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Death, respawning and you - Official discussion thread

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Without reading all of the other posts, a simple "temple Camping" fix.

 

-Temple is set as an invulmerable area with a protective shield around it. This shield prevents any attack types from coming into or out of the Temple.

 

- Once the player has chosen a new vessel and is ready to go out into the world, they step on a teleporter circle somewhere in the Temple.

This teleporter then randomly selects an x,y,z coordinate to drop them (within "min X range" to "max X range" of the specific temple)

 

This method could also be used when the campaign first starts to drop players all over the world, instead of at specific temples/ spawn points. Making it all that more difficult to group up.

 

It doesn`t work, m8. An experience guild like the old KGB guild will have units just outside the protective area in the pvp zone where u can be attacked again - so it`ll be hard to escape the safe area let`s say in a siege event.

I believe the best method is to be completely invisible let us say for 3 minutes - so the person will have a chance to get away and explore the map or go back to crafting, or run back to the siege event without anyone knows his/her location from the temple area. It has nothing to do with corpse camping, but it could be a viable tactic in a siege scenario where most guys ends up dead will probably spawn to the nearest temple where a siege is active for instant. 

 

And the temple camping might be a viable tactic to prevent attackers to get back into the siege event - so long the siege window is active, and it has nothing to do with corpse camping if u understand me. The defenders might do it to save the city from a hostile siege window.

Edited by mythx

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Crowfall Game Client: https://www.crowfall.com/en/client/

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We're crows, so why not stick us in the sky above a cloud layer?  The only thing we could see is our corpse, and the nearest few temples.   Once you get there, you have a radius of so many meters to see if it's a good choice.  If not, just fly to the next one.  This allows a corpse run *and* a choice of a few temples.

 

Besides, why make us a bird form if the extent of your flying is hovering a few feet off the ground? ;P

 

Awesome idea. If this could be done it would feel very contextual.

 

High up in the sky and you see icons for the 5 nearest temples. You click one and woosh, off you go on auto-pilot. No scouting around.

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We're crows, so why not stick us in the sky above a cloud layer?  The only thing we could see is our corpse, and the nearest few temples.   Once you get there, you have a radius of so many meters to see if it's a good choice.  If not, just fly to the next one.  This allows a corpse run *and* a choice of a few temples.

 

Besides, why make us a bird form if the extent of your flying is hovering a few feet off the ground? ;P

I would rather that temples just have crow only portals to other temples.  That top down view may give away exploration clues.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyTYVYeoNTU

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That's the other side of the equation, reward.

 

From what I have seen so far, they are going to have to seriously up the reward side of the equation for the dregs, given the greater likely hood of getting absolutely nothing from the harder crafting attempts, or having all that hard work stolen, or simply not being able to import the goods taken from the dregs into other bands.

 

Doing flips on the top of a tall building is probably a huge adrenaline rush, but if the odds of splattering on the ground at the end are too high from a single screw up, most will get their adrenaline rush from something less likely to kill you.

Part of what makes EvE run is the fact that once you have required the resources you WILL create an item.  It's about supply and demand, not waiting to see if some crazy RNG blesses your crafting that day.

 

People will gladly lose everything they have earned, if there is a guaranteed way to farm it back; look to EvE.  However with the current crafting, and current issues with take bugs, failures being abnormally high, resources being rare, I don't see a lot of guaranteed crafting.

 

The dregs shouldn't be about harder resources, rather they should be the lawless lands like 0.0 in EvE, where it's FFA.  Yes there will be higher tier resources, but that is not the biggest draw.  Then God's reach is like low-sec and the EKs are like hi-sec.  It's a good recipe to follow.  But like in EvE where trit is found everywhere and in some cases the bulk of it comes from hi-sec, we should also have a bulk of goods coming from the EKs and outer bands, and moving into the inner bands; but this isn't the place to get into why the current embargo system is flawed.

 

With easy to replace vessels, players will more readily flock to death in the dregs.  But if the work to obtain higher tier vessels doesn't match with their time available, then base vessels will be common.  This is why I stated earlier that I feel like vessels and discs should be outside of the loot rules, so players will much more readily jump into the dregs PvP, without having to make it a zerg fest.


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Currently you have to wait until someone "releases" before you can loot them. Is that intentional?

 

In the article it says this:

 

 

  • Immediately upon death, the spirit crow will disconnect from the vessel and float above it. This allows you the chance to observe the area from the corpse’s perspective for a brief period of time.
  • During that time, other players will have a chance to resurrect you and bring this avatar back to life.
  • At the end of the time – or any time prior, if the player elects to click the “Release” button – the spirit crow can be untethered from this vessel and will be automatically summoned to the nearest temple.

