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ajilejay

Please cut down on time waste obligations

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Hello all,

 

So far in my time testing the game, the biggest obstacle for my enjoyment is the amount of time waste in the game. Between the gathering times, amount of resources required to build things, crafting management/sequences/failures. Losing everything when you die is acceptable, it adds something to the game though you lose the time you invested, but when it is on top of all the other things in the game that are not enjoyable and just suck up your time it makes everything else that much more mundane and frustrating. 

 

To be a little more specific I don't want to have to aim at the resource the entire duration that I am gathering it.

I don't want running to cancel my inventory screen.

I don't want to spend the majority of my first hours in a gathering animation.

I don't want to spend any time at all blind to everything around me because my inventory/craft screen is up.

 

I really hope that the amount of time waste items are reduced in the game. To me the fun parts are so brief and it feels like the majority of time I am spending on things I don't enjoy at all, gathering and navigating the crafting/inventory. It's like 22 minutes of commercials and 8 minutes of programming.

 

I do realize the game is in alpha and I post this because I want to improve the game because I like the game. My issue isn't with the unfinished state of the game but rather with the current system of resource acquisition, specifically things that break up the action in the gameplay and have little enjoyment value for the player.

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So far in my time testing the game, the biggest obstacle for my enjoyment is the amount of time waste in the game. Between the gathering times, amount of resources required to build things, crafting management/sequences/failures. Losing everything when you die is acceptable, it adds something to the game though you lose the time you invested, but when it is on top of all the other things in the game that are not enjoyable and just suck up your time it makes everything else that much more mundane and frustrating. 

 

To be a little more specific I don't want to have to aim at the resource the entire duration that I am gathering it.

I don't want running to cancel my inventory screen.

I don't want to spend the majority of my first hours in a gathering animation.

I don't want to spend any time at all blind to everything around me because my inventory/craft screen is up.

 

I feel like the forum is going to attack you soon with the typical "this is a test". I think the feedback is good and helps the developers know what is important to the players.

 

I disagree with your first point. You should have to aim at the resource, this allows other players to sneak up on you. You shouldn't be able to spin in circles while harvesting. That being said, you should press F once and not have to hold it.

 

Second point, I agree.

 

Third point, semi agree. Since everything is crafted out of harvested goods in this game, you should expect to have to do some level of harvesting. To be PVP ready with most classes though all you do is craft a basic weapon and go, this takes maybe 5-15 minutes. Harvesting/crafting is a huge element of this game and if you absolutely hate it you need to either look for a guild that will allow you to be just a combatant or maybe CF isn't for you. Hope it isn't the latter as I want a large population for this game.

 

Fourth point, You are 100% correct. This is a design flaw and one that is so big it scares me. Why the hell would you force someone to be fully blinded in a full loot PVP game to craft something for 2 minutes. I think ACE is aware of how upset people are about this and I would expect it to change.

 

Thanks for the feedback. Don't let the "this is a test" people get to you.

Edited by mastakane

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no u

 

Seriously, this is a problem that it is within your power to solve. The answer is division of labor. In order to spend your game time doing the things that you like doing, you need to form partnerships with other players who enjoy doing the things you don't.


Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

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I think your UI comments are on target, but that really isn't "time waste" as opposed to a rough UI initial pass which will be replaced relatively soon ("This is a test" :P ).

 

As for the rest, gathering as a time sink is critical to the end game.  One method of advancing your own position will be bleeding your opponent dry of resources until they are naked and starving.  If gathering is inconsequential, then resource-based warfare becomes equally inconsequential.  No thanks.


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Being blind when crafting is unrealistic and frustrating. I know a legend about an engineer who was so focused on his work that he didn't spot hostile mercenaries coming in, but most of people would see them. Unfortunately, we can't in the current version of Crowfall and we have to wait till hearing sounds of being attacked.

 

Making the screen fully transparent would solve this problem and it can be ok from the perception of design if it is properly-done.


Mercenary guild is recruiting. Send me a message if you are interested.

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no u

 

Seriously, this is a problem that it is within your power to solve. The answer is division of labor. In order to spend your game time doing the things that you like doing, you need to form partnerships with other players who enjoy doing the things you don't.

 

I see what you guys are saying.However, My experience was that I spent about 15 minutes on my basic crafting stuff, then several more minutes to get advanced stuff (uninterrupted gathering). Then a ludicrous amount of hours mining silver with silver tools to get weapons (uninterrupted gathering and memorized spawn patterns). If my interest is to make the game better then I cannot accept just have someone else do it, as a suggestion.

