Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
Gwanstar

Multiple accounts? "Cheating"?

Recommended Posts

Wrong.

 

My combat character will be a duelist hidden in burrow mode. My harvester will be a knight. As soon as you attack my knight I'll block  until my duelist shows up and ambushes your ass. 

I should be able to turn around and kill your duelist first and fast then likely gonna be a templar, legionair or druid I be doing it with and you cant exactly oneshot any of those reliably (maybe the druid but deffo not legio and templar)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nothing. There's no way they can stop people from having multiple accounts. I think you're overestimating how many people will do something like this. Besides, if one side can do it, so can other other sides, which means the net effect is minimal.

"If one group has a unintended advantage other people will do it so its okay!" 

 

What a moral cop-out. Its the mob mentality defense that refuses to accept personal responsibility.

 

And you greatly underestimate peoples desire to have an advantage. People will strive for hours and hours to have even a tiny advantage. The multi-account advantage is quick, easy, extremely low commitment to a huge advantage. It will be rampant and be required to stay competitive in the crafting/harvesting market. Its borderline Pay-2-Win in the overall game plan, and definitely Pay-2-Win for crafting/harvesting. 

 

The sole fact that there have been so many threads and concerns about it should be a 'eye opener'. 

 

However, you are 100% correct that they cant stop people from having multiple account, however, there are absolutely tons of things they can do to limit the effect in game. The current framework of the game mechanics not only supports, but requires multiple accounts to stay competitive in non-combat mechanics. 

Edited by Vectious

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

K, let's say we do give VIP 3 general skills. What do we do about the people with multiple accounts then? 2-3 alt accounts being able to train 3 general skills each is all that's needed to be able to gather and craft what your main needs. You just gave people a way to break the economy. Congrats.

 

3 VIP accounts = $45 per month. That buys a new copy of the game each month basically. 

 

With the way it is now you could buy 9 game accounts for about $450. 9 non VIP Accounts would be the same amount of general skills as 3 VIP accounts (if they gave 3 general skills). 3 VIP accounts @ $15/month plus the $50 to buy each account would exceed the original $450 to buy 9 non-vip accounts at the 7 month mark. That means after 7 months you'd be better off having 9 non-vip accounts instead of 3 VIP Accounts (if they granted 3 general skills to train). So how exactly is allowing VIP's to train 3 general skills going to ruin the economy? If anything in the long run NOT giving VIP's the ability to train 3 general skills will break the economy because it will continue to promote the use of multiple accounts. 

 

I think letting VIP's train 3 general skills will result in more people buying VIP subscriptions which in the long run will be more revenue for the game which means ACE has more resources to make a better game. Nobody wants to have to manage a bunch of alt accounts but if it's the best way to be competitive then all the competitive gamers will do it. 

Edited by blazzen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I should be able to turn around and kill your duelist first and fast then likely gonna be a templar, legionair or druid I be doing it with and you cant exactly oneshot any of those reliably (maybe the druid but deffo not legio and templar)

 

That's still just a 1v1. I wouldn't bet on that being an automatic free win.

 

 

I imagine it would go something like this: https://youtu.be/Qz1dFv82x8c

 

Going to stop this discussion at this point though as to not derail the thread.  

Edited by blazzen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"If one group has a unintended advantage other people will do it so its okay!" 

 

What a moral cop-out. Its the mob mentality defense that refuses to accept personal responsibility.

 

The sole fact that there have been so many threads and concerns about it should be a 'eye opener'. 

 

. . .there are absolutely tons of things they can do to limit the effect in game. The current framework of the game mechanics not only supports, but requires multiple accounts to stay competitive in non-combat mechanics. 

 

First, you seem to be discussing the morality of the tactic.  Arkade was simply discussing the efficiency of the tactic.  Apples and oranges.  But I do find it amusing you talk about a "mob mentality" and then immediately state that because there have been "so many threads" about a topic, those concerns are somehow valid and should be taken seriously.  Is Arkade the one with the mob mentality, or you?  

 

Owning multiple accounts is not even remotely pay-to-win.  That phrase has been thrown around so much, and so misused, it's similar to calling someone a gummy bear in a political debate.  That's the card you play when you don't have any legitimate concerns, you just don't like something and want to tar it with a negative association.  An individual could own three accounts (PvP, crafting, harvesting) but those accounts don't receive any in-game advantage in items or progression speed.  It simply permits a player to have more options.  But those options are all on equal footing with other accounts of the same type.  

 

And it seems that your solution (and I'm making an assumption about this) is to solve the evil of multiple accounts by making a single account as effective as owning... multiple... accounts.  So your solution to the problem is to adopt the harm that you claim the problem creates? 

 

Edit:  lol @ gummy bear.

