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Grave digging - Official discussion thread

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Looks awesome!

 

I am a bit confused however regarding the bolded bits:

 

 

"Grave Digging is a slightly more advanced form of Harvesting, hence there is no basic form of this tool but instead there is the standard copper-to-gold tool progression that exists in the rest of the harvesting runestones.

 

...

Just like copper-to-gold nodes are tiered for difficulty, human-to-monster graves are tiered the same way. (It is a nice coincidence that there are five kinds of graves; that symmetry wasn’t actually a design goal.This means you will need to make better tools in order to harvest the more exotic graves."

 

This goes against the recent news regarding the new harvesting and tool system, which still has tiers, but no longer requires higher tier tools to harvest higher tier nodes. Was this text written before that change, or has there been another change? Some clarification would be appreciated - thank-you!

Edited by Anthrage

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Common-quality vessels will be obtainable (effortlessly) at the temples located across the game maps.

 

Common (green)? Why not Poor? Changing the whole quality levels for this profession only, will make it very confusing. Why not use just one mechanic?

 

 

Grave Digging is a slightly more advanced form of Harvesting, hence there is no basic form of this tool but instead there is the standard copper-to-gold tool progression that exists in the rest of the harvesting runestones.

 

Erhmm, doesn't this contradict the last update you did about harvesting? I thought we removed the whole tool progressions mechanic.

 

Somehow I get a feeling this post was written before the last update on harvesting. It uses old and different mechanics. While it is great to read this article, I would recommend rewriting it.

 

Also I would consider using the same exact mechanics as the other harvesting professions. I do not understand why it needs to be different for Grave Digging?


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Beaten to the "WTF on tiered harvesting tools" question, but it bears repeating.

 

The move to temples for respawning is cool - I hope they're well spread out and rare.  I am interested in seeing how long it takes to return to combat after a death given the temple respawn mechanics.  In CWs where your vessel isn't able to be taken as loot, how do you get back to your body after death if you don't summon it?  Do you fly to it in Crow form?

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My only question is:

 

Are you not creating a fundamental issue in value of these resources? 

 

Obviously the human would be the most consumed, hence the more valuable resource.

 

It sort of goes back to my question of why are we spawning whole body parts? It does not make sense to me to require a bunch of heads to make another head.

 

Why not just harvest a grave for bone, sinew, ligaments, cartilage, etc. 

 

Then from these you create body parts. 

 

Also, it eliminates the issue you already fixed by having 1 head per grave, its not a issue if you are looking for raw materials.

 

Again, you dont mine sword blades from a Ore node.

 

Perhaps theres a 'break down' stage thats missing and not shown to us, that brings it together.

Edited by Vectious

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My only question is:

 

Are you not creating a fundamental issue in value of these resources? 

Yeah, I don't get it either, but if this is old information, maybe that part has changed too.

 

There are 6 human archetypes out of 13. Ostensibly, there will need to be 6 times as many human parts compared to any other race. Maybe that is why you can get human parts in monster graves, but then you've got 4 different types in 1 grave, making monster parts harder to get. 

 

On the other hand, I can understand not having different grave types for every race, especially if they add more races in the future. It was originally proposed that each graveyard would be for a specific race, though that may not be a great solution either as nearly half of the graveyards would need to be human.

Edited by Arkade

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Why not just harvest a grave for bone, sinew, ligaments, cartilage, etc. 

 

You can get blood and bone from animals already, so I imagine this system will come in at some point. Strange it hasn't been elaborated on, it takes a lot more than blood and bone to make a body part. It's not clear how skinners are going to contribute to necromancy. What's unique about the gathering class is (I hope) that you can contribute to two different crafting professions. I suppose the trade off would be that you can't find good graves everywhere, but you can find good animals everywhere, all while getting skin too, but crafting a raw body part from sinew (which you can't get from animals yet), blood, bone, etc. takes more effort.

 

Would be great to see this... fleshed out.

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I really like all this, and especially the fact than grave digging gets out of standard harvesting (a bit like would be other future harvesting lines, like the one required for Masonry, I suppose).

 

However, I am a bit puzzled by the grave distribution (but don't get me wrong, I love the art concept so far).

- Monster / Myrms, Legos, Stalkers

- Guinecean / Duelists

- Elven / Assassins, Frostweavers

- Human / Knights, Confessors, Rangers, Templars, Champions, Druids

- Stoneborn / Forgemasters

 

graves_wm-1024x375.jpg

 

Meaning by that, I don't understand why the Guineceans or Forgemasters have a nice tomb of their own, When Minotaurs, Centaurs, and Elkens have a stone with 2 pieces of wood (and are accounting for 3 archetypes). Or Humans have a sad stone block (and are accounting for 6 archetypes).