 

The amount of time that it takes just to go through the resource animations combined with the amount of resources needed on top of the amount of time navigating the craft/inventory ui and then have a failure option in crafting, all while being at risk of death and losing everything is all a recipe for a frustrating experience. You cut down a lot on the time required gathering animation time and clean up the UI without losing anything in terms of gameplay.

 

Resource acquisition does not need to be this excruciating, it just requires a little innovation and creativity to make it a fun part of the game rather than an obligated chore.

Edited by ajilejay

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I think your UI comments are on target, but that really isn't "time waste" as opposed to a rough UI initial pass which will be replaced relatively soon ("This is a test" :P ).

 

As for the rest, gathering as a time sink is critical to the end game.  One method of advancing your own position will be bleeding your opponent dry of resources until they are naked and starving.  If gathering is inconsequential, then resource-based warfare becomes equally inconsequential.  No thanks.

The fallacy is within your if,then statement. Mostly in the assumption that you cannot adjust the gathering system without making gathering inconsequential. Gathering could be changed in a plethora of ways to make it more enjoyable without rendering it inconsequential.

 

For example they could diversify where metal comes from and have a golem in addition to mines. I'm not suggesting they do this, just merely proving my point that other things could be done to improve the experience without breaking the game.

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I post this because I want to improve the game because I like the game.

 

A commendable effort.

 

Alas, what is time? And what do we want to spent our time with? It depends on many things, not at least on our unfulfilled inner needs. Time doesn't care if we waste it. It runs and runs and runs. Thinking 'It's your own fault, if you waste me - for I surely don't care'. *cough*

 

Yeah, whatever. Sorry, i sometimes have these moments... xD

 

Point is, if you don't like it, don't do it. Crowfall provides enough space to focus on those things you like. You don't like to harvest? Then craft or fight or do something else that enables you to trade in from others what you need but don't want to do yourself. And all the way round. Specialization and cooperation will be a big point in this game. You will have to specialize, you will have to cooperate ... or it will be a lot harder. If you want to go the hard way, OK. But that's your decision.

 

Right now we can't see a lot of this stuff. But later in game, if you want to specialize on fighting for example, you just won't be able to harvest, because you don't have the skills. You will need people who harvest and people who craft. And those people won't be able to kill easily. And thats how the circle closes. Specialization, cooperation and mutual benefit.

 

 

Last, not least, you did talk a lot (basically exclusively) about thing you don't want. How about talking about what you DO want? Just a thought. ;)

 

 

Anyway, welcome to the forums and thanks for your feedback. I hope there will be more in the future. :)


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I feel like the forum is going to attack you soon with the typical "this is a test". I think the feedback is good and helps the developers know what is important to the players.

 

I disagree with your first point. You should have to aim at the resource, this allows other players to sneak up on you. You shouldn't be able to spin in circles while harvesting. That being said, you should press F once and not have to hold it.

 

Second point, I agree.

 

Third point, semi agree. Since everything is crafted out of harvested goods in this game, you should expect to have to do some level of harvesting. To be PVP ready with most classes though all you do is craft a basic weapon and go, this takes maybe 5-15 minutes. Harvesting/crafting is a huge element of this game and if you absolutely hate it you need to either look for a guild that will allow you to be just a combatant or maybe CF isn't for you. Hope it isn't the latter as I want a large population for this game.

 

Fourth point, You are 100% correct. This is a design flaw and one that is so big it scares me. Why the hell would you force someone to be fully blinded in a full loot PVP game to craft something for 2 minutes. I think ACE is aware of how upset people are about this and I would expect it to change.

 

Thanks for the feedback. Don't let the "this is a test" people get to you.

1st, You misinterupted what I said, I don't think you should be able to spin around. You just shouldn't have to hold your crosshairs over the mine while holding down the mine button.

 

2. Thanks.

 

3. There are more than 2 alternatives, I could simply suggest they make gathering more enjoyable.

 

4. I agree, well said.

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A commendable effort.

