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I can speak with 100% certainty when I say that root motions on LMB were terrible (they were originally in the game, and godawful). The combat we have now is a million times better than what we had originally. The feedback has been pretty much positive when it comes to the combat changes.

 

Also I see a lot of comparisons to TERA and neverwinter. You want to know what both of these games have in common? They're both predominately PvE with smaller scale instanced pvp tacked on. 

 

PvP in TERA was amazing though (that's the primary reason why I and many others played it lol) and one thing they didn't have a lot of was rooting. Everything had locked animations but you were usually moving in some way while doing it. The only classes with significant rooting were casters which is to be expected but like I said, they had a lot of ability to stop, cast, move, along with a lot of teleports, dodges, and CC, so it worked out anyway. It's about doing the idea right and that means fast, smooth, animations with lots of movement, not rooting.

Edited by Leiloni

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PvP in TERA was amazing though (that's the primary reason why I and many others played it lol) and one thing they didn't have a lot of was rooting. Everything had locked animations but you were usually moving in some way while doing it. The only classes with significant rooting were casters which is to be expected but like I said, they had a lot of ability to stop, cast, move, along with a lot of teleports, dodges, and CC, so it worked out anyway. It's about doing the idea right and that means fast, smooth, animations with lots of movement, not rooting.

 

That game had close to a hundred developers on it and years upon years of development (in fact, some of the source code was stolen if I remember correctly). I have no doubt that something like that could work if crowfall had a few more years of development and a sizable art and dev team that worked predominately on combat. Unfortunately that's not the case, and I'd rather them focus on something that's fast, fluid and works.

 

Different strokes for different folks I guess.

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That game had close to a hundred developers on it and years upon years of development (in fact, some of the source code was stolen if I remember correctly). I have no doubt that something like that could work if crowfall had a few more years of development and a sizable art and dev team that worked predominately on combat. Unfortunately that's not the case, and I'd rather them focus on something that's fast, fluid and works.

 

Different strokes for different folks I guess.

 

No source code was stolen and used in TERA. It was an accusation that NCSoft lost on several times in two countries. They were just salty they lost a bunch of good devs I guess, I dunno.

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I agree but the type of skill I described does the same things. Also I'm not a huge fan of GtAoE but I can live with one or two if necessary. But generally they're not fun, either and not terribly hard to use.

It doesn't do the same thing, because it doesn't force the Legionnaire into melee to heal others, which means the Legionnaire can continue to stay at the outskirts of battle, and they can fire off the heal at any time, limiting the counterplay of anti-heal.

 

I agree that there are plenty of other ways to implement healing/support abilties: healing projectiles (which could be intercepted by enemies), a buff that reverses damage taken into healing, hell even throw out a healing gust/tornado (heals and knocksback friendlies), a friendly pull/push ability, to name a few.  Each type can have a place in the healing kit, even PBAOE if the range of the heal is properly balanced.

Edited by Bnol

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That game had close to a hundred developers on it and years upon years of development (in fact, some of the source code was stolen if I remember correctly). I have no doubt that something like that could work if crowfall had a few more years of development and a sizable art and dev team that worked predominately on combat. Unfortunately that's not the case, and I'd rather them focus on something that's fast, fluid and works.

 

Different strokes for different folks I guess.

 

I disagree.

Crowfall will be 90% about combat and 70% of the playerbase will spend 90% of their time in combat. Even harvesting and crafting gonna be combat dependent.

If devs dont focus in combat design then crowfall will fail.

 

To tell you the truth, i think actual state of combat system is way too simple and too old.

We are seeing archetypes with a mix of healing, tankiness and CC. Some with more, some with less in a fast paced combat.

The only thing that maybe can shine is targeting but it isnt something UH OH! that nobody already tried before.

 

Why not make the combat a little more innovative? With more depth?

Because they dont have the numbers? Then dont do it...

 

Imagine a combat where all archetypes have just the basic. They can all DPS and have different quantity of resources (spent to cast spells, move, dodge etc).

You can balance it easily.

Now you could put healing and CC (two things that bring potential balance problems but are necessary) behind something called combos.

E.G: To heal someone, besides aiming (individual hability), you would need to know which of your teamate's skill combines with one of your skills resulting in a heal (previous knowledge), and cast it syncronized with your teammate (teamplay).

 

So without knowledge and teamplay, you dont have heal and CC on your side. Still, you can DPS.

 

This could encourage people to play together at the same time it could deeply disencourage too large and disorganized groups.

It also brings a lot of depth to the combat without making it boring, slow or complicated.

It is also something new, fresh, challenging.

 

Just my 2 cents about this subject.

I dont think they have time to change it anymore.

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I dont think they have time to change it anymore.

 

This is the biggest takeaway. They really don't. We need to adapt what we currently have and make it work, maybe over time it keeps getting better.

 

We have thread after thread of how CF needs redesign and now we have one about a soft launch of CF in 2017. We definitely don't get both and regardless of 2017 or 2018, there isn't enough time for a full combat redesign.

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This is the biggest takeaway. They really don't. We need to adapt what we currently have and make it work, maybe over time it keeps getting better.

 

We have thread after thread of how CF needs redesign and now we have one about a soft launch of CF in 2017. We definitely don't get both and regardless of 2017 or 2018, there isn't enough time for a full combat redesign.

They have all the time in the world.... However, the forums would explode.

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It doesn't do the same thing, because it doesn't force the Legionnaire into melee to heal others, which means the Legionnaire can continue to stay at the outskirts of battle, and they can fire off the heal at any time, limiting the counterplay of anti-heal.