Edited by Nohmad

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

3 VIP accounts = $45 per month. That buys a new copy of the game each month basically.

 

There's nothing to say you couldn't buy a dozen accounts and go non-vip and do the same thing with just 1 general skill, right?

 

I think letting VIP's train 3 general skills will result in more people buying VIP subscriptions which in the long run will be more revenue for the game which means ACE has more resources to make a better game.

 

I'm trying to make the point that people will buy multiple accounts no matter what way you look at it. There are people playing eve that have half a dozen active accounts right now. That's 2 games a month. So believe me when I say, there is no fighting it. Adding 3 general skill training for VIP will only make things worse.

Edited by silhaku

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm trying to make the point that people will buy multiple accounts no matter what way you look at it. There are people playing eve that have half a dozen active accounts right now. That's 2 games a month. So believe me when I say, there is no fighting it. Adding 3 general skill training for VIP will only make things worse.

 

How would that make things worse? Your logic is ass backwards. Adding 3 general skills for VIP makes people LESS LIKELY TO BUY ADDITIONAL ACCOUNTS BECAUSE NOW THEY CAN TRAIN 3 GENERAL SKILLS.

 

At that point I imagine most people will be satisfied with being able to partake in each area of the game (harvesting, crafting and combat) with their one account instead of having to buy 3 in order to do so. 

 

And those that really want to power game it are going to buy multiple accounts no matter what, just like you said. However, as far as multiple accounts goes, going the VIP route with 3 general skills makes less sense after a few months per the math I provided in the post above. 

Edited by blazzen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How would that make things worse? Your logic is ass backwards. Adding 3 general skills for VIP makes people LESS LIKELY TO BUY ADDITIONAL ACCOUNTS BECAUSE NOW THEY CAN TRAIN 3 GENERAL SKILLS.

No, your logic is backwards.

 

There is still inherent value to multi-boxing. This just increases that value. It also simultaneously makes VIP pay-to-win by causing it to generate a significant power increase for everyone who has it, which is antithetical to the whole never-pay-to-win deal they've got going on.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle#Pre-alpha <--this is where we are. If your complaint is that the game don't not works good, come back later.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, your logic is backwards.

 

There is still inherent value to multi-boxing. This just increases that value. It also simultaneously makes VIP pay-to-win by causing it to generate a significant power increase for everyone who has it, which is antithetical to the whole never-pay-to-win deal they've got going on.

 

Does not increase power, it increases options.

 

You wouldn't be able to train 3 combat skills or 3 harvesting skills or 3 crafting skills. You'd only be able to train 1 of each, similar to how archetypes currently work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How would that make things worse? Your logic is ass backwards. Adding 3 general skills for VIP makes people LESS LIKELY TO BUY ADDITIONAL ACCOUNTS BECAUSE NOW THEY CAN TRAIN 3 GENERAL SKILLS.

Because people want to be self-sufficient. When people have the money to spend on it they will do so. With your system it makes it easier to obtain that. Paying 3 subs for 3 accounts and managing them sounds a lot easier than buying 9 accounts and managing all of them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Because people want to be self-sufficient. When people have the money to spend on it they will do so. With your system it makes it easier to obtain that. Paying 3 subs for 3 accounts and managing them sounds a lot easier than buying 9 accounts and managing all of them.

 

3 accounts with 3 subs is easier to manage from a time perspective but it's more costly from a financial perspective in the long run. Once you get into the tier 3 and higher skills it takes days to weeks to train them so it becomes easier and easier to manage training multiple accounts as time goes on. I don't find this to be a very compelling argument. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does not increase power, it increases options.

 

You wouldn't be able to train 3 combat skills or 3 harvesting skills or 3 crafting skills. You'd only be able to train 1 of each, similar to how archetypes currently work.

And that's what you remain blind to. You aren't taking in how big of a advantage it is to be able to do all 3. In a game that wants people to be interdependent. You are essentially letting people buy their way out of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

3 accounts with 3 subs is easier to manage from a time perspective but it's more costly from a financial perspective in the long run. Once you get into the tier 3 and higher skills it takes days to weeks to train them so it becomes easier and easier to manage training multiple accounts as time goes on. I don't find this to be a very compelling argument.

 

But you have to play all 9 counts. You have to go gather with one character, find a way to trade the items to a new character, craft on the other character (maybe multiple), then transfer the finish product to your main. That's a lot of logging time you are wasting here. Compared to being able to do all 3 on one character.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But you have to play all 9 counts. You have to go gather with one character, find a way to trade the items to a new character, craft on the other character (maybe multiple), then transfer the finish product to your main. That's a lot of logging time you are wasting here. Compared to being able to do all 3 on one character.

 

I'm assuming we will have guild banks. That makes it pretty easy. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And that's what you remain blind to. You aren't taking in how big of a advantage it is to be able to do all 3. In a game that wants people to be interdependent. You are essentially letting people buy their way out of it.

