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VIKINGNAIL

How would you feel about training resets?

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The majority of gamers these days are playing games with reset mechanics.  I doubt most players would get tired of it.  I actually think most would enjoy it more because it creates that fresh character building buzz each reset. 

 

Yes but they play and approach those games with a different mindset. They don't see LoL or Overwatch as a long term investment MMO. They see it as a quick bit of fun here and there. They can play a match and then go do something else in the midst of a busy life. Sure they may end up playing it a lot over the course of a few years, but that's incidental, not the plan they start the game with. They can leave and come back a month or a few months later and not feel any negative effects. People approach MMO's as a larger time investment both in the short term and in the long term, and as something they need to play with a guild instead of being able to hop in alone. Sure some aspects are similar, but people look at MOBA's and MMO's wildly differently and this effects how they play and how they enjoy them. I am not entirely sure you can bring MOBA gameplay into MMO's successfully without taking that into account. I'm afraid it would backfire because people expect and want something different from MMO's.

Edited by Leiloni

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Yes but they play and approach those games with a different mindset. They don't see LoL or Overwatch as a long term investment MMO. They see it as a quick bit of fun here and there. They can play a match and then go do something else in the midst of a busy life. Sure they may end up playing it a lot over the course of a few years, but that's incidental, not the plan they start the game with. They can leave and come back a month or a few months later and not feel any negative effects. People approach MMO's as a larger time investment both in the short term and in the long term, and as something they need to play with a guild instead of being able to hop in alone. Sure some aspects are similar, but people look at MOBA's and MMO's wildly differently and this effects how they play and how they enjoy them. I am not entirely sure you can bring MOBA gameplay into MMO's successfully without taking that into account. I'm afraid it would backfire because people expect and want something different from MMO's.

And what of survival games with harsh resets and people planning big bases and strategies and taking each other out just to do it all again when they lose all of their stuff or when servers wipe? 

 

What about people that play all of those games competitively and see them as long term investments? 

 

This current skill tree system is not some big MMO identity feature, it is not a huge part of the game that it hinges on, some would say it's one of the unattractive things in regards to the game. 

 

We see tons of games and genres blurring the line, we also see crowfall already blurring the lines with other reset mechanics.  Crowfall will already force you to approach the game with a different mindset than traditional mmos.

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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And what of survival games with harsh resets and people planning big bases and strategies and taking each other out just to do it all again when they lose all of their stuff or when servers wipe? 

 

What about people that play all of those games competitively and see them as long term investments? 

 

This current skill tree system is not some big MMO identity feature, it is not a huge part of the game that it hinges on, some would say it's one of the unattractive things in regards to the game. 

 

We see tons of games and genres blurring the line, we also see crowfall already blurring the lines with other reset mechanics.  Crowfall will already force you to approach the game with a different mindset than traditional mmos.

"I think one of the game systems is poorly-implemented. Better add periodic wipes instead of fixing the underlying problem."


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle#Pre-alpha <--this is where we are. If your complaint is that the game don't not works good, come back later.

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"I think one of the game systems is poorly-implemented. Better add periodic wipes instead of fixing the underlying problem."

Yes because changing the system to what I've suggested fixes all of the underlying problems with the poorly-implemented system.  You just happen to be weirdly panicky about such a concept instead of just calmly disagreeing and providing solid arguments. 

 

I don't think anyone can make a great argument that the current skill-tree system is somehow going to build tons of immersion or character bond for people. 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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I don't think anyone can make a great argument that the current skill-tree system is somehow going to build tons of immersion or character bond for people.

 

*raises hand*

Having roles that require investing ~1year will increase immersion.

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*raises hand*

Having roles that require investing ~1year will increase immersion.

This.

 

Yes because changing the system to what I've suggested fixes all of the underlying problems with the poorly-implemented system.  You just happen to be weirdly panicky about such a concept instead of just calmly disagreeing and providing solid arguments. 

 

I don't think anyone can make a great argument that the current skill-tree system is somehow going to build tons of immersion or character bond for people. 

Though for what it's worth, I haven't made any effort to argue that the current system will build immersion or let you bond with your character. Nor did you ask me to.

 

You asked for our thoughts on periodically wiping the skill tree. I gave you mine. I've since resorted to sarcastic sniping because you refuse to establish a dialogue. You don't respond to arguments - you just breeze right on past them as if I never spoke. It's like arguing with a television.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle#Pre-alpha <--this is where we are. If your complaint is that the game don't not works good, come back later.

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This.

 

Though for what it's worth, I haven't made any effort to argue that the current system will build immersion or let you bond with your character. Nor did you ask me to.

 

You asked for our thoughts on periodically wiping the skill tree. I gave you mine. I've since resorted to sarcastic sniping because you refuse to establish a dialogue. You don't respond to arguments - you just breeze right on past them as if I never spoke. It's like arguing with a television.

