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Only the Legio can really keep a team mate alive under focus fire- and even that requires the friendly to avoid damage and receive defensive peels. I'd be alright with every archetype getting some sort of a self-heal cooldown, if only to avoid Centaur stacking. It'd also allow support archetypes to focus more on buffing/debuffing and less on burst healing. Obviously, small heals here and there are completely acceptable...the Centaur HoTs and druid orbs are fine.

 

In that 12h stream, where they showed a list of planned discipline runestones, at least one of them was a heal, more specifically the legio #2 bellow heal. I imagine that one will be very popular if healing remains the way it is. 

 

I'm not against making some legio heals require more aim and setup to work, like the druid heals do, but perhaps more importantly give diminishing returns for legio stacking. However damage needs to be lowered considerably on some specific ATs and powers as well. When health pools are 48k and ppl are hitting for 20-50k on some powers, that's a problem. Yet we see people complain about "firehose" healing a lot more than the ridiculous damage values  :P

 

Also freaking out about an AT that wasn't even released yet isn't needed IMO. Let's wait and see what kind of heal he has. From the powers description, it seems like you need to deal damage in order to receive the healing, that's not a "skillless" heal. 

Edited by Rikutatis

 

 

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Its not the healing per se thats the issue its the lack of aiming and targetting the heals. I.e. the healing aspect of some of the ATs are less skillful then the aimed damage dealing powers.

 

AoE effects because they are not targeted are less skillful.


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Well to be technical not all the classes are online yet so the 1/3 being healers right now doesn't really mean anything when there are 13 classes planed for launch.

 

Personally I feel like everyone just takes their own meaning from what ACE said about healing. To me it means there won't be any whack-a-mole style healing where ALL you're doing is watching health bars and spamming healing spells.

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Well to be technical not all the classes are online yet so the 1/3 being healers right now doesn't really mean anything when there are 13 classes planed for launch.

 

Personally I feel like everyone just takes their own meaning from what ACE said about healing. To me it means there won't be any whack-a-mole style healing where ALL you're doing is watching health bars and spamming healing spells.

Yes indeed, I have run dungeons in WoW as a healer and I couldnt remember much about the actual dungeon. All the focus was on the health bars.


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Its not the healing per se thats the issue its the lack of aiming and targetting the heals. I.e. the healing aspect of some of the ATs are less skillful then the aimed damage dealing powers.

 

AoE effects because they are not targeted are less skillful.

 

This ^. You could make the heals very powerful and that wouldn't bother me, as long as it took some sort of skill to land it.

 

Between the Legio and the planned Templar we already have too much AOE hit one button and heal. This encourages zergs to blob up to out sustain the enemy. This is not a play style I like.

 

Forcing aimed heals would require more coordination to have a similar healing effect. Since the DPS is having to deal with using skill shots, why do you want the healers to have it easy with one button AOE heals?

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Yes indeed, I have run dungeons in WoW as a healer and I couldnt remember much about the actual dungeon. All the focus was on the health bars.

Try healing a dungeon in a Wildstar, it's a completely different experience. Different healers have very different telegraphs which changes what they can easily do very much, and the tank and DPS share responsibility in getting healed because they have to position themselves well. It's a much better dynamic and takes a lot of skill to do well (from everyone).

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This ^. You could make the heals very powerful and that wouldn't bother me, as long as it took some sort of skill to land it.

 

Between the Legio and the planned Templar we already have too much AOE hit one button and heal. This encourages zergs to blob up to out sustain the enemy. This is not a play style I like.

 

Forcing aimed heals would require more coordination to have a similar healing effect. Since the DPS is having to deal with using skill shots, why do you want the healers to have it easy with one button AOE heals?

While I don't disagree a large variety of heals should be aimed I'd also dont want to see everything get homogenized to the point that creativity is stifled. You also have take in consideration the logistics and flow of the archetype. Having single target rectangular "turn around and pick a target when your in the middle of a bunch of dudes" might be not be logical for the Templar; hence the life steal buff and pbaoe(?) abilities. Bellow also felt jarring for me, cause here you have a supposed melee character that's forced to stop and look around and throw a heal; kinda throws the rhyme of the character (but since most legios are played from the back it don't matter).

 

It makes more sense to me for a Templar to run in with her teammates pop buffs and swing away.

Edited by helix

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This ^. You could make the heals very powerful and that wouldn't bother me, as long as it took some sort of skill to land it.

 

Between the Legio and the planned Templar we already have too much AOE hit one button and heal. This encourages zergs to blob up to out sustain the enemy. This is not a play style I like.

