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Nikbis

About survival mechanics

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Since I (finally :D ) have access to the test, my head is clearly overwhelmed with many toughts. Highs expectations over here ;)

Most are already discussed. However, I feel, except when it comes to "APPLES !!!" / hunger, there is not much said about the survival aspect of Crowfall.

We'll have harsh cold seasons. Will we be able to randomly go out without caring about temperature ? There are campfire, but what about warm cloths ? A dedicated profession and/or the basics to stay warm enought in a survivalist skill tree ?
Or maybe the opposite season, with overheat and its need of water and shadow/shelter.
There is no map/minimap, but what about drawing some (I think I've already read it somewhere) ? The ability to reproduce or falsify one ? Usefull if you want to trade with or lure someone.
Being able to identify edible and poisonous berries/plants ? Finding more than anyone else ?

I feel a dedicated "survivalist" should have his/her part in a group when it's time to leave the homebase, especially when you go off the beaten tracks.

What are your toughts about a true, viable survivalist skill tree as main ? And in a wider scale, the needs outside the safety in number, in the wilderness ?

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Well, there's a "warmth" statistic, which implies that yes, temperature and adverse weather will be considerations for survival.

As confirmed by JTC, "warmth" is currently what the playerbase refers to as "hunger" in relation to the chicken ticker and/or how/when their character needs to eat, not something regarding temperature, though that may become a thing in the future.


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Good questions. I think we're all trying to figure out some of those answers.

Yep, I've noticed some are talking survival stuff here and there quite often without mentioning it explicitly.

 

I have plenty of time right now, I've started to dig through the forum.

I'll try to come up with a little more elaborated thread.

 

Thanks for the answers =)

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This is all on early stages, the systems were put in but there are several missing pieces still.

 

I for one would love to see a more elaborate survivalist tree, better cooking, an overall more "in-depth" survival system. But for now I think this is what we have, it is dull and hopefully will be improved upon when the time comes.


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I'm not to keen on the survival aspects of Crowfall. The "Throne War" (SB, EVE) design direction and the "Survival Game" design direction (Minecraft/Rust/ARK) don't compliment each other very well. Keeping track of my food feels like a thankless, punitive chore. If it becomes interesting later on during siege situations, I may reconsider my position.


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I'm not to keen on the survival aspects of Crowfall. The "Throne War" (SB, EVE) design direction and the "Survival Game" design direction (Minecraft/Rust/ARK) don't compliment each other very well. Keeping track of my food feels like a thankless, punitive chore. If it becomes interesting later on during siege situations, I may reconsider my position.

 

The whole premise and background for Crowfall has always been survival; dying worlds, the hunger, the changing seasons with dwindling resources, mobs becoming more aggressive etc. 

 

Early concept video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufu-L4dMh7E&index=5&list=PLVKduOhPTRsLW6Hjhk82mraTO7RHvF0gt

 

Its a battle to survive and become champions of the dying worlds.

 

The food mechanics we have in front of us now are just for testing (yes its a pain now) - the numbers will get 'tweeked'.


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Throne War yes, as in "It's like Game of Thrones meets EVE Online".
In Game of Thrones, the Nightwatch, on its way to mess around with the Free Folk, has to crash at Craster's, beacause they need a warm place where they can eat.

I believe that's a part of what "Throne War" means. We can't just wander around mindlessly. At least not under the harsher climates.

I've played Minecraft and ARK, yet I've never thought about these as survival games.

Recently I've spent a lot of time in The Division, an average game. However its Survival DLC entertained me more than I thought. Shorter but better than the base game.
Here, the game mechanics are somewhat good enought to do the job. But put alone, people would have tossed it into the oblivion as fast as it came out. What makes the difference, paired with the game mechanics, is how the snow storm is rendered, the visual (and sound) experience.
In Minecraft and ARK, I refill bars. In Survival's The Division, I struggle with a storm. Its all about immersion.

 

Back to Crowfall.
If surviving is refilling a chicken wings bar from time to time, we are better off without it.
However, if the sound/visual experience is well designed, convincing, Crowfall may succed in what the other so called survival multiplayer game based genre tried but failed at so far.

 

Now consider this scenario.
Your guild is stuck in its fort. Outside, the blizzard is raging, the field of view is severely narrowed. It might last 10min or 10 days, real days.
The last thing between you and the victory is this other guild, presumably stuck in its fort too. Your scout drew a map leading to them right before the blizzard, so there are high chances they are still at the same place. At this stage of the campain, nobody would risk all the materials gathered to move.
It might be the perfect time to catch them by surprise. Maybe you'll have to break a wall in the exterior. With any luck, the blizzard will cover the noise. Or maybe you all can just sneak in.
You are waiting, hidden, that someone goes out. Maybe a crafter whom need any material stocked nearby. The door is now opened, that's your chance. You kill him/her, go inside and find your opponents in crafting gear (if there is such thing), or doing whatever task without a proper battlegear.
That's how your guild win this 1-3 months long CW.