No, I don't breeze right past them, unless they don't have substance, I give serious responses to people who come well-prepared.  I generally don't take angsty remarks seriously cause people who resort to that type of stuff generally just don't have good arguments.


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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I could play with a reset to the general skill trees for new campaigns if the training were greatly accelerated, although I'd prefer that the archetype trees not reset.  This would allow players to change up roles for each new campaign while keeping access to their favorite archetypes.   It could also make longer campaigns more attractive than I think they would be otherwise.  I can see some advantages.

 

However, if my own past behavior is any gauge, I often use these types of resets as a time to transition from one game to another so I'm uncertain if such a design would truly be good for Crowfall.  I suspect that most players want their characters to advance with every campaign and would feel that a reset would always be step backwards.

 

What ever ACE decides to go with, I hope they keep it fairly simple and straight forward.  My feeling is that the skill trees should be more about character direction than intricacy.

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This thread is like a how-to guide on how to quickly get 4k+ posts. Step 1 - make thread on controversial but fairly useless argument to get lots of replies.Step 2 - disagree with as many people as you can as often as you can and make sure to add in a slight touch of condescension to encourage more angry replies that you can reply back to (remember, we need that post count!), Step 3. Drag it out as long as you can until folks wise up or move on to the next big thing (hint: Best to make the next big thing, YOUR next big thing).

Edited by Leiloni

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This thread is like a how-to guide on how to quickly get 4k+ posts. Step 1 - make thread on controversial but fairly useless argument to get lots of replies.Step 2 - disagree with as many people as you can as often as you can and make sure to add in a slight touch of condescension to encourage more angry replies that you can reply back to (remember, we need that post count!), Step 3. Drag it out as long as you can until folks wise up or move on to the next big thing (hint: Best to make the next big thing, YOUR next big thing).

Please keep things related to the thread, if you can't contribute anything meaningful then you should just move on.


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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*raises hand*

Having roles that require investing ~1year will increase immersion.

Surely you don't expect me to play a role I don't want to play for a year before I can play the role that I actually want to play?

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Surely you don't expect me to play a role I don't want to play for a year before I can play the role that I actually want to play?

It takes ~year to master that role (get every skill in that tree + the min requirements to get to that tree. You can get the basics to that skill long before that.

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I play mmos for the long game (character progression and meaningful decisions)

 

I play MOBAs when I want a short bit of fun and don't really give a custard

 

 

 

I play the two types of games very differently and would not be interested in a several month long MOBA match nor would I be interested in a MMO with no meaningful/lasting progression. I know about 60ish people looking forward to this game and if this is the route they take maybe 5 will give it a shot at launch...its just a terrible idea.

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I play mmos for the long game (character progression and meaningful decisions)

 

I play MOBAs when I want a short bit of fun and don't really give a custard

 

 

 

I play the two types of games very differently and would not be interested in a several month long MOBA match nor would I be interested in a MMO with no meaningful/lasting progression. I know about 60ish people looking forward to this game and if this is the route they take maybe 5 will give it a shot at launch...its just a terrible idea.

Well then they will probably be in for a tough time because most of the things that significantly distinguish your character in this game will be destructible.

Edited by VIKINGNAIL

Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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Well then they will probably be in for a tough time because most of the things that significantly distinguish your character in this game will be destructible.

 

But it doesn't necessarily need to be all things that significantly distinguish your character.  Coming back the other way a bit would do a lot to make the game appeal to more players and wouldn't hurt those who don't care so much. 


The Artist Formerly Known as Regulus

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No, I don't breeze right past them, unless they don't have substance, I give serious responses to people who come well-prepared.  I generally don't take angsty remarks seriously cause people who resort to that type of stuff generally just don't have good arguments.

 

 

Um, the reason I stopped responding in this thread, besides having gone on holiday for a few days, was you breezed right past this, what I feel is a substantive argument, twice.

 

 

That does not address two of my points.

 

"I would not be opposed to certain campaigns having a secondary training mechanic that you had to undergo for that specific campaign however. New players and old players would have an even ground in that world, without needing to wipe the old players progress."

 

I'll rephrase as a question.

 

What does a total skill wipe give you that could not be gained by creating individual campaigns where skills were trained specifically for it as part of it's parameters?  

 

The second outstanding issue is VIP status. You know, the way ACE plans to make ongoing income from players.  If you tell people that a year of VIP money is going to be erased with a skill wipe, what the hell is the incentive to even pay?

 

Also think about some of the options campaign gated skills opens up.  Skill time to train with campaign specific skills could be dramatically reduced, so you could complete a full archetype chain and a universal chain in a single 3 month game, or even shorter.  Players could "try before they buy" by entering these rapid worlds and see just what it is like to be something they can't be in the EK.

 
Edited by KrakkenSmacken

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