 

Forcing aimed heals would require more coordination to have a similar healing effect. Since the DPS is having to deal with using skill shots, why do you want the healers to have it easy with one button AOE heals?

Just because its an AoE doesn't make it easy. Resource cost and cooldowns are a simple yet effective way to make it so can't just spam it and forget it.

 

and like Helix just wrote its not really workable to have all heals have to be aimed. Large battles, Templar being a melee fighter etc.

 

How a heal is activated is less important then how much it heals for, IMO. OP healing goes against ACE stated vision, how its activated doesn't.

Edited by pang

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These boring mechanics are gonna make combat stale af. Game wont make it past a couple months before all the Novelty falls off and everyone is just running around in FOTM groups zerging everyone lol. Why is everyone so against skillful play? Do you all just want an easy no think click buttons and win game?


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These boring mechanics are gonna make combat stale af. Game wont make it past a couple months before all the Novelty falls off and everyone is just running around in FOTM groups zerging everyone lol. Why is everyone so against skillful play? Do you all just want an easy no think click buttons and win game?

Pretty sure no one wants that or is arguing for it.

 

Variety of heals is the best way to go. Making them all need to be used wisely and efficiently regardless of how they are activated is what will keep it from being boring and stale, IMO. 

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If a PBAoE makes sense for the melee Templar archetype doesn't it make equal sense for the melee Legionnaire AT? Should the AoE heals simply have their radius lowered?

 

Also for consideration: if they change the delivery mechanism of a healing ability (like from an AoE to a cone) they'll probably need to change the animation of said ability. Our animators, however, are few in number and also busy bringing new archetypes online.

Edited by mrmoneda

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Try healing a dungeon in a Wildstar, it's a completely different experience. Different healers have very different telegraphs which changes what they can easily do very much, and the tank and DPS share responsibility in getting healed because they have to position themselves well. It's a much better dynamic and takes a lot of skill to do well (from everyone).

 

But it's not fun to play and it's not fun to look at. You can do skillful action combat healing in far better ways. TERA is just one example but it's a good one, and with some of the combat mechanics already in place it makes more sense. But the easy no targeting, no aiming, massive AoE, etc. style things we are seeing a bit of currently need to be changed.

 

 

While I don't disagree a large variety of heals should be aimed I'd also dont want to see everything get homogenized to the point that creativity is stifled. You also have take in consideration the logistics and flow of the archetype. Having single target rectangular "turn around and pick a target when your in the middle of a bunch of dudes" might be not be logical for the Templar; hence the life steal buff and pbaoe(?) abilities. Bellow also felt jarring for me, cause here you have a supposed melee character that's forced to stop and look around and throw a heal; kinda throws the rhyme of the character (but since most legios are played from the back it don't matter).

 

It makes more sense to me for a Templar to run in with her teammates pop buffs and swing away.

 

 

Stopping to throw a heal sounds odd until you consider that heals can be designed in a variety of different ways. PBAoE is terrible and I hope they don't do any of those on any AT.  But they can do melee heals. TERA had a heal called Healing Circle for the Priest that was a fixed 5m instant cast AoE that dropped at the healer's feet at the bottom of the circle (sidenote - I've found that circle shaped AoEs feel and work a lot better than square, rectangular, and cone shaped ones so I hope ACE can change that with existing skills - aiming feels weird and less natural with the latter styles). That would be a great design for a heavy melee fighter like Templar. They wouldn't have to reposition awkwardly, they'd only need to turn to the friendly player right next to them and pop the heal and continue fighting. I think it would be nice, smooth gameplay.

 

 

How a heal is activated is less important then how much it heals for, IMO. OP healing goes against ACE stated vision, how its activated doesn't.

 

 

Omg I have to disagree. How a heal is activated and how it's designed is everything. How much it heals for is just a number that can easily be tweaked. Design and activation are why I loved TERA healing on both classes and felt Wildstar was terrible and ESO was "ok" but still quite lacking. It's why for tab target I felt like Aion and FFXIV did healing really well and games like WoW and RIFT were not very fun.

Edited by Leiloni

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Pretty sure no one wants that or is arguing for it.

 

Variety of heals is the best way to go. Making them all need to be used wisely and efficiently regardless of how they are activated is what will keep it from being boring and stale, IMO. 

 

We don't need variety, we just need quality design. There's no need to pressure the devs to make a ton of different heals just so we're not all the same. Fun design is good no matter how many times you see it. Let's focus on quality over quantity.

