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Keep asking my friend. The 5 second "iframe" immunity on the C ability for every single class was poorly thought out. The C ability should be something that stands out and defines what that class is. Instead we got lame PBAoEs and a 5 second immunity for the most part.

 

Artcraft Employee: "Hey lets give everyone a 5 second immunity from damage on their C ability because...."

Intern at Artcraft: "...because why?"

Artcraft Employee: "Shut up new guy."

Lol how did it turn in to 5 seconds from 3 seconds?

 

And im not sure anyone actually likes the C ability. Its a chessy MOBA feel.

 

But i doubt it will change....but even if they did change it, you are talking about wanting them to rework at least one ability on every single archetype so this templar can feel special.

 

But who knows, when they start looking at balance and combat at the archetype level instead of a overall frame-work, stuff like this will be addressed.

 

I mean how great would it be for the knights block work better then a brain dead afk hold RMB?

 

How great would it to see a champion?

 

How great would it be for a confessor to not derive 90% of her damage from LMB and #4?

Edited by Vectious

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Lol how did it turn in to 5 seconds from 3 seconds?

 

And im not sure anyone actually likes the C ability. Its a chessy MOBA feel.

 

But i doubt it will change....but even if they did change it, you are talking about wanting them to rework at least one ability on every single archetype so this templar can feel special.

 

I blame Tinnis. He said ~5 so I used that number. I will help you tar and feather him if it makes you feel better.

 

To be honest it isn't good enough to be in a MOBA. MOBA have more thought out ultimates. It is essentially like they took 1 Ult from a Moba then adapted it for each character.

 

I don't think you have to rework the C to just add a dash with iframe immunity to the Templar. Reworking the C is just another good idea, but they are mutually exclusive.

I mean how great would it be for the knights block work better then a brain dead afk hold RMB?

 

How great would it to see a champion?

 

How great would it be for a confessor to not derive 90% of her damage from LMB and #4?

 

I feel like I am one of the few who isn't bothered by the Knights block. Sure it could be better, but it does what it is supposed to do. You block when you choose to and you don't when you don't want to. Consistent stamina drain helps the ability not be OP. Maybe its cause I play dark souls and block works essentially the same, but no stamina drain till you take a hit.

 

The Champion doesn't even feel like it belongs in the same game as the rest of the classes. It is dreadful, looks poorly made socksty and has an ability that makes your entire screen shake in an annoying fashion for too many seconds.

 

100% agree on the confessor. When I play her I basically hold LMB and hit 4 when its up. Occasionally throw in some CC. The fire fan and the fireball charge up are so situational they are almost never worth using.

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Hmm, they could just retcon Centaur and put him back on cavalry. He was never meant to be a healer, now that they have the intended melee support class ready, Centaur can be restored.


a52d4a0d-044f-44ff-8a10-ccc31bfa2d87.jpg          Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... Than if they're upset, they'll be a mile away, and barefoot :P

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Hmm, they could just retcon Centaur and put him back on cavalry. He was never meant to be a healer, now that they have the intended melee support class ready, Centaur can be restored.

 

Well Templar is supposed to be a tank but I agree that they'd work really well as a melee healer. Everything about the Centaur is just a terrible idea for a melee healer IMO. I'm not even sure I like the idea of them being melee at all.

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Well Templar is supposed to be a tank but I agree that they'd work really well as a melee healer. Everything about the Centaur is just a terrible idea for a melee healer IMO. I'm not even sure I like the idea of them being melee at all.

I think things would be improved SO much by removing the 'role' description.

 

Its more confusing then anything else.

 

But yeah, if she can healer herself, that counts as sustain which would make her tanky.


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Well Templar is supposed to be a tank but I agree that they'd work really well as a melee healer. Everything about the Centaur is just a terrible idea for a melee healer IMO. I'm not even sure I like the idea of them being melee at all.

Its too bad its already been developed. Frankly, I disagree though on the Templar being a healer, I am glad they are under the "tank" archtype as I think far too often the concept gets "gutted" and made into a healer. 

 

I agree on the distaste for the current Centaur AoE healing. The fast movement speed + healing just feels weird about the character. 

