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Ricco96

Arrows inventory

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9 minutes ago, Jah said:

Quivers would not be infinite because they would have durability like any other gear.

? I dont see the point then? Either it is big enough to be "infinite" or they could increase how many arrows you can get in a pack.

The quiver durability should be something like a few dozen thousand arrows since you can use 100+ arrows in a fight. Probably more? It should last a few days since people want to equip it and forget... those lazy players.

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23 minutes ago, BarriaKarl said:

So the quivers would have type and stats. They would also have infinite ammo? Since that is the point.

I think it would break the balance. It is hard to put it in words but either you bring the stats down to balance how you dont need to worry about quantity or/and the quiver decay is stupidly high to balance the fact you wouldnt need to replace it (it cant be same of other weapons).

The quiver having stats also nulls the point. It basically turns in a infinite arrow stack since it wouldnt stack and you have to keep different quivers in your inventory (just type since multiple stats are irrelevant since you would just use the better).

So in the end we get to the infinite ammo discussion. This is one is too subjective for me, i for one prefer finite ammo while some people just dont want to micromanage that so they would support infinite ammo. Not really much of a point.

I just had the weirdest idea and it might be possible to have both? Infinite kinda crappy arrows and cool and with better stats finite arrows? You get to choose which one to use? I would need to see how much arrows actually impact the end result to be sure but it may work.

Arrows being a pain in the ass doesn't "balance" the 2,800 left click my fully trained Ranger does on occasion. Even if the pain in the ass arrows represent was intended to be a "balancing" mechanic, it would be a really dumb way to balance.

Just lower the damage, dur.

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12 minutes ago, coolwaters said:

Arrows being a pain in the ass doesn't "balance" the 2,800 left click my fully trained Ranger does on occasion. Even if the pain in the ass arrows represent was intended to be a "balancing" mechanic, it would be a really dumb way to balance.

Just lower the damage, dur.

First, i think they should up the arrow quantity you get from crafting. 100 is a joke.

Second, i think the plan is to mass produce arrows so you would be capable of buying stacks that are a multiple of 100 arrows instead of multiple stacks of 100 arrows.

I think the above would explain the ridiculous values we get from crafting right now. Still think a stack of 1000 arrows would help.

The only thing i agree with people is that when you have a stack with just dozens arrows left trowing it away is good choice. That shouldnt happen. Auto equipping the next pack OF THE SAME TYPE should be a good option.

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I'm gonna throw my lot in with the quiver idea for a few reasons. First, a quiver will last longer than a stack of arrows. You won't end up with 8 different stacks of the same type of arrow that can't be merged because one stay is different, improving inventory management. 

Most importantly to me, with a quiver the devs could make it so once the quiver exhausts it can still be used until you leave combat. That way you aren't stuck pulling your trousers back up in the middle of a fight. I would much rather cycle between 3-4 quivers as opposed to 12 different stacks of arrows. 

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I like the variety of the types of arrows you can craft even though not usable right now but we can do more with the quivers in my opinion and would take out the tediousness off crafting arrows.  I've only played rangers so far and would love this to be in now.  

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I still am going to go with the opinion that requiring arrows or even a quiver as a mechanic for rangers does not add anything of value to the class that can't be accomplished in another way (example: the preparation comment i made earlier.) To say, 'ranger is unique because he requires a physical resource dependence greater than other classes' feels more like a gimmick than a unique character identity. There honestly is no need for either a quiver or arrows. I don't even like the idea that an item can 100% break (I'm fine with it degrading in stats as a money sink,) but the idea that I can be stuck unable to do ANYTHING because my physical inventory of arrows ran out or my quiver broke is just ridiculous. It feels horrible to have happen, it wastes time to make arrows, and it doesn't add anything to the game that can't be added in a more elegant way. 

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18 minutes ago, Diage said:

I still am going to go with the opinion that requiring arrows or even a quiver as a mechanic for rangers does not add anything of value to the class that can't be accomplished in another way (example: the preparation comment i made earlier.) To say, 'ranger is unique because he requires a physical resource dependence greater than other classes' feels more like a gimmick than a unique character identity. There honestly is no need for either a quiver or arrows. I don't even like the idea that an item can 100% break (I'm fine with it degrading in stats as a money sink,) but the idea that I can be stuck unable to do ANYTHING because my physical inventory of arrows ran out or my quiver broke is just ridiculous. It feels horrible to have happen, it wastes time to make arrows, and it doesn't add anything to the game that can't be added in a more elegant way. 