 

 

If a PBAoE makes sense for the melee Templar archetype doesn't it make equal sense for the melee Legionnaire AT? Should the AoE heals simply have their radius lowered?

 

Also for consideration: if they change the delivery mechanism of a healing ability (like from an AoE to a cone) they'll probably need to change the animation of said ability. Our animators, however, are few in number and also busy bringing new archetypes online.

 

No, PbAoE needs to go. Nobody should have one even if the radius is lowered. It's not fun and it's not skillful. If you want a melee circle heal, just do what TERA did and put a fixed location heal at their feet and make it small so they have to go in melee range. It accomplishes the same thing in a more fun way that also requires a bit more skill and teamwork. Skill because you need to get close and face them so it's as much aiming as you can expect from an AoE melee heal, but it also means your teammates need to get close to each other if they all want to be healed. So you can't run into a big fight and heal everyone nearby. They need to organize and pay attention, as do you, so better parties will be the ones getting healed and those who can't (or are otherwise occupied by a more skilled enemy), won't all get healed. The healer will waste a CD or some mana as well. It's a small change that goes a long way.

 

It's not the best video but it shows you what I mean. This healer uses the skill twice from about 26 to about 36 seconds. You can see the white outline of the small 5m circle at her feet and the team is all bunched up and gets healed both times.

 

https://youtu.be/Mnxu2PwZRvg?t=25

 

Compared to this person who around 4:19 only gets two people out of a huge group. Imagine if that were a PvP scenario and your group was that scattered. The PbAoE would hit a lot of them with little skill involved on anybody's part (aside from the healer running into range and trying not to die), even if the AoE was smaller. This at least requires a bit of thought.

 

https://youtu.be/fbtd5THe26Y?t=258

Edited by Leiloni

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For a healer whose damage comes from ranged casting I'm all for the aimed heals, but for the Templar (and the Legionnaire if/when they get an ability reevaluation) who wields a melee weapon and has to do damage to heal, I'm fine with a PBAoE.


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We don't need variety, we just need quality design. There's no need to pressure the devs to make a ton of different heals just so we're not all the same. Fun design is good no matter how many times you see it. Let's focus on quality over quantity.

 

 Why not both? If the goal is to make it not boring and stale than having different types of heals is the obvious answer. Don't need a "ton" just a few different types as well as them being based on the class that has them. Meaning it makes sense for a ranged AT to have aimed heals but a melee AT? Not so much,

 

and yeah like already said AoE heals are ok as long as you can't spam them and not use them wisely. Resource cost, cooldowns, radius are all things that can be used along with activation method to make them "smarter".

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There are plenty of ways to make it more skillful to use than a PBAoE. My fear of PBAoE is that a bunch of Legionaire's/Templars team up to play easy mode. You basically just glue to your target, stay grouped and spam your PBAoEs when they are up and have no fear of dying. To fix this they would have to implement diminishing returns which is a boring fix for a boring style of gameplay.

 

Instead of PBAoE you can change these to a targeted AoE. You could also throw out a healing banner that provides an AoE for 10 seconds or until enemies destroy the banner.

 

There are two things that I am asking for when I ask for skilled heals:

 

1) Increase the skill ceiling. Make it so heals require work just like damage does to put it at an even playing field.

2) Leiloni I think noticed this. It sounds like Leiloni is a full time healer and has experience with healing in a lot of different games. As someone already brought up healing dungeons often sucks because the only thing you remember in a dungeon is what peoples health bars looked like. A game is more involved when a healer watches health bars over a players health opposed to looking at their party grouping. PBAoEs is the same type of mindless healing. People don't play healers because developers have failed at making a healer truly fun. PBAoE isn't a fix for making healing more fun, its the same type of mindless hogwash that we have seen for years. Make healing fun with thought out interesting heals. PBAoE is the laziest type of heal you could add to a game.

Edited by mastakane

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For a healer whose damage comes from ranged casting I'm all for the aimed heals, but for the Templar (and the Legionnaire if/when they get an ability reevaluation) who wields a melee weapon and has to do damage to heal, I'm fine with a PBAoE.

 

That's like asking for an easymode, OP healer that everyone is going to play and everyone is going to hate (including those playing it lol).

 

 

It sounds like Leiloni is a full time healer and has experience with healing in a lot of different games. 

 

 

Yea I've played a healer in an absurd amount of games for the past 10 years (usually every game I play I play every healer offered) and I've spent an equally absurd amount of time discussing them on forums lol.

 

Edited by Leiloni

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