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So I already talked about this somewhere else and reading the Templars new abilities kind of upsets me. I have not played the templar yet so I haven't seen this in action, but I don't like the direction we are going with heals.

 

So CF claimed to be a game with no firehose healing. Out of 9 classes, 1/3rd of them can heal. This is already too many for me.

 

What really upsets me is the fact that this is another skillless heal. The Templar just got two heals that they don't have to aim. Why are we making it so easy to heal. One of the draws of this game was that it wasn't a tab target game. I didn't realize tab targeting would be replaced by giant AOEs that take less skill than a tab target does.

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I thought the exact same thing soon as i read his powers...Looks like were heading toward a Carebear game with "Hardcore" aspects. All of these click and not think abilities are killing it. The way combat is heading this game wont have a long life span. its going to get stale and boring with a quickness.


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I feel like the amount of heals is properly portioned to the amount of risk you incur in-game. Let's not forget that when you die, you could potentially lose EVERYTHING. Death comes fast in CF, faster than even in games like DFO.

 

And let's not kid ourselves, DFO had dumbed down abilities too. You didn't exactly need to be a rocket scientist to be a primalist or use conversion spells.

 

We also don't know what the scaling is on the heals or what the radius is. It's way too early to start freaking out about this stuff.

Edited by helix

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I feel like the amount of heals is properly portioned to the amount of risk you incur in-game. Let's not forget that when you die, you could potentially lose EVERYTHING. Death comes fast in CF, faster than even in games like DFO.

 

And let's not kid ourselves, DFO had dumbed down abilities too. You didn't exactly need to be a rocket scientist to be a primalist or use conversion spells.

 

We also don't know what the scaling is on the heals or what the radius is. It's way too early to start freaking out about this stuff.

 

You could get .5d in DF by someone with a good stickyback. And that was full loot, this game isnt even full loot right now. You dont even drop equipped items. Every heal the Primalist had was actually aimed... Even spirit bond you had to aim it. Brainlessly clicking a button to heal your whole group is pretty lame.


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Makkon is out here hitting mothercustards for 50k and y'all stay crying about healing... :rolleyes:

I wonder how many tears will flow when they nerf legios and people start falling over from 10k+ crits

Edited by helix

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I would like to see more Tera style heals - actually aimed; small AoEs that are melee range and put you in danger to heal; aimed AoEs that aim at one person and heal a radius around them; and of course orbs. That stuff is actually fun to play as a healer. Balance I'm not worried about yet. But less of what we have now. And please no Wildstar style it sucked and we've talked about that already.

Edited by Leiloni

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All the classes could have some kind of healing and it could still have nothing to do with "fire hose" healing

Most archetypes have some type of healing. Druid and Lego obviously have heals. Templar will have heals. Knight and Champion both have passives that heal. Rangers have lifesteal. Myrmidons have berserk. The Confessor and Duelist are the only ones without any healing.

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I thought the exact same thing soon as i read his powers...Looks like were heading toward a Carebear game with "Hardcore" aspects. All of these click and not think abilities are killing it. The way combat is heading this game wont have a long life span.

 

i rather have carebear game then another hardcore twtich skill MMO i like which gets on life support 6 months after release...

 

it's sad but its the reality.


 

Crowfall Wiki

 

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Most archetypes have some type of healing. Druid and Lego obviously have heals. Templar will have heals. Knight and Champion both have passives that heal. Rangers have lifesteal. Myrmidons have berserk. The Confessor and Duelist are the only ones without any healing.

 

Duelest has that regen thing on 4 that pumps regen to a small (very small) HoT effect.

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Don't worry, once we have Disciplines, everyone will have even more heals!

 

While they presented it well initially, doesn't seem they are following their own plan, at least not the current build which is all we have to go on.

 

"super powerful healing" "firehose healing" "most attacks and heals require aim" must not mean what some of us believe.

 

From the FAQ:

 

Like most attacks in Crowfall, healing requires the caster to aim and properly land heals. There are a variety of different methods of healing targeting such as reticle target, projectiles, ground targeting, trap style and reactive.

Edited by APE

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Don't worry, once we have Disciplines, everyone will have even more heals!

 

While they presented it well initially, doesn't seem they are following their own plan, at least not the current build which is all we have to go on.

 

"super powerful healing" "firehose healing" "most attacks and heals require aim" must not mean what some of us believe.

 

From the FAQ:

 

Like most attacks in Crowfall, healing requires the caster to aim and properly land heals. There are a variety of different methods of healing targeting such as reticle target, projectiles, ground targeting, trap style and reactive.

