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soulein

The Gathering Life

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Scree has posted an article on his swanky blog detailing the process required to equip a new player, with or without trained up gathering skills. The data he collected during the testing seems to suggest that guilds and players who skill up their gathering skills have a much easier time (and therefore, a greater advantage) of crafting and gearing.

 

We know most people interested in this game are either pvp'ers or dedicated crafters, but what about gatherers? Are there people out there who will enjoy going out and farming resources all day? The Gathering skill trees are extensive, with many varying branches of skills to train up, meaning that a player could spend a lot time specializing in that tree before ever branching out into crafting or combat focused skill lines. 

 

For me, hitting nodes has never been something I've been really interested in, but neither do I want to be at a disadvantage. My concern is that gathering will be this poorly made socks sandwich, where we all have to take a bite. I'd much rather escort a caravan full of PoI generated resources (possibly generating some pvp) than scour the map for nodes, pick in hand. Maybe that's just me though, and there's some farmlord out there who can't wait to strip mine the world parcel by parcel.

 

What about y'all?


Shadowbane - House Avari/Hy'shen
"Gimp elves get good elves killed." - Belina

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It's a social game, sometimes you have to sacrifice for the greater good, sometimes you can utilize other players that want to do the things you don't want to do. 

 

Every guild trying to min/max has always required sacrifice, whether that's farming felwood for consumables, or carving out 4 hours a night in your schedule to raid.


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Gathering will be just as important as crafting, and in some respects more so. One crafter can go through mats faster than one gatherer can gather. To this end, gathering (and keeping) mats is going to be paramount. 

 

There are people who are dedicated gatherers, and actually enjoy doing it; I assume because wealth accumulation is something they find cathartic or enjoyable, I haven't asked. I know I, personally, get a small sense of accomplishment by stocking my inventory full of stuffs, not so much that I'd main a pick swinger but enough that I can acknowledge the feeling.   

 

I think it would behoove any guild that wants to be effective to have dedicated gatherers. I can see one or two out of a group of five being gatherers and three to four guards as being the norm (assuming 5-man party stays) for harvesting runs. I also see people who main skilled gatherers being a highly sought-after commodity by guilds, or even really hardcore guilds forcing members to skill up gathering because of its importance. Of course, the longer people play and skill up the more the lines between roles gets blurred and gatherers/guards will eventually become one in the same. 

Edited by chodie

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I don't love harvesting, but I also don't hate it. I have played enough games like Rust where I have grown tired of sitting at nodes hitting them (this is boring gameplay). That being said the shear fact that harvesting sucks makes the risk reward that much better in the game. Now when I kill players and steal their harvested goods I get the true value of those goods. I can see the reward as 2 hours of a boring chore and I am that much more excited with my spoils of war. On the flip side I am that much more bummed when I die and lose these goods. This is actually a good thing, I hate games where death has 0 consequence.

 

That being said I will grow tired of harvesting after some time and if I can't be mostly proficient through PVP, I will be turned off by constantly having to harvest.

​Maybe I am missing it, maybe its not out there, but could someone expand on the point of interest mines and quarries and how they work. Do you get a tick from just owning those areas, or do you control those areas and get to "harvest" for better than normal rewards.

 

I personally think it is great if we have other ways to gain resources aside from hitting nodes and hitting players for their resources. I think the idea of the points of interest is supposed to be that other method, but I don't know enough about those systems.

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I think it would behoove any guild that wants to be effective to have dedicated gatherers. I can see one or two out of a group of five being gatherers and three to four guards as being the norm (assuming 5-man party stays) for harvesting runs. I also see people who main skilled gatherers being a highly sought-after commodity by guilds, or even really hardcore guilds forcing members to skill up gathering because of its importance. Of course, the longer people play and skill up the more the lines between roles gets blurred and gatherers/guards will eventually become one in the same.

 

I like the premise of this as I feel crafters/gatherers are an important dynamic of a game like this. They should be sought after and desired for a party.

 

This brought me to an idea I liked. It would be cool if guilds could allow open recruitment which uses the skill tree. You could basically open a position in a guild for a harvester who has "x" in skill tree or has completed 50% of x skill tree. This would allow the harvester with sought out abilities to look at what guilds are recruiting and join that guild based on his abilities. This would help guild owners force their guild into a more well rounded build to be successful. Otherwise it could be a pain trying to weed out which players can do what in your guild so you don't have a guild of 100% combat skill tree players.

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I love gathering in other games, I find it relaxing to explore  looking for more nodes and thrilling when I do find a rarer mat than I was expecting.  I don't know if I will be able to enjoy it in Crowfall simply because of the heavy pvp focus.  AKA the popular wisdom will be "it is easier to harvest gathereres than it is to gather" and who wants to spend a bunch of time accumulating mats just to have someone sneak up on you and stunlock you and loose the fruits of all your hard work?