I forget about the food you should bring, or what's is required to break the wall, there are flaw in my scenario, but you get the idea ;)
When I talk about survival, it's both the feeling of immersion everyone will get plus a dedicated tree as much important as crafters, fighters and gatherers will be.
Now that I'm writing it down, it could even be another link in the "food chain" : Survivalist (guiding the) -> Gatherer -> Crafter -> Fighter.

About the food, I just hope we won't have to take care of every 10mins. These kind of needs must be tied to what you're doing. A fighter should need to eat and drink more often than a crafter.

 

I'm saying this as an hardcore solo player. Under such circumstances, I may enjoy playing with others !

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The whole premise and background for Crowfall has always been survival; dying worlds, the hunger, the changing seasons with dwindling resources, mobs becoming more aggressive etc. 

 

Early concept video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufu-L4dMh7E&index=5&list=PLVKduOhPTRsLW6Hjhk82mraTO7RHvF0gt

 

Its a battle to survive and become champions of the dying worlds.

 

The food mechanics we have in front of us now are just for testing (yes its a pain now) - the numbers will get 'tweeked'.

I know. I just think it's a mistake.

Edited by soulein

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"Gimp elves get good elves killed." - Belina

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I know. I just think it's a mistake.

There is a whole skill tree dedicated to make food. 

The devs allready said they will no longer craft any mechanics just for testing purpose(like the hunger dome). Numbers will be tweaked but in general every system build is for the final game.

The Food mechanic is an importand anti zerg mechanic. A big guild needs a lot of food and if they dont stockpile enough food in the beginning of the campain , then they may starve off in winter and even loose to small guilds in fights.

 

In the current test version all you have to do is hunt some board for meat and you are set on food for hours even more if you are in a group. 

Campfires dont work right now and thats one big reason why not many played in the last test. They will most likely fix that until the next test.

Food needs to go fast down like it is currently. (It only goes fast down if you jump around non stop or keep using sprint).

If it was easy to bypass the food then no one would take the Farming skill tree.

 

That beeing the devs also said that some like what they are doing and others dont. There is no way to make everyone happy.

The food is one of these cases. You may not like it but i do.


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Survival mechanics are great, this game will have so many interesting elements.  It might seem tedious for people who want a casual jump-in and fight experience but that's why this isn't a full on moba and is instead part mmorpg.


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The Food mechanic is an importand anti zerg mechanic. A big guild needs a lot of food and if they dont stockpile enough food in the beginning of the campain , then they may starve off in winter and even loose to small guilds in fights.

Nonsense. Assuming similar individual activity levels, food maintenance requires the same percentage of activity in a large guild as a small one. If 10 players need to dedicate 20% of their game time to picking apples, then 500 players also need to dedicate 20% of their game time to picking apples.

 

If we posit that a small guild probably has a higher individual activity level than a large guild, then the food mechanic actually penalizes the small guild.

Edited by Jihan

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Nonsense. Assuming similar individual activity levels, food maintenance requires the same percentage of activity in a large guild as a small one. If 10 players need to dedicate 20% of their game time to picking apples, then 500 players also need to dedicate 20% of their game time to picking apples.

If we posit that a small guild probably has a higher individual activity level than a large guild, then the food mechanic actually penalizes the small guild.

Exactly. Food is a boon to larger groups, in fact it discourages small guild play and encourages mass recruiting / Zerg play. More people picking apples, more people farming, more people going crafting and harvesting skill lines. Zerg guilds will have zero problem keeping themselves fed.

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Nonsense. Assuming similar individual activity levels, food maintenance requires the same percentage of activity in a large guild as a small one. If 10 players need to dedicate 20% of their game time to picking apples, then 500 players also need to dedicate 20% of their game time to picking apples.

 

If we posit that a small guild probably has a higher individual activity level than a large guild, then the food mechanic actually penalizes the small guild.

This assumes that food only ticks if your logged in and on.

 

I would like to see a mechanic where if your in CW, logged in or not, you have to pay some form of food maintenance, for a couple of reasons.

 

1. Players are already avoiding the hunger by waiting to log in while team mates look for targets.  Zergs are already discovering ways around the hunger mechanics, it would be nice if that aspect was tightened up.

 

2. It will reduce the effectiveness and attraction of alts.  If you want to run 5 alts, but also have to feed 5 alts, logged in or not, suddenly it becomes a bit more problematic because you have to feed them anyway.  In winter those alts could in fact be the thing that starves you out sooner.

