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makkon

2 skills training at the same time in general trees

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Yes, 1 is pretty low.

There was alot of theory and maths about how long it will be to get even 2/3 of general trees progression

 

Also, there was alot of ideas how many twink accounts you need to get good start for serious playing:

1 account to craft something, 1 for pvp (combat tree) and 1 for gathering/harvesting/exploration.

On my side, I think at first 3 month, serious players need about 4 accounts.

 

Next, combat trees are useless. At least first 50% of em. 2% crit chance with possible future deminishing returns are zero compared, for example, to better chance on drop rare ores.

 

So, my suggestion is

1) {would be nice} Give us 2 skills training at the same time in general trees

Nwm, you can put it even for VIP accounts, so it will be more motivating ppl. P2W? Not sure, you can check out any korean project

2) {hight prioryty} Dramatically increase gaining speed for testing phase. At least for alpha stages! So we can test most of this stuff before it will be abused in OBT

yes, there are bunch broken of skills

3) {optionally} Give us possibility to reset trained skills so it will be converted to time points.

So we can respec coz 3 month of training wrong tree will hit players hard.

You can also make it for money at OBT and  make huge cooldown on this so ppl wont abuse it


crowfall pvp makkonMyrmidon statement: Out of Fury

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It is good to have some level of independence. Hopefully, most of the skill trees will be reworked in general. Where is a customization if I have to train two or three skills to get to another one if all have to train these three?


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I really disagree, and will continue to disagree, with being able to train 2 universal skills. It will be one of, in my opinion, the worst changes ACE could do the the skill trees. Not only does it take away specialization, if it's VIP benefit it will pigeon hole players into feeling like they need to pay money to stay relevant which is terrible. If you're concerned about multiple accounts, I wouldn't be...yah you can get like 5 accounts if you want to be totally self-sufficient, but the point of the game is not to be self-sufficient. And the people in my guild w/ multiple accounts have em to fill in the spaces we don't have covered in crafting/harvesting atm. There really isn't much you can do to stop multiple accounts, and training more than 1 universal is not the way to go about it. I agree combat trees are pretty garbage atm, but even as they stand i've theorycrafted more than a few, what i'm hoping are, really strong builds when you take AT skills into mind as well...you have a surprising amount of options.

 

Let's wait to see what the skill trees look like after a few iterations, it's waaaay to early to be asking for stuff like this imo. Takes away too much from the game, and really takes away from the dependence on interplay between people specializing and building relationships when they start toeing that line of self-sufficiency. Just my thoughts, but I don't think training 2 skills is worth it.

 

As a side note: I don't know why people use the "takes soo long to get through just a few of the trees" when the point of the passive system is to take a long time specializing in those trees. If it really takes waaay too long, they can change numbers. But keeping 1 specialization per account is the way to do it.

Edited by Jjohnsin

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1 account to craft something, 1 for pvp (combat tree) and 1 for gathering/harvesting/exploration.

On my side, I think at first 3 month, serious players need about 4 accounts.

 

i  agree,

alt accounts seem to give a huge advantage in crowfall which makes the game look like it's p2w. (on top of vip and shop...)


 

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I really disagree, and will continue to disagree, with being able to train 2 universal skills. It will be one of, in my opinion, the worst changes ACE could do the the skill trees. Not only does it take away specialization, if it's VIP benefit it will pigeon hole players into feeling like they need to pay money to stay relevant which is terrible. If you're concerned about multiple accounts, I wouldn't be...

It's not a concern. It's reality.

 

The fears you profess for reasonable VIP value are magnified many fold already by simply buying multiple accounts. I've bought 6 now. One of my guildmates is buying 25.

 

They so, so, so should have just gone with a reasonable subscription model across the board.

i  agree,

alt accounts seem to give a huge advantage in crowfall which makes the game look like it's p2w. (on top of vip and shop...)

 

Correctemundo.

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1

i disagree as 2 general trees dont change anything.