 

It certainly makes killing harvesters a lot more boring when you know they won't have much in the way of combat skills. 

 

Reliance on one another is still there because no single weapon or armor set requires less than 2 different types of materials which means 2 different harvesters and 2 different crafters. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

3 VIP accounts = $45 per month. That buys a new copy of the game each month basically. 

 

With the way it is now you could buy 9 game accounts for about $450. 9 non VIP Accounts would be the same amount of general skills as 3 VIP accounts (if they gave 3 general skills). 3 VIP accounts @ $15/month plus the $50 to buy each account would exceed the original $450 to buy 9 non-vip accounts at the 7 month mark. That means after 7 months you'd be better off having 9 non-vip accounts instead of 3 VIP Accounts (if they granted 3 general skills to train). So how exactly is allowing VIP's to train 3 general skills going to ruin the economy? If anything in the long run NOT giving VIP's the ability to train 3 general skills will break the economy because it will continue to promote the use of multiple accounts. 

 

I think letting VIP's train 3 general skills will result in more people buying VIP subscriptions which in the long run will be more revenue for the game which means ACE has more resources to make a better game. Nobody wants to have to manage a bunch of alt accounts but if it's the best way to be competitive then all the competitive gamers will do it. 

But but thats pay to win!! Except...... its not, as long as you cant train all three in combat. A person with out VIP that trains only combat will be on pare with a VIP thats training combat/harvesting/crafting. Same thing if a non-vip trains only crafting.

 

The fact that a VIP can do all three is called flexibility.

 

I think 3 general skills training for VIP is entirely legit, as long as you cant train all three in like combat, or all three in harvesting, etc.

 

 

And the 'reliability' with passive skill training is an illusion. If i thought i needed someone to harvest i would just get a second account, if i needed someone to craft what i just harvested, i would have a third account.

 

Passive Skills+Multi-Account=No reliability on other players.

Edited by Vectious

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

2 other points to consider:

 

1) What of the people who want to partake in each area of the game (harvesting, crafting and combat). You're forcing them to buy 3 accounts. It's either that or miss out on 2/3's of the game.

 

2) Depending on how difficult it is to swap between vessels VIP could be made relatively useless in its current form. If it's difficult to swap between vessels then why bother with training 3 separate archetypes? If the majority feel that way then ACE loses out on a big recurring revenue stream and has less resources to further develop the game. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

2 other points to consider:

 

1) What of the people who want to partake in each area of the game (harvesting, crafting and combat). You're forcing them to buy 3 accounts. It's either that or miss out on 2/3's of the game.

 

2) Depending on how difficult it is to swap between vessels VIP could be made relatively useless in its current form. If it's difficult to swap between vessels then why bother with training 3 separate archetypes? If the majority feel that way then ACE loses out on a big recurring revenue stream and has less resources to further develop the game. 

You are assuming the 3 archetype training queue will be the only VIP incentive. And they don't have to miss out on the other aspects of the game. If a person really wants to experience all 3 then he shouldn't focus on only one. Divide your training up a little. People shouldn't be so afraid of falling behind because the gains shouldn't be that big. If they are, then the skill tree is a flawed design, not the VIP.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Where did they say they are not against the use of bots?

 

And bots and macros are against the TOS. You can have multiple accounts, but you aren't allowed to control any toon with any software that wasn't written by ACE or alter their code in any way.

Ah, indeed. My english isn't that good. I thought condone meant the exact opposite.

 

"We do not condone the use of bots or macros in Crowfall." from the FAQ

 

 

I feel like the community will police itself on this front.

 

If a lot of people are doing this - like, enough people to completely block off a server - they aren't playing the game. They are dedicating themselves to what will probably end up being several months of farming alone. That sounds super boring to me, but to each their own. Some servers might be dead without people cheating to make them that way.

 

On the other hand, if they aren't completely blocking off the server, I imagine the people on the side getting the shaft will figure out creative ways to punish the people messing with them. Shadowbane had politics like this. There were people who snuck into other peoples' guilds with alt accounts to sow chaos from the inside on behalf of their main account's guild. It added something to the game.

Could you elaborate on the Shadowbane politics?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does not increase power, it increases options.

 

You wouldn't be able to train 3 combat skills or 3 harvesting skills or 3 crafting skills. You'd only be able to train 1 of each, similar to how archetypes currently work.

Yeah you can train 2 combat related skill at a time instead. Exploration has quite a few combat related skill in it, Vessels are an important combat one (Stats and stronger bodies along with leader ship archetype aswell as tracking will be important for combat.

 

The thing is the devs want people not to be self effiecient which is reason why u can only do one, i just wish they split the tree 1 for anything combat related or can help combat such as vessels and tracking tree to be paired with combat and all crafting/harvesting skill be paired up and u can only learn one from each pair at a time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...