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cemya

How To Encourage Newcomers To Pvp

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Crowfall is attracting a lot of interest, including from people who normally do not care for PVP.  A lot of comments on various websites seem to focus on  negative aspects.  I thought I would post some thoughts on how to be encouraging to newcomers.

 

First, let's remember that not everyone sprang from the egg a PVPer.  A lot of people came to like it later in their game experiences.  Often this happened because someone, perhaps even someone who had killed their character, took the time to reach out.  Second, let's also remember there is tremendous diversity in game styles, but these are not exclusive or immutable.  The fact that someone likes to PVP doesn't mean they don't enjoy other things and vice versa.  I think these two points are very important in thinking about how to "sell" Crowfall, since Crowfall from what we know will be a very broad approach that will integrate PVP with crafting, exploration, etc.

 

Here is NOT what to do (but which unfortunately you see all too much of):

 

EXAMPLE A

Newcomer:  Hmmm, Crowfall looks interesting, but I am not sure about the FFA PVP and full looting

Veteran PVPer:  This game isn't for you!  You are a carebear who just can't hack it!  You destroy player freedom!  GTFO and go back to WOW!

 

Now what would it hurt to say instead (and we do see some of this, but not enough IMO):

 

EXAMPLE B

Newcomer: Hmmm, Crowfall looks interesting, but I am not sure about the FFA PVP and full looting

Veteran PVPer:  It is challenging and not for everyone.  But keep an open mind and give it a chance.  Done right, PVP equals fun.

 

I think a lot of the more enduring and successful PVP guilds take approaches closer to B, especially as regards mentoring new members.  Yet at times these communities can seem insular.

 

Crowfall is shaping up to be something very unique as a PVP game in terms of the various things you can do to contribute.  I encourage everyone to do all they can on these boards to roll out the welcome mat and avoid falling into the old pattern of "hard core" versus "carebear."  Everyone who likes PVP has an interest in a game like this succeeding. 

Edited by cemya

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On a serious note, you don't necessarily have to go out of your way to help new guys. But don't attack noobies on the boards unless they're being.... rambunctious.


Cannibal Man - Future serial killer

I can't even.  You win, I am done with this part of the discussion.

 

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Definitely agree, cemya.

 

A lot of the more...zealous PvP'ers drive away players that could potentially learn to love PvP, given the right introduction.

 

I really hope this doesn't happen to Crowfall, like it has in many other games.

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Just kill them over and over until they get with the program.

Nothing motivates me more than losing, personally.


Cannibal Man - Future serial killer

I can't even.  You win, I am done with this part of the discussion.

 

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A personal anecdote.  

 

I started MMORPG basically as a bard on UO Atlantic.  Yes, I did poetry readings and had a flock of tamed song birds follow me around.  LOL if you want...I do now, looking back on it.  I still like those things, but I owe my willingness to try PVP to a criminal named Mayhem who killed and robbed around the Yew Crossroads.  I used to always run from him until one day, I suppose out of frustration, I attacked him.  At first he seemed surprised, and then he proceeded to destroy me with Corp Por (if I remember correctly, that was the death spell?).  Anyway, we ended up talking afterwards - my first ever conversation with a PVP killer.  I found out he was not necessarily killing people for malicious reasons, but rather because he simply enjoyed the challenge and contest.  I really appreciated a chance to actually start thinking about PVP as something not to be avoided and as something you can learn, like anything else.

 

I have seen people do that since, in all sorts of games - take the time to engage with people to answer questions and form a bridge for them to walk across into a new experience.

 

I don't want to sugar coat things too much.  Some newcomers are clearly trolling the PVPers and once that is evident they deserve an appropriate response.  And everyone has a limit to how much of their game time they are willing to set aside to help others (I certainly do, especially if they are asking questions that clearly are on the FAQ or webpage).  But it can make a difference.

 

So Mayhem, wherever you are - thx. :)

Edited by cemya

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If you look at the latest update from the devs God's Reach is 3 faction pvp which is probably similar to GW2s WvWvW or Rifts Conquest.  You lose inventory on death but not gear with 20% decay and 40% export when you win.  This is low risk, low reward probably aimed at newer or casual players.

