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Constant skill training and crafter interdependency


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In the beginning of the game, there will be no crafters.  All of us crafter types will be putting out as much basic stuff as we can, trading for resources, or maybe even starting with resource harvesting skills instead of pushing immediately toward our chosen profession (something I'm considering).

 

In a couple months we'll start seeing the first masters of various parts of the crafts appear.  Maybe a stone mason will have pushed all the way up in as much building stuff as he can.  Or maybe a blacksmith has focused on making the best possible sword blades.  These guys will eventually push hard and max out their tree, maybe a few months, maybe a year or more depending on how the skills shake out.

 

But then what happens after that?  You're now a master blacksmith, you even went back and trained all the master crafting basic skills for giggles.  You've got your merchant stuff and your mass production tree.   Well you could train combat skills, but you're a crafter.  The natural progression, and what any reasonable crafter would think, is to eliminate some of the items you have to buy from other professions.  Now we're a couple years into the game (or however long) and we've got crafters that are masters of multiple crafting disciplines.

 

Fast forward 5 years down the line(which isn't unreasonable for a long running MMO at all) , and you've got this massive merchant who crafts almost everything, and doesn't have to rely on anyone but his resource suppliers.   In my mind, this destroys the economy.  An economy is generated by goods and money moving between people.  If you've got a few day 1 crafters in serious need of an anti-trust lawsuit it really makes it so that newer players in the game don't have much of a chance to become real contributing members to the economy.

 

Maybe I am overthinking this too much and assuming the game sees a good post-launch growth like EvE or other player driven games like it, this won't be an issue.  It just seems to me that there is currently no system in place to prevent a dedicated crafter from doing absolutely everything. This might be a problem for combat players too, but I couldn't really comment on that because I really am not interested in the game for a lot of the fighting.  

 

In SWG pre-nge I was a master weaponsmith.  After the SWG dark age (the year or two after NGE release) I was a master beast crafter/mutation discoverer.   5 or even 10 years down the line in Crowfall, will we be masters of one profession that players seek out just to get a peek at our best wares, or will every player have master crafted goods in every discipline littering the shops of the Eternal Kingdoms?  Will we need to take in a bunch of support players into a campaign world?  Or just that one guy in your guild that has them all and make sure he's set up with all the thralls and workshop he needs to supply the whole army?

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expansions, updates, more stuff if we get beyond year 2...   that would mean we have steady pop, the boxes are still selling and the game is robust.   JTC talked about this...

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                                                        Sugoi - Senpai

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SW:G (pre-NGE) avoided the issue by having a limited number of points that a player could spend across any/all professions.

 

So if you mastered an advanced class you didn't have enough points to master the others. The catch with SW:G was that the "skills" took xp to unlock so it was very much a resource grind.

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CoE stops this issue by just resetting everyone every year. But I dont see this work with the idea of Crowfall^^

So yea, I guess, one day in the far future, if the game is still running and healthy, there will be crafters that just craft everything and no one else will be needed anymore as long as enough ressources are available or crafting takes huge amounts of time (which it does not look like actually as you can let thralls do the mass production which should be the most time consuming thing).

If crafting was a full-time-job, which it is irl, that alone would stop one player from crafting everything for everyone.

But players tend to call that 'not fun' and want to play a game and just play it and not craft the whole day. To me, it would be fine, if crafting took the whole day. I'm here for crafting anyway and not for the fighting part.

Edited by Gromschlog
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The answer is to continue adding new skills, disciplines and calsses, with skills and disciplines being the easiest to implement as they don't need to worry about character models.

 

Keep in mind, is there any other MMO (aside from eve online which also uses time based training) in which you WOULDNT have maxed out pretty much every skill and ability you have after 5 years of play?  Most MMO's these days have people maxing out there characters after just a few weeks.  In collage when I was addicted to WoW I had 7 different classes all at max level and with raid gear, with pretty much every profession in the game covered, and that was in less than 2 years of play.

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I think it's fine. If the game is successful and continues to grow for x years i imagine there will be new players etc who need cheaper goods that newer crafters can provide for them. You as master crafter will likely spend your time experimenting and creating premium items, not mass produced lower quality ones. You may also consider delving into gathering and combat if only to make yourself even less reliant on suppliers.

 

As for relying on a single crafter, that would be a bad idea because if that person decides to quit. Or is sick or busy with work etc all of a sudden your guild is completely screwed. Much better to have multiple of everything

Edited by Luthair
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I realize now this post didn't have much of a point, just kinda rambling worries about a game with no caps on the amount of skills you could learn.   Thanks for the comments guys, I realize its hard to comment on an idea that has few salient points but I appreciate it.

Honestly, this is an oft-repeated concern, and the reality is that we have no real way to know for sure until it happens. I appreciate the worry and doubly appreciate the understanding that not every concern can be easily laid to rest.

 

That said, we have some very clever and experienced developers and some very dedicated gamers all working together to try and ensure that your worst case scenario never happens. Beyond that, all we can do is keep trying.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle#Pre-alpha <--this is where we are. If your complaint is that the game don't not works good, come back later.

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I realize now this post didn't have much of a point, just kinda rambling worries about a game with no caps on the amount of skills you could learn.   Thanks for the comments guys, I realize its hard to comment on an idea that has few salient points but I appreciate it.

 

You have good instincts in my view. 

 

To me crafting is where the meaningful decisions about what defines a given "character" will be made under the current design. I'll be crafting and I still don't like that at all.

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