When we start making stacks of thousand of arrows you would need to be careless to run out of ammo.

The reason people dislike arrows right now is because it is a pain to craft and equip arrows after every fight. So i think we should wait for more tech to come online before changing anything.

If the Devs could just come and upgrade the amount of arrows we can craft at once to 10 (or more) times the amount it would be a great temporary fix.

An auto re-equip of arrows (of the same kind) would also be awesome.

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Just now, BarriaKarl said:

When we start making stacks of thousand of arrows you would need to be careless to run out of ammo.

The reason people dislike arrows right now is because it is a pain to craft and equip arrows after every fight. So i think we should wait for more tech to come online before changing anything.

If the Devs could just come and upgrade the amount of arrows we can craft at once to 10 (or more) times the amount it would be a great temporary fix.

An auto re-equip of arrows (of the same kind) would also be awesome.

That still doesn't justify why arrows need to even exist in the first place. Just because its possible for someone to potentially make a thousand of them (yey inventory) is also not a justification to have them. I can have this argument from more than one direction, I also don't see why there is a greater dependence on a ranger to spend more time and energy crafting additional gear components that other classes simply do not have. It's a time sink that makes playing the ranger a tedious task that you have to substantially plan for if you choose to play ranger.

I can't for the life of me think of a justification for having arrows. I am deeply curious, however, if a justification exists that couldn't be done in a more interesting and novel way. Why do you believe having ammunition for rangers is not just reasonable, but preferable?

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9 minutes ago, Diage said:

That still doesn't justify why arrows need to even exist in the first place. Just because its possible for someone to potentially make a thousand of them (yey inventory) is also not a justification to have them. I can have this argument from more than one direction, I also don't see why there is a greater dependence on a ranger to spend more time and energy crafting additional gear components that other classes simply do not have. It's a time sink that makes playing the ranger a tedious task that you have to substantially plan for if you choose to play ranger.

I can't for the life of me think of a justification for having arrows. I am deeply curious, however, if a justification exists that couldn't be done in a more interesting and novel way. Why do you believe having ammunition for rangers is not just reasonable, but preferable?

You dont need to craft? You just need to make a stop in a shop, click a few times and boom! 9999 arrows to you. They will (should) take one inventory space so no biggie.

I just dont see a problem. I try to think of how the game will be at release. I played games where going to town to restock was a basic rule. Will do that while playing my ranger, nothing new...

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1 minute ago, BarriaKarl said:

You dont need to craft? You just need to make a stop in a shop, click a few times and boom! 9999 arrows to you. They will (should) take one inventory space so no biggie.

I just dont see a problem. I try to think of how the game will be at release. I played games where going to town to restock was a basic rule. Will do that while playing my ranger, nothing new...

Sure, 9999 of one type of arrow. But what if you wanted to try to take advantage of one of the 'appeals' of the inventory system and have arrows of varying types and quality? That certainly won't be represented in a single stack of 9999. And I am not entirely sure how the whole crafting system will end up rolling out, but I would imagine you would have to spend some time to build up the infrastructure to afford you the luxury of just stopping by and getting 9999 arrows. Not to mention thats infrastructure and physical expense that the other classes simply won't have, potentially making the ranger one of the most expensive classes to play.  Further still, large stacks of arrows have an odd quality of increasing the chance you completely forget to check your arrow inventory at least at SOME point while playing the game and boom - you're out of arrows and are now completely worthless. 

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I think arrows are great, and I wish people weren't conditioned to easy-mode inventory in this day and age.

What would also be cool is if spell casters required reagents to use their spells and crafting played a great roll in creating high or low quality reagents that would impact the spell behavior and/or damage. 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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3 minutes ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

I think arrows are great, and I wish people weren't conditioned to easy-mode inventory in this day and age.

What would also be cool is if spell casters required reagents to use their spells and crafting played a great roll in creating high or low quality reagents that would impact the spell behavior and/or damage. 

This is the mentality I am interested in. What exactly do you believe reagents of any kind, whether for spell casters or for archers, brings to the game?

Edited by Diage

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Just now, Diage said:

This is the mentality I am interested in. What exactly do you believe reagents of any kind, whether for spell casters or for archers, really brings to the game?

Logistics and tactics. 

Obviously you have to be more careful with how and when you use abilities and manage your inventory when there are many elements contributing to it.  Whether it's managing resources like mana, or resources like toad legs. 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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10 minutes ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

I think arrows are great, and I wish people weren't conditioned to easy-mode inventory in this day and age.

