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blizzkrut

Sub-Based Would Be A Negative

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oh yeah...cuz subs failed WoW so horribly...

 

:rolleyes:

WoW was released at a time when MMOs could be played with subs only. So naturally it used a sub-model, too. As WoW managed to create such a huge community by opening the genre to many new players and keep them invested those fans are ok to pay subs. But the WoW community also consists of those people who just look into other games for a short period of time and then return to WoW because there all of their friends are.

 

There were many factors that contributed to the success of WoW and to the fact why it is the only MMORPG for a more casual crowd that works with subs.

 

Also I doubt that there are many people out there who would be ok with paying subs for more than one game. If you pay for a sub you always feel the pressure to play as much as you can so that it pays off for you. If they have to pay for another sub then they cannot play the games as much as they want to and maybe get the feeling that the subscription fee doesn't pay off. So if you don't want to pay subs for two or more games, people tend to stick to the game they already invested most of their time into and in which they have "their" community - so they stick with WoW.

Edited by bumblebee

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i see what you did there...

 

in both your Posts in this Thread, you appear concerned about having hordes of "casuals"

 

you are in the wrong place, imo...


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let the Code build the World and it's Laws....let the Players build the rest...

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I wouldn't even say wildstars devs were bad. If you look at how the game looks and feels, they did a fantastic job with it. Looks great. Feels great to play. Brilliant effects and abilities. It was management that did them in. And the pvp was very lackluster and poorly balanced.

 

They just took the game down a wrong direction. It could have been so much more. But the game is not dead yet and I hope they fix the issues and keep on going. I'd really like to see wildstar succeed.

 

 

 

I agree, sorry I meant the dev's as in the people maintaining game balance and things of that nature. They made terrible decisions once the game was launched, the CREDD debacle and things like that destroying the entire economy, leaving classes completely unbalanced etc.

The dev's did not keep up.

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Dear ACE,

 

I'd much rather pay a box fee with no subscription (B2P) and purchase later DLC or expansions, but I'll still give your game a try if it's subscription-based.

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I remember when swtor went free to play. It felt like they did it out of spite more than anything. Angry and angsty their game was suffering so they lashed out on the fans in the form of a nickel and dime petty cash shop.

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If you make a AAA quality game that has enough content and is well polished and relatively bug/crash free it, can survive P2P. 

 

Prior to the WoW era they was very little competition for games and dev/publishers could get away with alot more than they can now.  Now a days, with all the competition you need a game that is well polished, stable, and without content holes.

F2P makes it money on its cash shop.  So as you can guess the majority of the development dollars post release go into the cash shop.  These F2P all suffer from new content issues.  P2P makes it money on subs for its content.  The majority of its money goes into adding more conent.

 

Botting in F2P will always be far worse than P2P because the accounts are free and disposable. Most the botting in P2P is probably done with stolen accounts or CC.  Alot of the stolen accounts in Archeage could have been prevented if they required you to reenter paypal info for new purchases or even flagged abnormal amount of purchases on same payment.  Devs can add several methods of account security but depends whether they choose to add it before or after there is problems.

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I'm fine with buy to play and a cosmetic-only item shop; Xpac purchases for giant updates.  Other than that, I'd like a subscription.  I don't like F2P because of the botting and ease of avoiding sanctions.


"Food for the crows..."    Nobuo Xa'el

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So GW2 wasn't good for you? Literally the latest best MMORPG that came out?

 

Literally what? Best what? I consider WoW even better than GW, but it is far behind from UO, DF, MO, SB, AO, DAoC which are all sub based

Edited by bassa

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I remember when swtor went free to play. It felt like they did it out of spite more than anything. Angry and angsty their game was suffering so they lashed out on the fans in the form of a nickel and dime petty cash shop.

 

I think everyone agrees that SWTOR implemented their free-to-play model extremely poorly.  There are more recent examples of unobtrusive cash shops (GW2, and I've heard that ESO's is alright too). 

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no, it wouldn't be a negative. quite on the contrary, actually. it's a good thing. keeps away bots, casual gamers, whiney "i want everything handed to me on a silver platter" kids and the sort of scum we don't want around here. so yes, please! subscription would be great.

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I mean I don't understand why I have to buy the game or pay a subscription.

 

I mean didn't these guys already make billions on Shadowbane McDonalds ads?


You are so incredibly helpful, CYT. I don't know how I ever managed to do anything before we met. I was just bumbling my way through life, all lost-like. Thank you. My blessing cup runneth over.