 

Poeple who focus on combat would get 1 general combat and 2 exploration combat stats ( like max hp, stamina etc).

It doesnt change that combat focused people will allways be stat wise better then harvesters and crafters and that is a good thing.

 

Alt accounts have the problem of time. You can still only spend limited time per day in the game. If you split that time on mutliple accounts your efficients on all accounts will go down.

Its mutch more efficient to have multiple player split the tasks in a guild.

 

2

not needed. Devs allready said that we should not get hung up on numbers. It may take 3 days now for a tier one skill.

In the next test it may take only 1 day or 5 days. The devs can and will change it when they feel like it.

 

3

Im for it under conditions

If you have the ability to reset then there is no consequence for putting points into a certain direction.

However i would accept 1 skill point respec per year. For example every christmas all players get a skill point reset to go into a different direction.

It could also be a payed store item.

Limited to 1 per account at any given time in adition to only 1 sold per year.


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My constructive feedback about these suggestions:

 

image.png?w=480&c=1

 

Truth is, none of these suggestions would solve anything. I've seen it take place in another game, and things got worse instead.

 

1) Say goodbye to specialization. No more need for groups or guilds if everyone can do everything without drawbacks.

2) Well, we still have 1 year of testing ahead of us. I am quite sure this is the time needed for anyone to rush through some ultimate skills. Plus, I am quite sure it will be reworked anyway, as the skill training is among the most important friction points for the tester community.

3) No. Seriously, No. To have the kid who can pay the opportunity to respec and get the last FOTM? Which ends up with everyone playing the same builds and archetypes? I saw on another game, this is the worst thing ever. I really mean it.

Edited by Eaden

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I also disagree and am on record as such.   Multiple accounts will not further any single progression any faster, that is an illusion.   As stated above it is simply convenience and an ability to switch up tasks and meet needs easier with fewer players working together or as a self sufficient player but it will not get you any stronger or even richer unless you share those accounts which is against the elo and banable.  I would agree to a skill recovery ability of say 10 or 20 ticks a month that can be reapplied at 1 to 1 on same tier, 2 to 1 on tier above, etc but that would be difficult to code because the tick/skill gain is parabolic.  I think we will see a time decrease in skill ticks and deeper reworked trees but I do get why several skills hit the same stat on several different spots on the trees, that is the method of shallow gain.  I do think some branches and nodes need to allow the prereq to be met by single lead in and others needing all lower nodes to unlock... the easier pass through for simple stats and the higher prereqs to get to the must have skills or any that may unlock use of items or even powers.

Edited by Frykka

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It is good to have some level of independence. Hopefully, most of the skill trees will be reworked in general. Where is a customization if I have to train two or three skills to get to another one if all have to train these three?

if and when 1 skill trainded to 100 will be reworked to better and much more appreciable bonus together with not linear system when for open 1 tree or next skill you not needed to train 50% of useless tree or "4 exact those" skills to 100% it will be ok

 

current system is pretty boring.

 

also they are talking about some active trainings but ninja stop talking about it.

 

character developing/builds is core or any mmorpg


crowfall pvp makkonMyrmidon statement: Out of Fury

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I also disagree and am on record as such.   Multiple accounts will not further any single progression any faster, that is an illusion.   As stated above it is simply convenience and an ability to switch up tasks and meet needs easier with fewer players working together or as a self sufficient player but it will not get you any stronger or even richer unless you share those accounts which is against the elo and banable.  I would agree to a skill recovery ability of say 10 or 20 ticks a month that can be reapplied at 1 to 1 on same tier, 2 to 1 on tier above, etc but that would be difficult to code because the tick/skill gain is parabolic.  I think we will see a time decrease in skill ticks and deeper reworked trees but I do get why several skills hit the same stat on several different spots on the trees, that is the method of shallow gain.  I do think some branches and nodes need to allow the prereq to be met by single lead in and others needing all lower nodes to unlock... the easier pass through for simple stats and the higher prereqs to get to the must have skills or any that may unlock use of items or even powers.

you will not see any specialisations in 1 year after release in any cases.

check out each tree more carefully.

there will be no crafters/gatherers/pvp specs and such very long time after release. there will be hundreds twink accounts.

and at the end (if bug wont be fixed or soft launch will be failed) playerbase will decrease dramatically. I saw too much pvp games like this.

and such useless spells and trees are coming and coming.