 

Alas, what is time? And what do we want to spent our time with? It depends on many things, not at least on our unfulfilled inner needs. Time doesn't care if we waste it. It runs and runs and runs. Thinking 'It's your own fault, if you waste me - for I surely don't care'. *cough*

 

Yeah, whatever. Sorry, i sometimes have these moments... xD

 

Point is, if you don't like it, don't do it. Crowfall provides enough space to focus on those things you like. You don't like to harvest? Then craft or fight or do something else that enables you to trade in from others what you need but don't want to do yourself. And all the way round. Specialization and cooperation will be a big point in this game. You will have to specialize, you will have to cooperate ... or it will be a lot harder. If you want to go the hard way, OK. But that's your decision.

 

Right now we can't see a lot of this stuff. But later in game, if you want to specialize on fighting for example, you just won't be able to harvest, because you don't have the skills. You will need people who harvest and people who craft. And those people won't be able to kill easily. And thats how the circle closes. Specialization, cooperation and mutual benefit.

 

 

Last, not least, you did talk a lot (basically exclusively) about thing you don't want. How about talking about what you DO want? Just a thought. ;)

 

 

Anyway, welcome to the forums and thanks for your feedback. I hope there will be more in the future. :)

I post about what I don't want, because

1. For me, the combat isn't stable enough on my computer for me to be able to get into it at the moment

2 I don't want you to change the things I like about this game,

3 I spend the vast majority of my testing time mining ore.

 

For me, there are a ton of really brilliant concepts that are promising and appealing to me. That is what I like about this game. I am just concerned with the amount of emphasis on gathering that it should be equally outside the box, innovative, and most importantly, enjoyable to the player.

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Hello all,

 

So far in my time testing the game, the biggest obstacle for my enjoyment is the amount of time waste in the game. Between the gathering times, amount of resources required to build things, crafting management/sequences/failures. Losing everything when you die is acceptable, it adds something to the game though you lose the time you invested, but when it is on top of all the other things in the game that are not enjoyable and just suck up your time it makes everything else that much more mundane and frustrating. 

 

To be a little more specific I don't want to have to aim at the resource the entire duration that I am gathering it.

I don't want running to cancel my inventory screen.

I don't want to spend the majority of my first hours in a gathering animation.

I don't want to spend any time at all blind to everything around me because my inventory/craft screen is up.

 

I really hope that the amount of time waste items are reduced in the game. To me the fun parts are so brief and it feels like the majority of time I am spending on things I don't enjoy at all, gathering and navigating the crafting/inventory. It's like 22 minutes of commercials and 8 minutes of programming.

 

I do realize the game is in alpha and I post this because I want to improve the game because I like the game. My issue isn't with the unfinished state of the game but rather with the current system of resource acquisition, specifically things that break up the action in the gameplay and have little enjoyment value for the player.

 

 

One, next patch with a bit of planning you will be able to send resources to sanctuary through a "spirit bank". This will go a very long way to reduce the time suck.

 

Two, running with inventory open.  Yea, that would be ideal.  I would put in a suggestion right now, they are in the middle of a inventory re-write and it may be the right time to try this.

 

Three, after the test, find harvesters who do this for a living.  Right now that's not in place, but moving forward it will be.   But yes, the time sink is egregious, not sure how one would fix this, maybe have nodes produce more for each person hitting it. Changes could have to be part of the POI mechanics, like more people close to the node = faster respawn or something.

 

Four, You can hit "J" while your crafting timer is rolling down, and run/look around.  Also with the sanctuary (No PvP) and spirit bank, this will be less of the problem.

 

Once you have your first set of gear, you will be able to run around for quite a while before death/durability hits force you to replace it.

 

But yea, they should bump the resource node output at base line.  The pots are really skewing just how much of a time sink hammering on nodes are.

 

 

Welcome to Crowfall Pre-Alpha Build 3.9!

Enjoy the holidays!

If you disconnect from chat, press Alt-Z twice as a temporary work around to reconnect to the chat servers.

General

  • Added ping time and PvE/PvP setting to the campaign selection button.
  • Initial tech implemented for Import and Export via Spirit Bank.(access via the Spirit Bank button in the inventory)
    • For now this bank can be accessed from anywhere.
    • Items have a 2 minute time frame where they are in a locked state when transferred between the account level and campaign character.
    • Ensure crafted items do not lose stats on transfer between worlds please!
    • You are unable to manipulate or rearrange items placed in Spirit Bank.

Campaigns:

  • Sorrow - US East server, Map size increased by 50% (our largest map to date)
  • Sanctuary - Eternal Kingdom, Massively increased amount of Slag nodes.

 

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

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This is a design flaw and one that is so big it scares me. Why the hell would you force someone to be fully blinded in a full loot PVP game to craft something for 2 minutes. I think ACE is aware of how upset people are about this and I would expect it to change.