 

 

During this time, the opposing team can loot the corpse. The degree to which they can be looted, of course, will vary based on the campaign rules for that particular campaign. (Some worlds allow full looting, some are more limited).

 
The victors should perform any looting quickly because when the dead player summons that corpse to a temple, the opportunity to loot will be lost.

 

So it sounds like for a short time after a person dies, they're still attached to the corpse and it can be looted at that time. But once they release, they are no longer lootable. So I wonder if it would potentially be a very short looting time if the player releases quickly and has a friend standing near or on their corpse until then.

 

It also honestly sounds like every other game. The one exception is that once you release the body disappears it sounds like, whereas in other games it would stay on the ground allowing people to loot it for a while until you got back.

Edited by Leiloni

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Part of what makes EvE run is the fact that once you have required the resources you WILL create an item.  It's about supply and demand, not waiting to see if some crazy RNG blesses your crafting that day.

 

People will gladly lose everything they have earned, if there is a guaranteed way to farm it back; look to EvE.  However with the current crafting, and current issues with take bugs, failures being abnormally high, resources being rare, I don't see a lot of guaranteed crafting.

 

The dregs shouldn't be about harder resources, rather they should be the lawless lands like 0.0 in EvE, where it's FFA.  Yes there will be higher tier resources, but that is not the biggest draw.  Then God's reach is like low-sec and the EKs are like hi-sec.  It's a good recipe to follow.  But like in EvE where trit is found everywhere and in some cases the bulk of it comes from hi-sec, we should also have a bulk of goods coming from the EKs and outer bands, and moving into the inner bands; but this isn't the place to get into why the current embargo system is flawed.

 

With easy to replace vessels, players will more readily flock to death in the dregs.  But if the work to obtain higher tier vessels doesn't match with their time available, then base vessels will be common.  This is why I stated earlier that I feel like vessels and discs should be outside of the loot rules, so players will much more readily jump into the dregs PvP, without having to make it a zerg fest.

 

Making higher vessels hard to keep wouldn't really work well. The main reason being that people will want to spend all their time in a Promotion Class Vessel. Beyond that, the higher stat caps gained from higher tier vessels are going to be pretty important. As someone in this thread already said, these are the types of character customization and progression things that should be more permanent. I'm not sure being able to loot them would work. Decay over time is fine because as he said, you can prepare for that by creating another one before it runs out. But allowing them to be too easily lost via looting would harm some of integral character systems. Nobody wants to run around the game playing a character that feels like level 1.

Edited by Leiloni

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So it sounds like for a short time after a person dies, they're still attached to the corpse and it can be looted at that time. But once they release, they are no longer lootable. So I wonder if it would potentially be a very short looting time if the player releases quickly and has a friend standing near or on their corpse until then.

 

Whereas my personal experience was that they were NOT lootable at that time. They became lootable after they released.

 

How it works in game right now does not follow exactly what is written in this update, and so I am looking for clarification.


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I think they should make this part of the territorial control game.

 

You set your re-spawn point to a temple under your teams control.  If you lose control, you still spawn there until you re-home.

 

Then guarding/attacking temples becomes a critical part of your team strategy.

 

I also don't think ACE should work too hard preventing people and teams from being literally pushed out of a world. Once your team is on the losing end of a slippery slope, moving onto a new campaign should be a definitive choice. 

 

We are supposed to win/lose worlds in this game.

 

Yes, I`m aware it`s territorial control in campaigns in Crowfall, but I think it should be difficult to attack players who died recently so the player have a chance to recover and relocate. Maybe add more death spawn locations like inside a castle or a friendly village - not just in the wilderness and at the temple locations. And perhaps it should be possible to craft sleeping beds aka Conan Exiles which u can have in your inventory and place it out in the world, but it could be exploited somewhat in a siege event. Just placed tons of spawning beds on the edge of the map near a siege for instant where u end up and you can bind your location on the map.

 

Second thought, I don`t think to craft sleeping beds is a flawless system in a Crowfall campaign with thousends of players in the same campaign though - so go for Temples and friendly cities/castles as death spawn points.  

Edited by mythx

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Crowfall Game Client: https://www.crowfall.com/en/client/

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Part of what makes EvE run is the fact that once you have required the resources you WILL create an item.  It's about supply and demand, not waiting to see if some crazy RNG blesses your crafting that day.