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It seems like harvesting will be quite a grind without the harvesting skills, and leveling the harvesting skills could take weeks. It's safe to assume that a lot of player's first impressions of the game will be holding down an F button to grind out the resources they need for gear. That may turn off a great number of people who don't have time in their day for a second job.


Shadowbane - House Avari/Hy'shen
"Gimp elves get good elves killed." - Belina

Avari Discord - https://discord.gg/Bch24PV

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I don't love harvesting, but I also don't hate it. I have played enough games like Rust where I have grown tired of sitting at nodes hitting them (this is boring gameplay). That being said the shear fact that harvesting sucks makes the risk reward that much better in the game. Now when I kill players and steal their harvested goods I get the true value of those goods. I can see the reward as 2 hours of a boring chore and I am that much more excited with my spoils of war. On the flip side I am that much more bummed when I die and lose these goods. This is actually a good thing, I hate games where death has 0 consequence.

 

That being said I will grow tired of harvesting after some time and if I can't be mostly proficient through PVP, I will be turned off by constantly having to harvest.

​Maybe I am missing it, maybe its not out there, but could someone expand on the point of interest mines and quarries and how they work. Do you get a tick from just owning those areas, or do you control those areas and get to "harvest" for better than normal rewards.

 

I personally think it is great if we have other ways to gain resources aside from hitting nodes and hitting players for their resources. I think the idea of the points of interest is supposed to be that other method, but I don't know enough about those systems.

 

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

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It is going to be a balance even for mostly dedicated gatherers...  tier 1 and 2 combat skills and only getting the most important ones to mitigate damage and cc, play to evade and survive while the most time is spent in a single material line.  It is the designated Johnny apple gatherer that I pity in the short term, the future farmer kids. Scouts will have to get scout skills,  everyone needs better vessel skills, every group will need a leadership player trained as well.   Very few will be pure combat specialists.  A lot will depend on the mat intake and gear distribution methods of your organization.  If gear is funneled to your best players first and your having everything harvested as guild events, some people not on the list will need to go off-hours harvesting to get the mats to have gear made for themselves.  In a free for all organization, yea, everyone is gonna have to be self-sufficient and fall off the top combat skill curve.  If an organization expects individual donations and the gear flow does not feel fair, the gatherers will horde the quality mats for themselves somewhat gimping the organizations overall fighting abilities.


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Gatherer will have a hard time. More they are, less they benefit. Less they are, more people will focus on pvp and hunt them down. And this means lost tools and goods. Hiring guards will be difficult as they require some payment beforehand. And even then it doesn't have to be enough.

 

I don't think many people will focus on harvesting tree. It is better to hunt others. Finding weapons will be hard though.


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I would like to know more about how the resource POIs will work.

 

 - What type of resources spawn at POIs:  only lowest tier for building or crafting suitable? 

 - Does it require any type of skill training to access the POI resources?

 

Also the group mega-nodes still seem bugged as you don't get bigger quantities of resources from them atm. I thought the idea of these was supposed to be one player had the skill, and a couple others in the group help hit the node and you get 3-5x the resources.

 

And yea, I like harvesting :P   I'd rather be out roaming in the open world, and bring back the mats to the crafter who can figure out all the stats/combines/production. I'd like a group-based system that doesn't force everyone to take harvesting skills, but guilds would benefit from a few people that do.


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I am normally a gatherer. I enjoy it and I have done so in every game I have ever played. Unfortunately, I do not think I will enjoy it in Crowfall. I was happy when I found out about the dedicated harvesting tree but I feel it is far too tedious to be fun and it seems it will take way too long to make it worthwhile. I just really dislike the skill trees in general but I think they are worse when it comes to harvesting and crafting. In the valiant attempt to make these play styles matter, they have somehow gone so overboard that it feels more like a burden that is no longer fun, even for someone who normally  has a high tolerance for mundane and repetetive tasks. Disclaimer: this is just my opinion for the current test. I plan to try it it once everything is tweaked for balance. If it has still not improved, I may just set my harvester to train and harvest once I have the necessary skills, to minimize the annoyance and burn out. I have a feeling that anyone who has the patience to harvest from the beginning will be highly sought after but will most likely burn out extremely quickly. I remain cautious.