 

What do you think about a "nerf" to the centaur in the sense of increasing the HPS, reducing the duration, and making it a "channeled" ability? This would atleast require some level of skill positioning to heal? 

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Well Templar is supposed to be a tank but I agree that they'd work really well as a melee healer. Everything about the Centaur is just a terrible idea for a melee healer IMO. I'm not even sure I like the idea of them being melee at all.

Pretty sure a cavalry class should focus on melee, it's the fastest by nature, and while cavalry archery is awesome, it's also broken.

 

Centaur is the biggest heaviest archetype in the game, it should be wrecking force, a high damage and defense skirmisher.


a52d4a0d-044f-44ff-8a10-ccc31bfa2d87.jpg          Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... Than if they're upset, they'll be a mile away, and barefoot :P

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Pretty sure a cavalry class should focus on melee, it's the fastest by nature, and while cavalry archery is awesome, it's also broken.

 

Centaur is the biggest heaviest archetype in the game, it should be wrecking force, a high damage and defense skirmisher.

So turn Centaur into the Myrmidon?

 

Can agree with changing the Centaur away from an AoE healer but not sure copying entire AT mechanics is the answer.

Edited by pang

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So turn Centaur into the Myrmidon?

 

Can agree with changing the Centaur away from an AoE healer but not sure copying entire AT mechanics is the answer.

 

I agree with this. The way I see the Centaur is a support melee that essentially has medium damage and medium defensive capabilities. Where the Centaur will shine though is in a party. Give him extra CC and roots, the net in my opinion should be a Centaur ability, not a Myrmidon. The Centaur could have buffs or shields that he can throw onto allies.

 

Make sure all these abilities have to be aimed, not more PBAoE crap.

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I don't know, how does cavalry work?... if you imagine that they advance and stop at their opponent, your not too keen.

 

There's a function to cavalry just as much as there's a function to infantry, they both exceed at their given role.


a52d4a0d-044f-44ff-8a10-ccc31bfa2d87.jpg          Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... Than if they're upset, they'll be a mile away, and barefoot :P

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I don't know, how does cavalry work?... if you imagine that they advance and stop at their opponent, your not too keen.

 

There's a function to cavalry just as much as there's a function to infantry, they both exceed at their given role.

Indeed, I'd like the Centaur and Standard Cav (looking at the knights warhorse skills here) to have Slow and powerful single hit side swipe attacks so as emphasis the attack and keep going of cavalry. Not to mention they should have an awful backpeddle speed and a maximum turn speed.

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Something like that, I was thinking they could increase certain kinds of damage based on speed, so both the standing and moving unit take increased damage from momentum. Cavalry attacks could additionally perform more focused attacks to deal high single hit damage.

 

I don't think thrusts and slashes from horseback are slow though, more like broad and continuous, timing an attack right as you contact a foe will be difficult enough.

 

Trample and graze damage could be added as well for moving over downed units and brushing units when your moving fast even without an attack.

 

Lower DPS, high sudden damage with regular knockdown feature. But they can also focus on strafing moving riders or carriages and dealing dps at higher speeds.

Edited by bahamutkaiser

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Indeed I really hope we don't end up with horses just for transport like most MMO's... I mean what's a Throne War without epic cavalry charges.

But... I think we're a bit of topic here. Let's talk about how a Centaur went from 25% to 100% three times in one battle with me. Fire hose healing is bad... fire hose self healing is worse.

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There's no point in dwelling on the problem, it's pretty obvious, and trivial if they respond to the problem with a bad solution.


a52d4a0d-044f-44ff-8a10-ccc31bfa2d87.jpg          Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes... Than if they're upset, they'll be a mile away, and barefoot :P

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Indeed I really hope we don't end up with horses just for transport like most MMO's... I mean what's a Throne War without epic cavalry charges.

