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I also had a take bug during the short snap test yesterday. It was on a final craft of a one handed sword that I intentionally hit take quickly after it finished creating just to test it. The good news is is that was the only time and it did appear to work on all of my other crafts as long as I waited a few seconds before hitting take. Also, I don't think I have ever gotten it if I want several minutes (go afk and come back) and then hit take. I do think it is something to do with how long you wait but this is only my experience and may have already been disproved.

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I also had a take bug during the short snap test yesterday. It was on a final craft of a one handed sword that I intentionally hit take quickly after it finished creating just to test it. The good news is is that was the only time and it did appear to work on all of my other crafts as long as I waited a few seconds before hitting take. Also, I don't think I have ever gotten it if I want several minutes (go afk and come back) and then hit take. I do think it is something to do with how long you wait but this is only my experience and may have already been disproved.

Could be similar the the Myrms rage ability not showing correctly in the client, but always being a set time from the servers point of view. 

 

We could be "taking" the item before it even exists as far as the server is concerned.

 

I noticed what could be a related bug.  If you abort an item, and then make another right away, very often both items would appear in inventory when you take the second one.

 

Would also explain why dev doesn't see it as much, they don't have to deal with the server lag the way we do.

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So an observation i have had...

 

Pre This weekends patch:

 

When i play on my main computer, i would occasionally see the take bug.  (connected to a gigabit switch)

When i play upstairs, i see the take bug a lot!  (connected to a small 10m/100m switch)

 

So i was suspecting latency was causing it somehow.

 

Post new patch:

I logged in firs time, ran to trees, chopped wood and went to make a wooden rune block.  I lost the first one i tried.  succeeded second one.    I will see what happens with the patch today. i may play on that slower switch too, see if there is any meat to that previous theory...

 

Lin

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Could be similar the the Myrms rage ability not showing correctly in the client, but always being a set time from the servers point of view. 

 

We could be "taking" the item before it even exists as far as the server is concerned.

 

I noticed what could be a related bug.  If you abort an item, and then make another right away, very often both items would appear in inventory when you take the second one.

 

Would also explain why dev doesn't see it as much, they don't have to deal with the server lag the way we do.

 

So after sleeping on this issue and grinding the possibilities, I have a more detailed explanation of a theory.

 

If it is related to experimentation,

AND 

it is not related to the % of Item quality changed, 

THEN

It must be related to something else that changes in experimentation, which would be the complexity timer.

 

Because 

There is an additional bug where two items can be being built at the same time, one visible, one invisible, (thank you dupe bug for giving me an excuse to try to make multiple long build time items and go looking for this possibility), by hitting abort during the building process, once the yellow timer line has started to tick, there must be a second invisible object that continues to count down even if the visual representation of the timer is cleared and restarted on a new item.

 

Add in the observed behavior that if you just wait longer than the visual timer tells you to, the take bug is less likely.

 

If that invisible object does one or more of the of the following.

 

  • A ) is on a different timer started when the object is created, so that it's creation could potentially be delayed by a lag spike while the visible timer has already started
  • B ) is created with a different value for time in some instances due to "Failure" having inconsistent handling of complexity
  • C ) uses a slightly different formula to calculate or use complexity to determine time remaining
  • D ) because it is a different object is subject to lag spikes causing different behavior in timing than the visible timer and widening the de-sync with the visual representation of time.
  • E ) the invisible timer is never actually started during a lag spike, because the creation of the invisible timer is skipped over the same way a player can experience skipping in the world when spikes happen. Visually the item finishes, but invisibly the item is never built.

 

then it is possible for the visual to be finished and attempt to "take" and item that still does not exist as far as the invisible timer object is concerned.

 

That may explain all the symptoms.

 

Experiment makes it worse by lengthening the time to build, making D) a high possibility.

Any experiments make A) a candidate.

Fails make C) a possibility.

 

Welp, that's what I got, good luck guys. 

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

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How does the client communicate with the server?

 

Is this connection oriented (TCP?) or connectionless (UDP?)