 

Because that incents a crafter+guard symbiosis dynamic as opposed to a self-sufficient hermit playstyle.


Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

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Fourth point, You are 100% correct. This is a design flaw and one that is so big it scares me. Why the hell would you force someone to be fully blinded in a full loot PVP game to craft something for 2 minutes. I think ACE is aware of how upset people are about this and I would expect it to change.

 

 

In the final game, crafting will not be taking place in the field, it will be at crafting work stations, at your base, behind walls, behind KOS set guard thralls.

 

So being blinded at that point is not going to be as big an issue.

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The amount of time that it takes just to go through the resource animations combined with the amount of resources needed on top of the amount of time navigating the craft/inventory ui and then have a failure option in crafting, all while being at risk of death and losing everything is all a recipe for a frustrating experience. You cut down a lot on the time required gathering animation time and clean up the UI without losing anything in terms of gameplay.

 

Yes the game will be frustrating at times.  Failing crafts and losing your stuff/vessel are inherent results of risk/reward gameplay though.  The only part of your statement that I agree with (bolded above) is that the potentially frustrating game content should not be gated behind a clunky UI.

 

 

The fallacy is within your if,then statement. Mostly in the assumption that you cannot adjust the gathering system without making gathering inconsequential. Gathering could be changed in a plethora of ways to make it more enjoyable without rendering it inconsequential.

 

For example they could diversify where metal comes from and have a golem in addition to mines. I'm not suggesting they do this, just merely proving my point that other things could be done to improve the experience without breaking the game.

 

I have no issues with diversifying where metal comes from.  Or making a leather pinata mother lode.  Or any other number of things to add content to the game.

 

But that is not your original point.  Your original point is to, and I quote, "Please cut down on time waste obligations."

 

Harvesting has to be a time sink.  Whether you are killing boars, whacking trees, running routes for silver nodes, or searching for that golem in your example above, resource gathering needs to take time so that opponents have the opportunity to interrupt that activity and deny you those resources.  It is a required content loop in a total war game such as this one.  Therefore, by design, the activity in question is both a time sink (as opposed to a waste) and an obligation.

Edited by ren

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Yes the game will be frustrating at times.  Failing crafts and losing your stuff/vessel are inherent results of risk/reward gameplay though.  The only part of your statement that I agree with (bolded above) is that the potentially frustrating game content should not be gated behind a clunky UI.

 

 

 

I have no issues with diversifying where metal comes from.  Or making a leather pinata mother lode.  Or any other number of things to add content to the game.

 

But that is not your original point.  Your original point is to, and I quote, "Please cut down on time waste obligations."

 

Harvesting has to be a time sink.  Whether you are killing boars, whacking trees, running routes for silver nodes, or searching for that golem in your example above, resource gathering needs to take time so that opponents have the opportunity to interrupt that activity and deny you those resources.  It is a required content loop in a total war game such as this one.  Therefore, by design, the activity in question is both a time sink (as opposed to a waste) and an obligation.

 Your interpretation is too literal, no one is suggesting that no time be spent on resource acquisition.

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In the final game, crafting will not be taking place in the field, it will be at crafting work stations, at your base, behind walls, behind KOS set guard thralls.

 

So being blinded at that point is not going to be as big an issue.

 

But you will still be crafting some things out in the field, replacement tools, basic gear, etc... You should not be 100% blinded while crafting, even if you are at a work station.

 

Give opacity to the crafting menu and I think most who are upset with this will be appeased. Redesign crafting UI to not take up the entire screen and it will be even better.

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But you will still be crafting some things out in the field, replacement tools, basic gear, etc... You should not be 100% blinded while crafting, even if you are at a work station.

 

Give opacity to the crafting menu and I think most who are upset with this will be appeased. Redesign crafting UI to not take up the entire screen and it will be even better.

I agree.  Said it wasn't going to be "as big an issue", not that it wasn't an issue.

 

If you have been doing it for any time, it takes literally < 20 seconds to drive a single replacement tool in the existing windows.  If your going out for a protracted period of time, you can always build and carry a spare.

 

I seriously doubt that anyone with stuff in base is going to need "basic" gear in the field.  I suspect re-spawn will drop you off in base close to your storage, so no need to expose yourself and use poor gear before going out into the world, on the 1/10 times you are killed and it results in total gear breakage.

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

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