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Awwwww here we go.

 

It might be a good time go get under your desks and hug your knees because I doubt many of you are prepared for the level of whoop-ass that is about to be unleashed in this thread.

 

The reason that the vast majority of the games that started out Buy-To-Play/Subscription Based in the MMO sphere end up being Free-To-Play/Pay-To-Win is NOT because the Buy-To-Play/Subscription Based model is broken.

 

Let me explain, for the uninitiated, as I have had to explain on every MMO forum since the dawn of the WoW-Clones.

 

Lets talk about our friend Johnny. Johnny loves MMO games, he loves them so much he sometimes lets it affect his personal life, but generally he gets by and lives a balanced lifestyle. Johnny plays Themepark MMO A, he has friends who play with him, his characters are super progressed and even his wife plays with him - he plays tank, she plays healer. They are the perfect duo for their core raid group to rally around. Over time between content expansions Johnny gets a little bit bored of Themepark MMO A, and unsubs - he has progressed as far as he wants to and is really just waiting for the next content release to pick up the game again. He still jumps on teamspeak with his buddies and plays some other game with them. One day on teamspeak Johnnys friend SuperSheep420N0Sc0p3 says "Hey Johnny, theres this cool new MMO called Themepark B releasing next week, do you want to try it with me?". Johnny, being sceptical is reluctant at first but agrees to try Themepark MMO B with his friend.  So release time rolls around, Johnny, SuperSheep420N0Sc0pe and a few other people from their old game are having a blast running around in this new game. The classes feel really fresh and interesting, the artstyle is different and interesting. There are neat mechanics that bring a breath of fresh air into the gameplay. A month rolls by and Johnny and his band of Gamer Savages have finally hit maximum level, they took their time as they're not super hardcore players. After a while the progression slows down and they have to start raiding. So they learn these new raids and even get some sweet loot while doing it! Spirits are high all around. Then one day, the penny drops and Johnny and his friends realise that there isn't really all that much that is different about Themepark MMO B and Themepark MMO A.

 

Then BOOM, one by one, Johnny and his group of friends slowly start unsubbing choosing instead of this shiny new game to go back to their old haunt which is basically identical but they have a lot more of their time and personal relationships invested into. Its also a much more mature and balanced game anyway, with a large variety of content. I mean, why Play Themepark MMO B anyway? It didn't really change much from the formula but it was a nice break/distraction from Themepark A. Besides, the new expansion for Themepark MMO A is coming out in a couple months so they're gonna start getting familiar with the game again in preparation for the new content - apparently they are even adding pokemon styled pet battles with this new expansion. It sounds so cool!

 

Repeat this process for hundreds of thousands of people over the course of 6months to a year and what you have is a big spike in initial adoptment and a slow but contiuous depopulation and unsubscription. Server Mergers, Death knells on the forums.

 

The Moral of the Story?

 

In a game of MMOs, you either innovate or you die forgotten and broken chopped up to be resold piecemeal like a cow at a butchery.

 

You want a real longstanding game with a passionate community? Build a new world, with new ideas and new mechanics. Make the interaction about how the players actions influence each other. A 3 year developed MMO can NEVER reach the polish that a game which has been consistently updated over 10 years with new and fresh content.

 

The Moral of the Moral of the Story?

 

Buy-To-Play/Subscription works perfectly fine, as long as the experience you bring to the table is sufficiently different and engaging enough to get people to keep firing up the game and coming back for more.

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McDonalds ads upon death are the only way to go IMO.


You are so incredibly helpful, CYT. I don't know how I ever managed to do anything before we met. I was just bumbling my way through life, all lost-like. Thank you. My blessing cup runneth over.

SWrkfdj.jpg

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Personally, I rather buy the the game and then pay a monthly sub than see ads in my game-time.

 

Like that the devs can focus on maintaining/improving the game without having to prod me for money and ruin my immersion 

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Just thinking about it, B2P or F2P is the future of online game...

 

Disagree. This happens usually the lack of quality content, more disturbing, lack of high-quality long lasting end game content. Lot of companies thought, "well, lets release the game fast, and in 6 months we will add the endgame". Well, no you won't.

 

In a PvP focused game theoretically there is no end content -maybe if the Hunger wins, but I doubt it- we can overthrow the current kings as many times as we don't get bored by it, and the process of it never will be the same. Defeating Garros Hellscream, however, was interesting me for the first 3 times.


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MA topics for recruitment.

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