 

if the later, what happens if you have packet loss during an item trasnfer?


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Seeing a ton of the bug right now, in the last 30 minutes, i've failed on 3 Yew Planks, 2 Stitched boar leather, a few shield coverings, a shield base, and a complete small shield. 

 

Seems pretty random to me so far.

- made sure no other UI windows were up

- on the PVE server

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Take bug strikes again:

 

Wooden Runestone - Knotwood

Pick Sigil - Gold Ore (Green Grade)

 

Both were made with no issue, but when I combined the 2, I was able to combine and then experiment.  When I tried to experiment, first 2 points, mod success, then a crit fail, next row 2/2 Crit/Crit.  Hit the take button and nothing in my inventory.

 

The Gold was pulled from chest on Misery and the Pick was crafted on Santuary.

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transfering items to the spirit bank (right clicking) = items just disappear.. (No they aren't overlapping, tried emptying it entirely) lost 50% of my gear that way.


Huginn ok Muninn, fljúga hverjan dag, Jörmungrund yfir; óumk ek of Hugin,, at hann aftr né komi-t, þó sjámk meir of Munin

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So after sleeping on this issue and grinding the possibilities, I have a more detailed explanation of a theory.

 

If it is related to experimentation,

AND 

it is not related to the % of Item quality changed, 

THEN

It must be related to something else that changes in experimentation, which would be the complexity timer.

 

Because 

There is an additional bug where two items can be being built at the same time, one visible, one invisible, (thank you dupe bug for giving me an excuse to try to make multiple long build time items and go looking for this possibility), by hitting abort during the building process, once the yellow timer line has started to tick, there must be a second invisible object that continues to count down even if the visual representation of the timer is cleared and restarted on a new item.

 

Add in the observed behavior that if you just wait longer than the visual timer tells you to, the take bug is less likely.

 

If that invisible object does one or more of the of the following.

 

  • A ) is on a different timer started when the object is created, so that it's creation could potentially be delayed by a lag spike while the visible timer has already started
  • B ) is created with a different value for time in some instances due to "Failure" having inconsistent handling of complexity
  • C ) uses a slightly different formula to calculate or use complexity to determine time remaining
  • D ) because it is a different object is subject to lag spikes causing different behavior in timing than the visible timer and widening the de-sync with the visual representation of time.
  • E ) the invisible timer is never actually started during a lag spike, because the creation of the invisible timer is skipped over the same way a player can experience skipping in the world when spikes happen. Visually the item finishes, but invisibly the item is never built.

 

then it is possible for the visual to be finished and attempt to "take" and item that still does not exist as far as the invisible timer object is concerned.

 

That may explain all the symptoms.

 

Experiment makes it worse by lengthening the time to build, making D) a high possibility.

Any experiments make A) a candidate.

Fails make C) a possibility.

 

Welp, that's what I got, good luck guys. 

 

Take bug starts at 

 

https://youtu.be/36KKcNzegok?t=203

 

Build 2 after abort

 

https://youtu.be/36KKcNzegok?t=290

 

It's a bit blurry, but you should be able to make out the '2' in that last ruin stone take.

 

You will also notice that the first blank was experimented on, and the second one was not, and they stacked anyway. (Should be different serial numbers).

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

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Would it be possible to make a different Crafting time between the server and the client?

 

For example the server crafting time for an item on the server would be 20 seconds while in the client it would be 24 seconds. So the item is finished allready on the server but on my screen im still crafting.

This way we could check if it has something to do with the client being out of sync.


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Ok I have put some thought into the Take bug and why it might be hard to track down.

Case 1 Experimentation copy/check is run separate/parallel from the item/check without an acknowledge.

 

How it would work:

Crafting window/system: says it's transferring new item

Inventory: says it's copying item

Inventory: goes through item copy/confirm routine

Copy/check system: Tells Experimentation copy/check to run ( BUT DOES NOT WAIT FOR AKNOWLEDGE)

Inventory: says it's done (experimentation check still running)

Crafting System: Sends item checksum/whatever,  deletes item. (Experiment check still running)

 

 

At this point it could fail for a number of reasons all because the Experimentation copy/check was not finished before the crafting system deleted the item.