 

after all of this, read some crafting/gathering/exploration's tree skills and think about what you will need first? +2% crit chance/+50hp or available crafting reciepts, possibility to use something like vessels better quality and such?

I do not userstand how deminishing returns will affect crafting trees. if will affect combat trees for sure

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Sdtkn2S1cU

 

OR developers CAN split some general trees to some 2 independed sections. gathering+crafting and utility(vessels, explorations, etc)+combat

this mean I do not want to w8 years to take at least 20% I want to take.

AND I HATE TWINKS. all twink games sucks, was and will be

Edited by makkon

crowfall pvp makkonMyrmidon statement: Out of Fury

Discord makkon#8550

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I also disagree and am on record as such.   Multiple accounts will not further any single progression any faster, that is an illusion.   As stated above it is simply convenience and an ability to switch up tasks and meet needs easier with fewer players working together or as a self sufficient player but it will not get you any stronger or even richer unless you share those accounts which is against the elo and banable. 

 

Sharing accounts is "bannable?" You sure?

 

Also, it's the VIP that's supposed to be "convenience," not multiple accounts. You're right that currently it's backwards, however.

 

Not sure what you mean bu this:

 

 

 

Multiple accounts will not further any single progression any faster, that is an illusion. 

 

It doesn't make sense. VIP that mattered wouldn't "further any single progression" faster either. For less money, ignoring VIP, I can train 3-5 more crafting or harvesting lines at the same time compared to VIP. That's reality brother. That's why I bought 6 accounts. That's why Destrin has 7 accounts/ That's why Tark is buying 25 accounts.

Edited by coolwaters

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It doesn't make sense. VIP that mattered wouldn't "further any single progression" faster either. For less money, ignoring VIP, I can train 3-5 more crafting or harvesting lines at the same time compared to VIP. That's reality brother. That's why I bought 6 accounts. That's why Destrin has 7 accounts/ That's why Tark is buying 25 accounts.

exactly that I am talking about

1-th twink account - armor heavy crafting helmets

2-th twink account - armor heavy crafting panths

3-th twink account - gatherer on x1 map for ore

4-th twkin account - gatheree on x2 map for tree

....

iteration to N-th

those twinks will kill map fighting. coz its dead Souls

 

and this will be first X month/years until ur main account will get some stable pack of skills.

 

anyway there will be account sharing for sure -> alot of petitions/bans/griefings/tears

 

 

ps. if comunity call this game skill based and no buy to win and to get new account you should pay some money - this is right exactly buy to win game coz you need alot of twinks for general trees at start

 

 

so, to be clear, with current skill mechanic, this is P2Win game. nothing else.

no need to dissemble ACE, just make VIP $ train more and faster. It will not differ current system

Edited by makkon

crowfall pvp makkonMyrmidon statement: Out of Fury

Discord makkon#8550

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That's why I bought 6 accounts. That's why Destrin has 7 accounts/ That's why Tark is buying 25 accounts.

 

stuff like this will label this game as p2w in most gaming forums...

 

and like i asked in a similar thread: what are you even supposed to do when you run out of gear with your combat skilled char? harvesting probably won't be worth it without the skills... 

 

The solution for most people will be to run a crafter/harvester alt to buy gear for their combat main.


 

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stuff like this will label this game as p2w in most gaming forums...

 

and like i asked in a similar thread: what are you even supposed to do when you run out of gear with your combat skilled char? harvesting probably won't be worth it without the skills... 

 

The solution for most people will be to run a crafter/harvester alt to buy gear for their combat main.