 

But... I think we're a bit of topic here. Let's talk about how a Centaur went from 25% to 100% three times in one battle with me. Fire hose healing is bad... fire hose self healing is worse.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrqEgRstbyQ

 

look how much dps he heals thru...legio is the definition of firehose heals lol


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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrqEgRstbyQ

 

look how much dps he heals thru...legio is the definition of firehose heals lol

 

I still can't believe people complain about legio healing values with the amount of burst dps this game has atm. I can understand people want legio healing to be more skillful, and I'm alright with that as long as dps values are decreased significantly. But again, legio heals is NOT balanced for 1v1. This game is NOT going to be based around 1v1. Crying that you can't out-dps a legio in a 1v1 and saying the class is broken because of that is silly. Legio heals and the entire game should be balanced around group fights. In group fights what happens is this: A double myrm C will insta-kill you. A myrm C + a good confessor absolution will inst-kill you. Two confessors hitting good absolutions on you will insta-kill you. With the amount of ridiculously high burst dps this game has atm, a single legio can't even keep a group of 5 healed up by himself. His heals just aren't enough atm. Damage needs to be decreased. We have videos all over the place showing fessors hitting for 25-40k, Myrm C hitting for 35-50k, even ranger arrows hitting for 30-40k. And still people cry legio heals too much... 


 

 

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I still can't believe people complain about legio healing values with the amount of burst dps this game has atm. I can understand people want legio healing to be more skillful, and I'm alright with that as long as dps values are decreased significantly. But again, legio heals is NOT balanced for 1v1. This game is NOT going to be based around 1v1. Crying that you can't out-dps a legio in a 1v1 and saying the class is broken because of that is silly. Legio heals and the entire game should be balanced around group fights. In group fights what happens is this: A double myrm C will insta-kill you. A myrm C + a good confessor absolution will inst-kill you. Two confessors hitting good absolutions on you will insta-kill you. With the amount of ridiculously high burst dps this game has atm, a single legio can't even keep a group of 5 healed up by himself. His heals just aren't enough atm. Damage needs to be decreased. We have videos all over the place showing fessors hitting for 25-40k, Myrm C hitting for 35-50k, even ranger arrows hitting for 30-40k. And still people cry legio heals too much... 

 

Agreed about the need for proper healing and balanced dps, but movement needs to be decreased as well. That Confessor moves around in combat wayyyy too damn fast and alone that's just OP.  In combat movement speed needs to be slowed down and appropriate animation locking needs to be added in that's fast enough to be fun, but gives players a good amount of decision making and balance in combat. And the distance, speed, and frequency with which he can dash away is beyond absurd. The Legio couldn't even get close enough to hit him let alone put a CC or do some damage. I didn't even watch the full clip but what I saw of the Confessor was incredibly OP and from group videos I've seen of other players, it seems movement in general is a problem, both for balance's sake and just for fun's sake. It's not fun to watch a fight move quickly across several football field's worth of land and watch people constantly chasing each other. It's stupid to even look at and I can't imagine how dumb it is to play.

Edited by Leiloni

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Agreed about the need for proper healing and balanced dps, but movement needs to be decreased as well. That Confessor moves around in combat wayyyy too damn fast and alone that's just OP.  In combat movement speed needs to be slowed down and appropriate animation locking needs to be added in that's fast enough to be fun, but gives players a good amount of decision making and balance in combat. And the distance, speed, and frequency with which he can dash away is beyond absurd. The Legio couldn't even get close enough to hit him let alone put a CC or do some damage. I didn't even watch the full clip but what I saw of the Confessor was incredibly OP and from group videos I've seen of other players, it seems movement in general is a problem, both for balance's sake and just for fun's sake. It's not fun to watch a fight move quickly across several football field's worth of land and watch people constantly chasing each other. It's stupid to even look at and I can't imagine how dumb it is to play.

 

Good points. I think the problem is they were making the locked animations too slow. If they had been considerably faster, it could have worked better. Although I don't mind the current free movement either, but the problem is that many powers and ATs had been designed around the idea of locked combat. So now with free movement they feel very obsolete and inadequate. Also about the fessor movement in that video, that's a current bug / exploit / unintended consequence of physics in the game. It creeped into the game in one of the latest builds, didn't use to exist before. If you dash and jump at the end of the dash animation you'll cover 31m instead of the usual 18m (or similar numbers, Tnnis did the testing). Also legio has zero hard CCs. It's pretty much impossible to catch up to a fessor atm. However I dueled a confessor from my guild with a legio just for fun, and he didn't use that movement exploit, and it becomes somewhat more manageable that way. Still a lot of kiting and running around though, so your point still remains. 