It could fail a inventory anti duping check, it could just fail the read/write because the data isn't there anymore. 

 

 

Case2: Crafting system is poorly deleting items causing new items to be stored in a way the inventory transfer system is not expecting.

 

But due to the abort button not deleting the crafting inventory item as seen by the double crafted item bug if you abort at  the last stage. If this is the case when a item is fully crafted it may have remnants remaining in the crafting inventory (particularly around how the experimentation data is stored)

 

If the Experimentation data is not properly deleted then INVENTORY copy systems may be expecting a certain data structure that is not properly set up when it goes to copy the data.

 

 

Hopefully these ideas can help.


Jezvin

uXa

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Case2: Crafting system is poorly deleting items causing new items to be stored in a way the inventory transfer system is not expecting.

 

But due to the abort button not deleting the crafting inventory item as seen by the double crafted item bug if you abort at  the last stage. If this is the case when a item is fully crafted it may have remnants remaining in the crafting inventory (particularly around how the experimentation data is stored)

 

If the Experimentation data is not properly deleted then INVENTORY copy systems may be expecting a certain data structure that is not properly set up when it goes to copy the data.

 

 

Hopefully these ideas can help.

 

 

UPDATE case 2: Assuming Case 2 is what is going on the error would most likely be caused during an abort, a failure, or an experiment failure.

 

Because of this myself along with 1 other player have logged out after every Failure, abort, or experiment failure and so far (very small test case each person only made 1 complete weapon) it seems to be preventing take bug.

 

If anyone else wants to help test this, log out after every single failure Experiment failure or abort (remember potions need to be made and used again).

 

And report back.

 

suggestion:(craft 10 of each crafting potion then log out before starting this, I would expect potion failures would matter also)

Edited by Jezvin

Jezvin

uXa

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UPDATE case 2: Assuming Case 2 is what is going on the error would most likely be caused during an abort, a failure, or an experiment failure.

 

Because of this myself along with 1 other player have logged out after every Failure, abort, or experiment failure and so far (very small test case each person only made 1 complete weapon) it seems to be preventing take bug.

 

If anyone else wants to help test this, log out after every single failure Experiment failure or abort (remember potions need to be made and used again).

 

And report back.

 

suggestion:(craft 10 of each crafting potion then log out before starting this, I would expect potion failures would matter also)

I am the other person, I have crafted 2 great hilts and 2 pole maces doing this and no take bug yet. I will be making armor next

 

Eli uXa

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UPDATE case 2: Assuming Case 2 is what is going on the error would most likely be caused during an abort, a failure, or an experiment failure.

 

Because of this myself along with 1 other player have logged out after every Failure, abort, or experiment failure and so far (very small test case each person only made 1 complete weapon) it seems to be preventing take bug.

 

If anyone else wants to help test this, log out after every single failure Experiment failure or abort (remember potions need to be made and used again).

 

And report back.

 

suggestion:(craft 10 of each crafting potion then log out before starting this, I would expect potion failures would matter also)

Testing the opposite side of this, I deliberately watched how things behaved after an experiment failure.

 

After one failure, I had three take bugs in a row, regardless of the outcome of the next items experiments. There was no real server lag going on.

 

I also noticed that there is a delay in the transfer time on take if it's going to take bug,  that sometimes also happens after other failures that do not result the take bug happening.

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I think I may have found the cause of the take bug, or at least, what it is related to.

 

Since the new code went in, I have not had a single take bug. I have done crafting on different servers and different accounts. I hit the take button every time without waiting, all without issue. However, up until today, I had only crafted items that take up 1 horizontal slot in the inventory. Some items, like the basic sword and shield, take up 2 slots, but they are displayed vertically in the inventory.

 

Today I crafted a metal bar, which takes up 2 horizontal slots. I hit the take button and it went into my inventory. No problem. I then crafted a second metal bar, hit the take button, and it failed to appear in my inventory.