 

3. Lessens the advantage of NOT playing the game.  Just like the Zergs hiding in logout, in winter players may find it better to not even play the game, due to expected hunger expenses, letting them horde resources and only becoming active when actually needed.  I just plain don't like any mechanic were there is strategic advantage to not playing the game.  It feels a bit like a team running out the clock. I would rather the game end when it reaches that point, than drag on for the sake of dragging on.  

  

4. It adds incentives for people to keep active in the game.  If you know that when you log back in it will be to a starving archetype that will need to eat, and probably has taken a vessel durability hit in the process, logging in more regularly to make sure they are fed will keep people active.

 

So yea, 500 players being inactive should be more expensive proportionality speaking than 50 who are active.

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yeah not too keen on eating as a survival (Ark, Minecraft, Rust, etc) in lieu of eating as a buff

 

i wish it were eating as a buff (SWG, BDO, etc)

 

i mean we are immortal crows right? and we inhabit dead bodies right?, the lore is right there smacking you in the face as in NOT needing to eat for survival

 

use that lore

 

the "hunger" approaching and temperature clothing is a good enough survival mechanic

Edited by Xanne

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I know. I just think it's a mistake.

 

It is.

 

 

Exactly. Food is a boon to larger groups, in fact it discourages small guild play and encourages mass recruiting / Zerg play. More people picking apples, more people farming, more people going crafting and harvesting skill lines. Zerg guilds will have zero problem keeping themselves fed.

 

Correct. Lets not help zergs and since the hunger mechanic is already shallow and boring. Lets eliminate it.

 

 

yeah not too keen on eating as a survival (Ark, Minecraft, Rust, etc) in lieu of eating as a buff

 

i wish it were eating as a buff (SWG, BDO, etc)

 

I would prefer it as a buff, but I don't want it either way. Long term buffs are boring in my opinion. If there is an item that I can eat and become better for 10 minutes+ it now becomes a chore I have to do. The only buffs I like in games are short term buffs that are used during a tactical moment of a fight. Long term buffs are chores.

 

Is there a way we can just start a vote to see the percentage of testers that like hunger?

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Nonsense. Assuming similar individual activity levels, food maintenance requires the same percentage of activity in a large guild as a small one. If 10 players need to dedicate 20% of their game time to picking apples, then 500 players also need to dedicate 20% of their game time to picking apples.

 

If we posit that a small guild probably has a higher individual activity level than a large guild, then the food mechanic actually penalizes the small guild.

you asume that it takes a large guild the same time to get the food as a small guild but thats not the case.

 

There are only so many trees to cut down for appels. The more people in a guild the more trees you need to cut down so you need to spread out quit a bit. Spreading out requires time so they have to move further and further away from their carstle. while the small guild can stay relativ close to their castle for a mutch longer time making them more time efficient in terms of food gathering.

 

Dont forget that just because you have many members doesnt mean that they are willing to gather food. Most people will want to come to jump in and PVP but thats not how crowfall works. Zerg guilds where never good at forcing activitys on members. If they did then most members would leave and join another zerg guild.

 

Also the bigger the guild is, the harder it is to keep track of what everyone is doing. In Zerg guilds there is allways a good number of people who just feed of the others while doing nothing themself.

If a Large guild is organized enough to get rid of such members and organize the entire mass in a efficient way then they deserve to be a dominating force.

That being said i have yet to see any guild with more then 120 members that made that happen. Most Zerg guilds have some structure but fail to check all members for activity.

 

I will now asume that you cant Farm everywhere but only on limited parcels ( There is a farm parcel in the shop). Im not talking about appels but real farming.

That would give the food production a maximum output per day.

A small or medium guild will most likely get around with that.

Zerg guilds on the other hand will most likely go over the maximum food cap per day. Maybe they can go around that by spreading out and taking more farm pacels but spreading out makes them an easy target for small organized guilds.

 

 

Survival mechanics are great, this game will have so many interesting elements.  It might seem tedious for people who want a casual jump-in and fight experience but that's why this isn't a full on moba and is instead part mmorpg.

I rarely have the same opinion as viking but in this case he said it all.


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There are only so many trees to cut down for appels. The more people in a guild the more trees you need to cut down so you need to spread out quit a bit. Spreading out requires time so they have to move further and further away from their carstle. while the small guild can stay relativ close to their castle for a mutch longer time making them more time efficient in terms of food gathering.

Apples won't be the primary, or even secondary, source of food. They are a "hey, I'm out of food and need something quick" kind of thing. They won't be what guilds are stocking up on for the winter. There will be ways to obtain food in larger quantities. 

 

Hopefully, large scale food production will be dependent on fortifications and will be limited based on the size of the fortification. That would make it difficult for unorganized zergs. Organized zergs may need to build and defend multiple fortifications in order to produce enough food. There may also be a limit on storage based on fortification size. 

Edited by Arkade

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