 

Here's my question to people who want less powerful healing - how exactly do you guys envision this working? Instead of talking about what's bad that needs to be changed, I'm curious to know what the desired goal is. From what I can tell they seem to be aiming to make TTK a bit longer which is probably better when the penalty for death is potentially very high. The ways I've seen that done often in other games is high damage, high healing, and high defense. So everyone feels like they're doing big fun things during the course of a fight even though it takes longer.

 

But here, and if healing is brought down as well, it often seems that the developers desired idea (and players) is to make both damage and healing lower so there aren't these big spikes, but you're slowly witting people down who will never fully recover (this bit makes my healer side twitch lol) and it's just a matter of who can wittle the other guy down first. So instead of big heals, we just make everyone really tanky? That just sounds really irritating to be honest. I mean the only other option there is to make damage higher and shorten TTK, which isn't truly an option.

 

Now I played a lot of TERA back in the day so I've seen the other side of this and that concerns me, too. As much as I loved healing in that game, massive heals were balanced by both massive dps and massive CC potential. So that could get frustrating at times. What is the good middle ground that is actually fun where everyone feels effective at their chosen role without feeling frustrated when they're being countered properly?

 

Edit: I just had a new fear crop up where now that so many AT's have some form of healing, they'll just tune down the healing and turn it into a GW2 style "everyone gets a heal!". And that's an entirely different discussion but it just isn't fun IMO. We need proper roles.

Edited by Leiloni

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MOBAs have classes that can heal too, they are useful in some situations and bad in others.  We should wait to see how the balance looks when more of the features are in and we actually have a real game to play.

I can no longer take anything you say seriously.  You are a total fanboy and ALWAYS side with ACE.  May I remind you we are dealing with the same dev that brought us trammel in ultima.  Theres much room for concern.

Edited by bigcat

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Only the Legio can really keep a team mate alive under focus fire- and even that requires the friendly to avoid damage and receive defensive peels. I'd be alright with every archetype getting some sort of a self-heal cooldown, if only to avoid Centaur stacking. It'd also allow support archetypes to focus more on buffing/debuffing and less on burst healing. Obviously, small heals here and there are completely acceptable...the Centaur HoTs and druid orbs are fine.


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Also don't forget there are numerous ways to counter heals that can be added in besides just heal debuffs and as long as these are fun for both involved, it can be a great way to balance things out. 

 

This is what I would like. With the Disciplines, Devs could get very creative which would allow us to do the same.

 

Here's my question to people who want less powerful healing - how exactly do you guys envision this working? 

 

As is, the examples of Disciplines would allow everyone to have a heal or multiple.

 

I'm personally not against heals just because, but I would prefer there be more effort involved in all abilities.

 

They talked up how "skill" would be a big deal and many say that the vertical power upgrades from gear/passive training won't matter much, but the abilities and ATs really don't have a lot of depth.

 

I don't expect everything to be precision aiming, but some effort could be made. Orbs, targeted and aim friendly AOE, Cone, channeled, anything is better than click and forget without any kind of target.

 

Same applies for melee. I'd much prefer positional and chain attacks that require more effort. Not just hit whatever is available while facing the nearest target.

 

My hope is Disciplines and Promos open up more utility to make the base ATs more exciting and challenging. Risk vs Reward. Aimed abilities should pay off more than PBAE or whatever. Then again if they are going with more "assisted" targeting with aiming (Raycast I believe), the reward shouldn't be that great.

 

Looking at the FAQ, I interpreted it to mean healing wouldn't be a necessity, currently, it seems to be. CC, mitigation, utility type ATs/abilities could take the place of healing and provide other ways to play and create team comps.

 

Such as having anti-healing builds. If one of those is able to remove a healer from battle but not be a killing machine as well, this would be another way to play. Not everyone group will need a cookie cutter ABCD line up with little variation.

 

The actual numbers and TTK are something to be worked on overtime, no where near today. They still need to get combat itself to be a fully functioning system.

 

I can no longer take anything you say seriously.  You are a total fanboy and ALWAYS side with ACE.  May I remind you we are dealing with the same dev that brought us trammel in ultima.  Theres much room for concern.

 

While VN is a interesting forum goer, his comment isn't wrong. Focusing on the strength of individual or types of abilities is rather fruitless without more context. 

 

If you are concerned about past products, why support this one?

 

 It'd also allow support archetypes to focus more on buffing/debuffing and less on burst healing. 

 

Agreed. There is a lot more then straight healing of any sort. Lots of utility abilities/types that could be added to the current combat system. Maybe disciplines will do so.

Edited by APE

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