 

I will continue to craft and see if I get additional take bugs when crafting single slot items. It may be that my inventory is now "messed up" in some way, causing the bug to occur, but it seems that the root cause must be related to the multiple slot items.

 

Edit: I made a weapon shaft from the metal bar I had created earlier and there were no issues. I then crafted 5 metal bars. The 1st, 3rd, 4th and 5th all appeared in my inventory as expected. The 2nd failed to appear. After that, I created all the crafting potions, weapon head: mace, weapon pommel, weapon crossguard, stitched leather, weapon grip, weapon hilt and finally, the mace itself. No issues with any of them.

Edited by Arkade

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Gonna repost this here from the bugs forum:

 

TAKE BUG - I found a way to craft stuff that has completely avoided any take bugs so far. Usually I have a LOT of take bugs, I have lost more adv weapons to take bugs than successfuly obtained them, just ask my group. But since I started doing this, I have made 2 full adv weapons, 1 full set of adv armor and 5 or so metal bars without a single take bug. I know it's not a huge sample, but I'm putting this out there in case someone else wants to test it. Sorry, english is not my first language so I'll try to explain this the best way I can. 

 

Basically I make sure that whenever I hit "take" from the craft window, the inventory slot that will take the crafted item has not been used at all during that login session and was empty the whole time. So that means I relog several times in the course of crafting an adv weapon for example to make sure the top half of my inventory slots are always empty when I log on and start crafting. I push all the mats down to the bottom, make the pots and push them down again, then relog and craft all the metal bars. Then I reorganize everything, push all the metal bars down, make new pots and push them down, relog and start again with the next batch of parts. And so on. It's been working so far for me. 


 

 

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Gonna repost this here from the bugs forum:

 

TAKE BUG - I found a way to craft stuff that has completely avoided any take bugs so far. Usually I have a LOT of take bugs, I have lost more adv weapons to take bugs than successfuly obtained them, just ask my group. But since I started doing this, I have made 2 full adv weapons, 1 full set of adv armor and 5 or so metal bars without a single take bug. I know it's not a huge sample, but I'm putting this out there in case someone else wants to test it. Sorry, english is not my first language so I'll try to explain this the best way I can. 

 

Basically I make sure that whenever I hit "take" from the craft window, the inventory slot that will take the crafted item has not been used at all during that login session and was empty the whole time. So that means I relog several times in the course of crafting an adv weapon for example to make sure the top half of my inventory slots are always empty when I log on and start crafting. I push all the mats down to the bottom, make the pots and push them down again, then relog and craft all the metal bars. Then I reorganize everything, push all the metal bars down, make new pots and push them down, relog and start again with the next batch of parts. And so on. It's been working so far for me.

That takes it back to the possibility of it being related to the item ghosting images in the background.

 

However with the new inventory this does not seem to be happening anymore.  The background for items without a shadow is blank now.

 

That said, items can "stack" in spirit bank, so there is more than one item allowed to exist in a single inventory space in the data model.

 

8JQHyXX.jpg

 

EDIT:

 

Spoke to soon  Overlay image ghost still exists.  Can be see on crafting pots.

 

osKdkS6.jpg

 

Client restart gets rid of the ghost image.

HeiLyri.jpg

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

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I was crafting today and .. well yeah met the take bug but I then started to be a bit more systematic and wrote everything down ....

 

  • ​I had the most "take bugs" when I had transfered gear from the Spirit Bank to my Inventory (and it was still on the 2min CD)... as it started to come off the CDs, and I was taking my crafted items, they disappeared more often than in any other senario.

 

  • ​You can also make it bug when pulling items to the Spirit bank from your inventory... If the items in your inventory are comming off 2min cd, then the item you are dragging to the Spirit Bank can't be placed in the spirit bank.  You have to release it and pick it up again.  Then redrag it.  If in that timeframe yet another item comes off its 2min cd... well then you're back to square one.

Huginn ok Muninn, fljúga hverjan dag, Jörmungrund yfir; óumk ek of Hugin,, at hann aftr né komi-t, þó sjámk meir of Munin

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