 

The shadows is guild v. guild based.  You lose inventory and 20% chance to lose equipment with 30% decay.  You can also export 80% when you win.  Much more structured pvp but better reqards when you win.  

 

Looks to me like the devs are trying to make the game approachable for many types of players which really makes sense.  MMOs tend to only work when you actually have people playing the game. 

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If you look at the latest update from the devs God's Reach is 3 faction pvp which is probably similar to GW2s WvWvW or Rifts Conquest.  You lose inventory on death but not gear with 20% decay and 40% export when you win.  This is low risk, low reward probably aimed at newer or casual players.

 

The shadows is guild v. guild based.  You lose inventory and 20% chance to lose equipment with 30% decay.  You can also export 80% when you win.  Much more structured pvp but better reqards when you win.  

 

Looks to me like the devs are trying to make the game approachable for many types of players which really makes sense.  MMOs tend to only work when you actually have people playing the game. 

 

solid Observations there, imo...

 

and just adds to my increased thinking that good Minds are pondering all these Questions, and more... (hence pulling in the newest Heavyweight who is known for Crafting stuff)...

 

if nothing else...i do truly think we are going to be looking at something very different than what we have seen before...hopefully with all the Best stuff sorted out, and even moar goodies to mess with, break and adjust...

 

if the waiting doesn't drive me to seppuku first, of course...


FIQw0eP.png

let the Code build the World and it's Laws....let the Players build the rest...

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solid Observations there, imo...

 

and just adds to my increased thinking that good Minds are pondering all these Questions, and more... (hence pulling in the newest Heavyweight who is known for Crafting stuff)...

 

if nothing else...i do truly think we are going to be looking at something very different than what we have seen before...hopefully with all the Best stuff sorted out, and even moar goodies to mess with, break and adjust...

 

if the waiting doesn't drive me to seppuku first, of course...

 

 

I have felt for a long while that many games were artificially drawing lines.  If it was a "PVP game" it would give short shrift to other features on the misguided (IMO) thought that these would not appeal to their target audience.  If it was a game that featured PVE and crafting, PVP would be dealt with as a side activity and was often poorly integrated into the game.  While Crowfall is not the first to try and recapture the old UO magic, they really seem to be working this out with serious thinking that they can make something that draws in both old and new blood.

 

And of course Raph Koster's involvement has people sitting up and taking notice.

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I have felt for a long while that many games were artificially drawing lines.  If it was a "PVP game" it would give short shrift to other features on the misguided (IMO) thought that these would not appeal to their target audience.  If it was a game that featured PVE and crafting, PVP would be dealt with as a side activity and was often poorly integrated into the game.  While Crowfall is not the first to try and recapture the old UO magic, they really seem to be working this out with serious thinking that they can make something that draws in both old and new blood.

 

And of course Raph Koster's involvement has people sitting up and taking notice.

 

true enough...and hence my delight in the idea that they are working with the idea fo PvP being the center of Design rather than an asset...

 

thsi leads to building a World where all the rest HAS to be there, for proper Depth...

 

you want real Competition, it has to be against Players at every level...from Crafting to Sieges, how well can you gether Resources and use them efficiently...how about denying those same Resources to others....Territorial control, not just for your City...but the fields needed to feed it, the mines to equip it and so on...

 

yeah..."fantasy world simulator"

 

if it was anyone else but this Murder, i'd brush a lot of it off as marketing...

 

but some of this lot is a bit well known for their disdain of marketing "correctness", there's a quote floating around with JTC talking about the sword Shadowbane...and he says all kinds of off the cuff "it had great griefing potential"....

 

that line alone, coming from the lead Dev...has my virtual 'sword" offered in service to the liege Lord...and i'm a notorious ronin...


FIQw0eP.png

let the Code build the World and it's Laws....let the Players build the rest...

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Start newbs off in a realitively safe home world with pvp free areas, a tutorial, etc

 

Coax them into more open PvP world varients with progression, terrain, more resources

 

Lure them into Dregs with rare mats and phat loot, then just let nature take it's course.

 

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Edited by flex

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