What would also be cool is if spell casters required reagents to use their spells and crafting played a great roll in creating high or low quality reagents that would impact the spell behavior and/or damage. 

As a "Professional PVP Coach" maybe you consider it "easy mode" but for most of us who have a life outside gaming we call it "tedious". 

Reagents add a lot of time and annoyance to creating gear bags. It didn't add much of anything to Darkfall other than tedium (so much so that they eliminated most reagents in DF2). 

It's already going to take plenty of time to craft vessels, disciplines, armor, weapons, etc. that we don't need to add reagents on top of it. 

I already made a suggestion regarding this that would allow bow users to keep the flexibility of crafting different types/qualities of arrows without the tedium. I'm not suggesting to remove the crafting element only the tedium. 

 

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Just now, blazzen said:

As a "Professional PVP Coach" maybe you consider it "easy mode" but for most of us who have a life outside gaming we call it "tedious". 

Reagents add a lot of time and annoyance to creating gear bags. It didn't add much of anything to Darkfall other than tedium (so much so that they eliminated most reagents in DF2). 

It's already going to take plenty of time to craft vessels, disciplines, armor, weapons, etc. that we don't need to add reagents on top of it. 

I already made a suggestion regarding this that would allow bow users to keep the flexibility of crafting different types/qualities of arrows without the tedium. I'm not suggesting to remove the crafting element only the tedium. 

 

Perhaps people should use the "having a life outside of gaming" to try to justify softening everything in this game so it can be another easy-mode mmorpg specifically designed for casuals.  Like gw2 or something. 

You find it tedious because you want things easy, not because it interferes with your life outside of gaming. 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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17 minutes ago, VIKINGNAIL said:

Logistics and tactics. 

Obviously you have to be more careful with how and when you use abilities and manage your inventory when there are many elements contributing to it.  Whether it's managing resources like mana, or resources like toad legs. 

But logistics and tactics of skill usage and management can be implemented in ways that don't detriment entire audiences. You want to give players the flexibility to actually enjoy PLAYING the game. There really is no value in being required to spend some number of hours and resources before you are given a right to enjoy playing the game. Effective resource systems and cooldowns should more than suffice to give you that cost-benefit formula you're looking for while not making certain classes simply a source of work. 

 

Not sure why, 'crafting arrows and reagents' adds any actual skill to the game. 

Edited by Diage

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Just now, VIKINGNAIL said:

Perhaps people should use the "having a life outside of gaming" to try to justify softening everything in this game so it can be another easy-mode mmorpg specifically designed for casuals.  Like gw2 or something. 

You find it tedious because you want things easy, not because it interferes with your life outside of gaming. 

I'm an advocate for free for all, full loot, open world PVP. There's nothing easy mode about that.

Reagents fall into the category of tedium. It's not HARD to get reagents. It's EASY to get reagents. It's just time consuming and annoying. 

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9 minutes ago, Diage said:

There really is no value in being required to spend some number of hours and resources before you are given a right to enjoy playing the game.

Like i said all you need is one crafter and money. It is not that hard.

I have to agree with VN, you guys are just being lazy and want to have things easy.

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2 minutes ago, Diage said:

But logistics and tactics of skill usage and management can be implemented in ways that don't detriment entire audiences. You want to give players the flexibility to actually enjoy PLAYING the game. There really is no value in being required to spend some number of hours and resources before you are given a right to enjoy playing the game. Effective resource systems and cooldowns should more than suffice to give you that cost-benefit formula you're looking for while not making certain classes simply a source of work. 

 

Not sure why, 'crafting arrows and reagents' adds any actual skill to the game. 

Any time there is any sort of work or pre-planning involved, some players are going to say that is an unenjoyable experience.  It all boils down to how conditioned someone is to convenience.  You could make the same entire argument about any gear based element in crowfall, which is almost all of it.  Some guy will say he can't enjoy the game until he gets the discipline he wants, but he may have to spend hours and resources to get it.  Some might say it about a legendary weapon, etc etc.

Just now, blazzen said:

I'm an advocate for free for all, full loot, open world PVP. There's nothing easy mode about that.

Reagents fall into the category of tedium. It's not HARD to get reagents. It's EASY to get reagents. It's just time consuming and annoying. 

Are you sure in a free for all full loot open world pvp it is going to not be hard to get reagents?  Skillful people will gather it efficiently, it won't be as time-consuming for them.  And yes it is going to be annoying for people that want things easier. 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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