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I am normally a gatherer. I enjoy it and I have done so in every game I have ever played. Unfortunately, I do not think I will enjoy it in Crowfall. I was happy when I found out about the dedicated harvesting tree but I feel it is far too tedious to be fun and it seems it will take way too long to make it worthwhile. I just really dislike the skill trees in general but I think they are worse when it comes to harvesting and crafting. In the valiant attempt to make these play styles matter, they have somehow gone so overboard that it feels more like a burden that is no longer fun, even for someone who normally  has a high tolerance for mundane and repetetive tasks. Disclaimer: this is just my opinion for the current test. I plan to try it it once everything is tweaked for balance. If it has still not improved, I may just set my harvester to train and harvest once I have the necessary skills, to minimize the annoyance and burn out. I have a feeling that anyone who has the patience to harvest from the beginning will be highly sought after but will most likely burn out extremely quickly. I remain cautious.

 

I am not saying you are wrong, but can you elaborate? The complaint is so general I do not really understand what it is in the skill tree that makes harvesting feel like a burden.

 

I personally think the Combat skill tree is boring as every choice seems to add marginal benefits to your character like increased attack power. I would like to see the combat tree unlock abilities or allow combat user to wear higher tier gear.

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I'd like to mention that we only have one kind of harvesting open to us at the moment, that is hitting a single node at a time until it gives us a handful of stuff. But as far at it is presented, that will mainly be for situations like, I'm out scouting and oh, my bow broke! I'll hit a few trees and make a quick one until I can get a better one at the base!

 

The resource factories are mentioned to produce something like 3000 units at a time, which will be the main sources of material for most dedicated crafters who are working to outfit a guild or a faction. And securing that node will require fighters, and getting those materials back to town to feed the factories will require caravans and guards. Which will be fun!

Edited by Fantastikon

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I'd like to mention that we only have one kind of harvesting open to us at the moment, that is hitting a single node at a time until it gives us a handful of stuff. But as far at it is presented, that will mainly be for situations like, I'm out scouting and oh, my bow broke! I'll hit a few trees and make a quick one until I can get a better one at the base!

 

The resource factories are mentioned to produce something like 3000 units at a time, which will be the main sources of material for most dedicated crafters who are working to outfit a guild or a faction. And securing that node will require fighters, and getting those materials back to town to feed the factories will require caravans and guards. Which will be fun!

Actually, resource factories are for low-grade mass materials that will be utilized (presumably) for structures and siege weaponry.  Any of the high-end materials that you will want to use for gear will still be harvested in the current fashion.

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Actually, resource factories are for low-grade mass materials that will be utilized (presumably) for structures and siege weaponry.  Any of the high-end materials that you will want to use for gear will still be harvested in the current fashion.

 

Do we have a source on that? I've only heard players speculating about it.


Shadowbane - House Avari/Hy'shen
"Gimp elves get good elves killed." - Belina

Avari Discord - https://discord.gg/Bch24PV

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I am not saying you are wrong, but can you elaborate? The complaint is so general I do not really understand what it is in the skill tree that makes harvesting feel like a burden.

 

I guess the best way to explain it is to pretend that you are starting a new campaign in Big World. You will need to harvest without potions and using only basic or maybe copper tools. You and your guild mates (if you are lucky enough to be in a guild with other harvesters) will have to decide who will train and harvest what resource, since you can only really be efficient in one type. This should give you an example of what it might feel like during the first several months of the game. If the first campaign experience is so horrible and tedious for harvesters because of the lack of skills, they will burn out and might not stick around to try again.

 

On the subject of resource factories. I have no idea how they will work but mass production is a skill in the basic crafting tree, which branches off into a mass production promotional skill tree. This looks like it will take significantly less time to train for potentially way more benefit. If resource factories bypass the harvesting skill requirements, then the harvesting skill tree is a waste of time. Large pvp guilds won't actually need individual harvesters at all and anyone looking to harvest would be better off practicing their pvp skills in order to protect the factory resources. If factories do require harvesting skills, refer to my first paragraph. 

Edited by Mytherceria

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I have personally always enjoyed harvesting more than crafting. I agree with Mira, I think it has to do with being out in the world and having some control over the amount of risk I am willing to take. In Shadowbane, the closest thing to harvesting was basically harvesting disciplines - I loved those PvP engagements, I relished ninja-looting, and my favorite moments were 2v2v3v1v1v2v1s. I am really hoping that CF can do that for me again, including PoIs as risk/people magnets. Will there be zergs? Sure. Often in SB I ran and lived to fight another day, but I liked having to be creative to beat zergs, too.


Mic MWH, Member of Mithril Warhammers since 2003,


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Actually, resource factories are for low-grade mass materials that will be utilized (presumably) for structures and siege weaponry.  Any of the high-end materials that you will want to use for gear will still be harvested in the current fashion.

Where did you get this information from?


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