 

 

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I still can't believe people complain about legio healing values with the amount of burst dps this game has atm. I can understand people want legio healing to be more skillful, and I'm alright with that as long as dps values are decreased significantly. But again, legio heals is NOT balanced for 1v1. This game is NOT going to be based around 1v1. Crying that you can't out-dps a legio in a 1v1 and saying the class is broken because of that is silly. Legio heals and the entire game should be balanced around group fights. In group fights what happens is this: A double myrm C will insta-kill you. A myrm C + a good confessor absolution will inst-kill you. Two confessors hitting good absolutions on you will insta-kill you. With the amount of ridiculously high burst dps this game has atm, a single legio can't even keep a group of 5 healed up by himself. His heals just aren't enough atm. Damage needs to be decreased. We have videos all over the place showing fessors hitting for 25-40k, Myrm C hitting for 35-50k, even ranger arrows hitting for 30-40k. And still people cry legio heals too much... 

I agree.

 

But its a balance. If they take away the two current burst damage abilities (Myrm C and Confessor #4) then if there is a lego then the likely hood of anyone dying is slim to none.

 

Also, the issue why crying for lego is because his healing is so EASY, statistically every C the lego uses heals for much more then any Myrm C ability. Its a huge AoE that heals everyone.

 

Honestly, if Myrm didint have their root the way it is their C would be alot less scary, they would be so kitable it would be a joke. 

 

 

 

While i agree with most of whats being said. Nerfing is not always the answer, each archetype needs to fit a role(and i dont mean dps/tank/support). I would prefer them making Champion viable before nerfing anything on the Myrm.


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Agreed about the need for proper healing and balanced dps, but movement needs to be decreased as well. That Confessor moves around in combat wayyyy too damn fast and alone that's just OP.  In combat movement speed needs to be slowed down and appropriate animation locking needs to be added in that's fast enough to be fun, but gives players a good amount of decision making and balance in combat. And the distance, speed, and frequency with which he can dash away is beyond absurd. The Legio couldn't even get close enough to hit him let alone put a CC or do some damage. I didn't even watch the full clip but what I saw of the Confessor was incredibly OP and from group videos I've seen of other players, it seems movement in general is a problem, both for balance's sake and just for fun's sake. It's not fun to watch a fight move quickly across several football field's worth of land and watch people constantly chasing each other. It's stupid to even look at and I can't imagine how dumb it is to play.

 

I think this issue would be solved, if they actually appropriately balanced armor types. Right now, PART of the issue is "squishy" classes are not all that squishy compared to "tank" classes.

 

Leather, mail, plate are all considered "options" that provide different mitigation for different things. IMO, this isnt good. To take that further mail and plate hurt your movement speed.

 

 

What they need to do, is make armor much more dynamic and higher "weight" is higher damage resistance across the board.

 

So Leather should be 10% damage resistance "base" - across the board.

Mail should be in the 20% damage resistance "base" - across the board.

Plate should be in the 40% damage resistance "base" - across the board.

(Meaning with good quality, such as blue or Epic, some of these values could get closer to 50%-100% higher than current %s)

- Nerf HP values by about 20%.

 

What this means, is a player who runs around naked, will feel much more squishy compared to a player in leather. Then, a player in mail will feel tankier, and then a player in plate feels even tankier.

 

REMOVE the movement speed modifier and INSTEAD make an adjuster to sprint/dodge consumption on armor.

 

Leather = 0% change in sprint/consumption.

Mail = Sprint/Dodge consume 50% more stamina.

Plate = Sprint/Dodge consume 100% more stamina.

 

Now, everyone has the same movement speed.

 

 

What this would (hopefully) do, is make it so Confessors who want mobility will be likely rolling around in leather. They would likely still be the "kings" of 1v1 with their kite ability, but with leather armor and reduced HP, they get CCd once and stunned and can likely be killed. 

 

OR if a confessor wants, he/she can put on plate for severely reduced "dodge/sprint" ability, but be MUCH tankier.

 

I think this MIGHT start to balance things out just a bit... Now a Legio wearing Plate could take a SIGNIFICANT beating from a Fessor and it likely might end in a tie...

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