 

I am not asking that the number of tomb populating the world represent an equal ratio for every archetype, because the compositions and the game itself will create different needs for each type of grave, thus creating a specific demand and offer, making the market.

 

But first, I think that Myrms, Legos and Stalkers deserve their culture, and their own tomb. I know you may add other archetypes in the future, and maybe for their races, or that it may be explained by the lore (please don't tell me that), but come on, it would increase the number of different tombs, yes, but that would enrich the game IMO, and if grave digging is an advanced harvesting, I think players could handle a couple more tombs to be recognized.

 

Last, a little bit of off topic, Guineceans, Elkens, Centaurs and Mynotaurs are referred to by "others", "beasts", "animals", "monsters", etc. Which is a bit confusing when it comes to know if we are talking about world monsters and beasts, or the race of the archetypes. I ain't much of a RP players, but we could come up with a better term. I know both science-fiction and fantasy litterature came up with terms do define humanoids animals, or partly-human beasts, we can definitely find out something nice.

 

We could use a generic term, like "Hybrids" (Underworld), or use a broad mythological creature's name, and adjective it, like "Chimeras" (Pierre Bordage Fantasy). I personally prefer the later.

Edited by Eaden

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This goes against the recent news regarding the new harvesting and tool system, which still has tiers, but no longer requires higher tier tools to harvest higher tier nodes. Was this text written before that change, or has there been another change? Some clarification would be appreciated - thank-you!

 

Speculation: maybe both articles are accurate. The initial grave digging implementation (possibly to be seen this weekend in 3.10.3) could use the current tiered resource system. Meanwhile the revamped un-tiered resource system is in development and will go into effect later (say, version 4.0) for all resources, including gravedigging.

 

EDIT: Glad to be wrong, sounds like we'll be getting the harvesting revamp sooner than I expected.

Edited by Avloren

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Speculation: maybe both articles are accurate. The initial grave digging implementation (possibly to be seen this weekend in 3.10.3) could use the current tiered resource system. Meanwhile the revamped un-tiered resource system is in development and will go into effect later (say, version 4.0) for all resources, including gravedigging.

That doesn't really make sense. Even if they intended to patch in grave digging before the harvesting changes (which I don't believe to be the case), there's no reason to give us information that will be out of date in a week or two. 

 

They've said the harvesting changes will be in the next big update and the patch notes indicated that all the big changes are in the next milestone. I don't see them adding anything significant until that update. Hopefully the next patch will be 4.1 instead of 3.10.3.

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Beaten to the "WTF on tiered harvesting tools" question, but it bears repeating.

 

The move to temples for respawning is cool - I hope they're well spread out and rare.  I am interested in seeing how long it takes to return to combat after a death given the temple respawn mechanics.  In CWs where your vessel isn't able to be taken as loot, how do you get back to your body after death if you don't summon it?  Do you fly to it in Crow form?

I would be even more interested to know if we as players can construct Temples in our player cities, and allow us the choice to re-spawn in the wild, or re-spawn at our city.


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Grave Digging follows all the new rules from the harvesting redux.  There is no tiering of tools nor tiering of Grave types.

Unfortunately this was written weeks ago before I had made all those changes. (downside to trying to get ahead on our weekly content drops) We are going to replace those sections of the content drop to avoid confusing people.

 

My only question is:

 

Are you not creating a fundamental issue in value of these resources? 

 

Obviously the human would be the most consumed, hence the more valuable resource.

 

It sort of goes back to my question of why are we spawning whole body parts? It does not make sense to me to require a bunch of heads to make another head.

 

Why not just harvest a grave for bone, sinew, ligaments, cartilage, etc. 

 

Then from these you create body parts. 

 

Also, it eliminates the issue you already fixed by having 1 head per grave, its not a issue if you are looking for raw materials.

 

Again, you dont mine sword blades from a Ore node.

 

Perhaps theres a 'break down' stage thats missing and not shown to us, that brings it together.

 

There are many more Human nodes in the map than anything else. Also Monster GY's also drop Human parts since Legionnaire is largely human, and elkin and minos are largely Human except for their legs and heads.

I tried an even lower level of bones, cartilage, muscle in one of my early drafts of the system and frankly it crossed too many lines. Where we ended up is a good in between. (thankfully you also missed the "moist" stage of vessel crafting as well)

 

I will talk more about this system and demo it tomorrow morning on the Live Stream. So be sure to stop by!


Thomas Blair
ArtCraft Entertainment, Inc.
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