RNG won't be a big deal to trained crafters. 

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We're crows, so why not stick us in the sky above a cloud layer?  The only thing we could see is our corpse, and the nearest few temples.   Once you get there, you have a radius of so many meters to see if it's a good choice.  If not, just fly to the next one.  This allows a corpse run *and* a choice of a few temples.

 

Besides, why make us a bird form if the extent of your flying is hovering a few feet off the ground? ;P

 

I was thinking about something like this as well but it sounded like more work.


"Float like a Butterfly.... Sting like a Misplaced Decimal Point" - Xarrayne 2018

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More often than anyone crafting anything high level would want to. RNG is definitely involved. How bad will it be for a maxed out crafting using up a limited blueprint run? We don't know yet.

 

How often do you fail while using crafting potions?

 

AFAIK, items made from blueprints won't fail, but could be wrong on that.

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Not that different from what the original UO did, seemed to work fine then.

 

We're crows, so why not stick us in the sky above a cloud layer?  The only thing we could see is our corpse, and the nearest few temples.   Once you get there, you have a radius of so many meters to see if it's a good choice.  If not, just fly to the next one.  This allows a corpse run *and* a choice of a few temples.

 

Besides, why make us a bird form if the extent of your flying is hovering a few feet off the ground? ;P

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1) Great news ACE !

 

2) I'm just curious to know (when the time comes) how you'll deal with respawn during sieges/big-scale battles. I leave that in your capable hands :)

3) Aren't 10 sec a bit too short for people to loot your corpse if they are, say, still in the middle of a big fight ? My group of thugs gank on a group of harvesters and their guards. Being lesser trained in battle, the harvesters (with all the good stuff) die first and the thugs have to then kill the guards to calmly collect the loot but by the time they are done, the loot has vanished (called back to the owner at the Temple).

Figures can be adjusted, but a system where you : 

- can't be looted in the first 10 sec (you could be resurrected, so you need your gear)

- can't recall your body before 30 sec (more time to loot for attackers)

- automatically leave 20% of all your stuff (depending on rule-set) if nobody had time to loot you ('cause aforementioned fight)

... would be a bit fairer for the robbers.

 


4) I agree with the others, we should have more possibilities to choose from at respawn : Capture a POI (my best guess a Castle) that will create a territory around it (you don't actually capture the Temple, it just falls into your territory). Any Temple in your army's combined territory can be used to respawn in it (but enemies can too if its the closest Temple). That way you have more options and can either respawn in safer areas or the closest to your place of demise (and the closest to an ongoing battle ?). Whatever, this can't be implemented yet but maybe in the future ?

 

Food for thoughts ? Still a great idea ACE though, can't wait for the next update !

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Speaking from experience, Temple camping, or organized efforts to prevent the fallen from getting back to a battlefield, will be a thing, and a problem. An approach to consider would be to give players the tools to deal with this problem, not just to try to avoid it. One possible method? A limited Summon power. Another? One-way portals - allow players to spawn, rally, gear and buff at Temples/a.k.a. SB Ruins, and let them use a portal as Vessels to a random portal exit somewhere in the world.

 

Whatever approach is taken, it should be based on the assumption that players will manifest the dedication, stamina and sociopathy needed to camp every Temple on a map if necessary.

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This is really an overly complex system.

 

Does death, resurrection and crafting a vessel really need to be so complex that you have to tab out of the game and scour a wiki to get through the entire process?

 

I really think you guys are overestimating how welcoming your player base will be when faced with how complex every little thing is starting to become. As soon as necromancy was announced along with losing / corpse decay, I said, thats gonna get old real quick.

 

Way too complex for a passive part of the game (death)....make combat fun and complex, make castle sieges fun and complex. For the love of crap, stop focusing on making death complex! 

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@Toadwart I assume u never played shadowbane - death system is complex within a campaign with thousend of players online, and it`s essential

that ACE get death respawn right in the beginning when they start to implement campaigns. Because siege events are key elements in that setting - so where players spawn from death is very important in siege windows in a campaign from a strategic point of view in a larger picture. 

 

And that`s why I`m against in-game player summon spells - so large number of players can relocate far distances with a spell, because in an active siege window - such in-game feature has a huge strategic impact on any given campaign world guild wise. And the death system is important as well in a campaign with so many players online in the same world competing against each other trying to win a campaign. 

Edited by mythx

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Crowfall Game Client: https://www.crowfall.com/en/client/

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