The game is based around guild/group play...I think a majority of players will turn to their guild or group they play with to get more gear.

 

If you want to spend the money for 6-7-25 accounts to be super self-efficient then I say go for, but being able to train 2 universal skill will just cut that down to 3-4-12 accounts...It doesn't do anything except reduce the amount of accounts you "need" and reduces specialization. The point of the passive trees is to over time specialize into ONE thing. Like I said, if you want to do more then sure go ahead and get multiple accounts but, in my opinion, your suggestion ruins diversity for the majority of players who can't afford or won't buy multiple accounts. Not only that, but having multiple accounts isn't even that much more efficient than just finding your own network of other players who can do what you don't. Idk...Just my thoughts. Training multiple universals does nothing to help the game, just waters it down for the majority of the player base. but I'm sure ACE will end up doing it because people complain about it

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The game is based around guild/group play...I think a majority of players will turn to their guild or group they play with to get more gear.

 

as if this works in big guilds

I'm playing mmos since 20 years and usually, the players are mostly for themselves responsible for their own gear.

 

and also yeah, the game should support solo and small group players as well - forcing alt accounts upon them is just bad game design.

 

 

The point of the passive trees is to over time specialize into ONE thing. 

 

the thing is that combat is just not a profession like it is in Eve online... most probably won't be able to earn ingame money with it.

Edited by drunk

 

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The game is based around guild/group play...I think a majority of players will turn to their guild or group they play with to get more gear.

 

atm game is based around twinks not around guilds or build/specialisations

if ppl can't understand it I dunno how to explain


crowfall pvp makkonMyrmidon statement: Out of Fury

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The game is based around guild/group play...I think a majority of players will turn to their guild or group they play with to get more gear.

 

If you want to spend the money for 6-7-25 accounts to be super self-efficient then I say go for, but being able to train 2 universal skill will just cut that down to 3-4-12 accounts...It doesn't do anything except reduce the amount of accounts you "need" and reduces specialization. The point of the passive trees is to over time specialize into ONE thing. Like I said, if you want to do more then sure go ahead and get multiple accounts but, in my opinion, your suggestion ruins diversity for the majority of players who can't afford or won't buy multiple accounts. Not only that, but having multiple accounts isn't even that much more efficient than just finding your own network of other players who can do what you don't. Idk...Just my thoughts. Training multiple universals does nothing to help the game, just waters it down for the majority of the player base. but I'm sure ACE will end up doing it because people complain about it

In PvP mmo games people have to wear different hats. Yes the pvpers will be out trying to kill the crafter gatherers in order supplement their lack of gathering skills. But, Artscraft say to guard the Gatherer. That would require a sizeable armed force to guard the gatherer. They all have to be geared. I am sorry to say but 90% of the people that play this game will be playing for siege and pvp. . You will burn out some gather/crafters pretty fast . As with a pvper will need to help gather mats the crafter will need to gather mats. By not allowing a crafter to gather his own mats it will cause them not to want to play the game OR  buy another account.  its much easier to give two and two for skill gain it will not ruin diversity a pvper may be able to gather some and still train combat. a crafter will be able to gather their own mats but not able to pvp as well. It just makes since.

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It does work in big guilds is the thing...I've ran 40 man raiding guilds in vanilla WoW, PvE and PvP centric guilds in gw2, and been in a leadership position for a guild in ESO. If your guild can't handle the logistics to get everyone the gear they need, it's a bad guild...Not the games problem.

 

Sure the game should include solo and small group play, but the whole design of the game is group play. It's really really not hard for a solo player to find like 4 people and have a small network to get what they need...I mean c'mon. I agree combat needs a rework, but that is a seperate discussion from training 2 universals.

 

ATM the game isn't even a game. And it's not at all based around alt accounts man...The gains we have from a crafting specialized account ATM are so small it's not even worth a second account at the moment. I can log-in, farm boars and copper for an hour or two and make myself perfectly fine and viable gear.

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