 

I agree that there are plenty of other ways to implement healing/support abilties: healing projectiles (which could be intercepted by enemies), a buff that reverses damage taken into healing, hell even throw out a healing gust/tornado (heals and knocksback friendlies), a friendly pull/push ability, to name a few.  Each type can have a place in the healing kit, even PBAOE if the range of the heal is properly balanced.

 

Yes it does force them into melee lol - that's the point. You have a circle with a fixed location at your feet. You can't move it. It's a small circle. Again, at your feet. So, you have to walk up to your friend in melee range to heal them. Trust me on this, I spent years playing TERA with this exact skill. It was high reward (tons of HP healed) for high risk. That's why I recommended it. Also it's more skill than a PbAoE where you just run up and heal everyone, no aiming, no organization. Here at least you need to face the person and to heal more than one, they need to group up.

 

I thought maybe the Youtube was clear enough and then I added a little diagram. I'm not sure how to make it more clear lol.

Edited by Leiloni

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They have all the time in the world.... However, the forums would explode.

 

The graphics were dated before this game started developing. The longer they wait the worse this issue becomes. They also have competition from LiF - MMO and Camelot Unchained. So I do not agree that they have all the time in the world.

 

I am not a graphics person myself, I play for gameplay. There are many people though that are already turned off about graphics on CF. Just look at YouTube comments.

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I thought maybe the Youtube was clear enough and then I added a little diagram. I'm not sure how to make it more clear lol.

 

More diagrams please. Your Paint skills are so advanced.

 

I completely understand you and I think most people do. I think what they don't understand is that the targeted skill you are suggesting doesn't have a massive AOE like the Legio currently does. I think people have the idea the skill will still by gigantic and the Legio can be extremely far away from you. If you didn't reduce the size of the current AOE, there is some truth to what they are saying. I don't think this is your suggestion though.

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More diagrams please. Your Paint skills are so advanced.

 

I completely understand you and I think most people do. I think what they don't understand is that the targeted skill you are suggesting doesn't have a massive AOE like the Legio currently does. I think people have the idea the skill will still by gigantic and the Legio can be extremely far away from you. If you didn't reduce the size of the current AOE, there is some truth to what they are saying. I don't think this is your suggestion though.

 

I'm not suggesting a targeted skill lol. It's literally a circle attached to you and you walk up to someone and get in range. So imagine a GtAoE but take out the targeting part. It's just a circle on the ground and you move yourself to "target" it. So imagine some of the melee skills that are frontal cone or rectangle shaped frontal AoEs, and you just walk up to a target and start hitting? Ok same idea, except it's a circle shape instead, and when you press a button instead of a sword swing you just cast a spell in the same spot.

 

Size like I said is 5m radius. From what I can tell, Legio 6 is 15 m radius and Ranger 4 for comparison is 8m radius (I can't tell how big Druid Healing Rain is, but I'm thinking 8-10m radius as well). So it's going to be the smallest heal you've seen.

Edited by Leiloni

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I'm not suggesting a targeted skill lol. It's literally a circle attached to you and you walk up to someone and get in range. So imagine a GtAoE but take out the targeting part. It's just a circle on the ground and you move yourself to "target" it. So imagine some of the melee skills that are frontal cone or rectangle shaped frontal AoEs, and you just walk up to a target and start hitting? Ok same idea, except it's a circle shape instead, and when you press a button instead of a sword swing you just cast a spell in the same spot.

 

Size like I said is 5m radius. From what I can tell, Legio 6 is 15 m radius and Ranger 4 for comparison is 8m radius (I can't tell how big Druid Healing Rain is, but I'm thinking 8-10m radius as well). So it's going to be the smallest heal you've seen.

 

I apologize for forcing you to type this. I shouldn't have said targeted. I totally understand how the skill works and watched the Tera videos that show it in action. I tried to get into Tera a couple times and I think I might have even used it.

 

Kinda sad you didn't provide another diagram though. That would have been more helpful.

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Not sure what was so difficult to understand. This game was advertised as skill based aiming (no tab targeting).

 

Tab targeting games require you to at least click on a character or health bar or tab a few times to cycle to the character you want to select. Then you would then hit the key for your character. This forces you to use at least 2 keys and "select" someone you want to heal.

 

Giant AoE heals require 1 key and no "selection".

 

Now maybe this isn't simple enough for you.....

 

Tab targeting heals (2+ keys) is harder than PBAoE heals (1 key)

......

2+  > 1 = True

 

Conclusion: Tab targeting to heal someone is harder than 1 click PBAoE heal.

 

all I can think of is Aphrodite, Sylvanus and Chang'e's healing and Aphro's healing only works when you tether someone and that's a line skill to hit.

 

Giant AoE most likely will mean a lower healing return, same as Chang'e or Sylvanus' aoe Heals but they're not exactly lifesavers, they're just a sustain because someone is bound to get critted or bursted apart.


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Yes it does force them into melee lol - that's the point. You have a circle with a fixed location at your feet. You can't move it. It's a small circle. Again, at your feet. So, you have to walk up to your friend in melee range to heal them. Trust me on this, I spent years playing TERA with this exact skill. It was high reward (tons of HP healed) for high risk. That's why I recommended it. Also it's more skill than a PbAoE where you just run up and heal everyone, no aiming, no organization. Here at least you need to face the person and to heal more than one, they need to group up.

 

I thought maybe the Youtube was clear enough and then I added a little diagram. I'm not sure how to make it more clear lol.

There were several healing circles in the Youtube clip, some at longer range than the particular circle you mentioned, I now see the one you were referring to, my mistake. 

 

P.S. It was careful attention to the paint diagram (and the word fixed) that finally clued me in.

Edited by Bnol

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