knight vessel). I don't think that we will be able to loot "complete" vessels as an single item.

 

Further i don't expect us to keep our inventory if we die. It doesn't make a lot of sense. But it may depend on the worlds ruleset. I would expect that the vessel provides the inventory places. So as a crow we wouldn't have any inventory places at all - except a vessel slot. If we die we can hover back to a graveyard or to friends and posess a new vessel, or try to find our (or maybe even another one's?) dead vessel and "repair" and repossess it (including what items are left).

 

I could imagine that we would have some kind of basic setting, depending on our decisions while entering the world and the advanced possibility to equip specific vessels.

Let's say you enter a campaign world and choose a knight. Now you start with a basic knight vessel. If you die, you will revive at the graveyard, possessing a knew knight body. As long as you don't change something, this always will happen. So if you are not into the vessel system, you can just play your "character".

However, in my imagination there would be a vessel slot, we could use to put a specific vessel into. Say you have a knight and want to use your myrmidon vessel item. You just pull your myrmidon vessel item into the vessel slot. Now you have a myrmidon and a knight vessel item. Maybe the transition would take a while or could only be done in a tempel. Maybe you just can leave your knight body and will have to loot your myrmidon vessel item from it's inventory to put it on, to be able to loot the rest of the items your old body was carrying ... before harvesting it to get your parts back.

Or maybe we can't change the archetype within a campaign at all.

 

Alright, so to clarify my earlier statement. I SAID bank, but what I actually meant was the embargo...NPC? Building? Whatever it is. I just couldn't remember the word for it at the time.

 

That specific detail mattered to me because the last idea I had heard for its implementation by the devs implied that it was a physical location in the campaign worlds that you had to carry all of your things to in order to export them to your Eternal Kingdom at the end of winter. That conversation came up specifically in regards to how it was a situation where it was absolutely going to be possible for bandits to ambush you and steal your loot *on your way to extract it after winning a campaign*.

 

Also, there had been a video where Thomas Blair was asked whether it would be viable for someone to bring multiple vessels to a siege so that they could quickly enter a replacement vessel after dying and save themselves the trip back from the graveyard, or the trip in crow form back to their deceased vessel. The video kind of got de-railed before he offered a specific answer to the question, and by the end it wasn't terribly clear where crows would respawn, but in the interest of not giving players access to invisible, untargetable scouts, it WAS made clear that crows would not be able to see or interact with the world in meaningful ways. However, you can see how this might not have given me a satisfactory answer - it doesn't answer a lot of questions, including the question of whether having a spare body behind your shield wall would be beneficial if you died in a melee.

 

So really, the question is whether vessels have inventories themselves, and if they do, what happens to their inventories when they are not occupied, and it seems like the most logical solution to this question is that vessels cannot be interacted with in any way beyond being inhabited by a crow until their inventories are emptied.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle#Pre-alpha <--this is where we are. If your complaint is that the game don't not works good, come back later.

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