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mivius

Why do Woodworkers get the "short end of the stick"?

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I have at this point crafted a good number of items.

 

I understand this is pre-alpha and subject to adjustment.  However, considering the empirical evidence, I have a concern about woodworking.

 

What I have likely crafted the most of, or attempted to, are confessor books. I have spent innumerable hours out collecting from chests, and trees, and rocks for these attempts.

 

While I am far from the only person to raise the concern about the sheer number of materials required to put a book together versus other crafted pieces (among other issues), something nagged at the back of my mind that just felt wrong....then Necromancy came in and something clicked...

 

Woodworker has far too many inter-dependencies.

 

To make leather armor I can craft everything without having to use another craft class.

 

As a Blacksmith you do not require any more than one dependency for any given item, and in fact often have a choice as to whether or not you want to use a Leather worker or Wood worker for the piece(s).

 

Without going through all of them, all other classes require zero, or at most one other tradeskill dependency on another tradeskill class (the epiphany came at looking at necromancy recipes only ever needing alchy...)- except Rune maker specifically and only when they are making Wood Worker components...

 

I looked at the Woodworker recipe I had no experience with (Druid Staff), and saw that it took several interaction through Rune maker to make the sigils...

 

Arrows require a blacksmith...

 

In fact, I couldn't find a single items that required just Wood Working outside some of the components...

 

But the book...the book exemplifies how bad it is...

 

You need a Clasp!...which is blacksmith, using a blacksmithing subcomponent! (ie all metal)

 

You need a Binding!...this is as close to 'woodworking' as we actually get...2 planks...and stitched leather...so you need a leather worker..

 

You need Bound Chapters!...hahah...so you need a lacing sinew from Leather working...and then you need four bound chapters...each chapter is a metal bar, so x4, from Blacksmith, and x4 stitched leather again from leather worker...and the four chapters are a Rune maker subcombine...

 

So in total that is...

Six (6) dependencies from a blacksmith for one attempt

Six (6) dependencies from a leather worker for one attempt

Four (4) dependencies from a Rune maker for one attempt

 

So that is 14 dependencies vs 1 (some of the metal armor might have taken 2 from leather worker, but I believe most is still just 1) or 0 for any other single finished product combine.....14 vs 0/1....

 

In all of that the Wood Worker does a total of five (5) of the combines (two planks, the binding, the chapters, final combine of all pieces)...this piece requires 20 total combines...of which the Wood Worker has 'control' over 5...25%? Really? 

 

This doesn't even remotely cover the added in frustration over other underlying mechanics that make this extra harsh...but this whole scheme seems way out of whack versus any other tradeskill...

 

TL;DR

 

Wood Worker requires extremely more dependencies on other tradeskill classes, and is out of 'whack' with all other tradeskills.

 

 

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Im sure its because they haven't finished or finalized all the recipes.

 

Its a first draft, some may (hopefully) disappear all together. 

 

Also, i think they are trying to find some sort of balance of interdependencies across all the crafting lines. Its going to be difficult to balance it for each one, almost as difficult as combat i would imagine. 

 

 

 

Its been awhile since they made a pass at it however, good information here.


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As someone training woodworking, I agree with you.

 

Way too many dependent professions. The whole system needs a trip back to the white board (Well, not the base crafting system. It's solid. But the skill training and some of the dependencies).

Solid once that 6 month journey with the take bug is finally laid to rest. :)

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I dont think they should change what makes sense. Of course you need metal to make arrows, it is not like they are making stuff up on purpose.

 

Also this a BIG part of the game, having to ask for help (or buy stuff) moves the economy and makes the world feel real. You are awesome with wood but still need friends (AKA connections) to make stuff.

 

It may seem bad right now (where people are kinda forced to solo) but in the live game it wont be too bad. You can think that you will influence a lot of fields.

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I dont think they should change what makes sense. Of course you need metal to make arrows, it is not like they are making stuff up on purpose.

 

Also this a BIG part of the game, having to ask for help (or buy stuff) moves the economy and makes the world feel real. You are awesome with wood but still need friends (AKA connections) to make stuff.

 

It may seem bad right now (where people are kinda forced to solo) but in the live game it wont be too bad. You can think that you will influence a lot of fields.

Interdependence on other professions is good; but when the only profession that drastically needs all other professions is the woodworker then the system is faulty.

 

Right now as I understand it, the woodworker is dependent on other professions, but those other professions are not dependent on the woodworker.

 

Now the good thing in this if I was a woodworker, is I would gouge the market and collaborate with other woodworkers to not take less than 300% for making items.

Edited by Teufel

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Do all the tradeskills need to be equally convenient, or is it ok for some skills to be harder than others leading to lower populations and thus higher profits for those willing to put in the greater effort?


Official "Bad Person" of Crowfall

"I think 1/3rd of my postcount is telling people that we aren't turning into a PvE / casual / broad audience game." -

Tully

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Do all the tradeskills need to be equally convenient, or is it ok for some skills to be harder than others leading to lower populations and thus higher profits for those willing to put in the greater effort?

There is a sub issue with this, and highlighted by the book example.

 

Should it be equally difficult for each archetype to get the basic equipment they use?

 

If the answer is no, then people should be informed that the confessor archetype is in for a rough ride getting good gear compared to other classes.

 

If the answer is yes, what advantage do they get for the extra difficulty?

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If the answer is yes, what advantage do they get for the extra difficulty?

Confessor is very powerful atm, maybe it's like an attempt to balance them somehow :)

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Think of it this way, if people hear wood working is the most difficult professions they will probably aim to learn some of the easier ones first, which puts you at an advantage of having less competition.

 

And yea, I expect them to change the recipes and add new ones before launch so we'll probably be in a different state then.  There are also some crafting trees that aren't even in the game yet like alchemy, and that could change things as well.

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Think of it this way, if people hear wood working is the most difficult professions they will probably aim to learn some of the easier ones first, which puts you at an advantage of having less competition.

 

And yea, I expect them to change the recipes and add new ones before launch so we'll probably be in a different state then.  There are also some crafting trees that aren't even in the game yet like alchemy, and that could change things as well.

 

Really it's socially more difficult, not mechanically, so it may be that is appeals to those types of players that seek interdependence more than others.

 

They have to handle it in a different way, and make sure that when people come looking for the parts they need, like rune blanks, parchment, arrows, etc, they strike up trade channels rather than just sell the stuff.

 

I'm not even close to a social player, so it would be the last profession I would be interested in, but if all you want to do it play the crafting game, it may be the best place to start, in order to develop trading networks.

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I think Woodworking will become more valuable once we get buildings and siege weapons.

 

Unless I'm mistaken, the OP wasn't questioning the value of the woodworker, he was trying to drive home the apparent lopsidedness where it was more interdependent than the other tradeskills.  and I am inclined to agree.  even for housing/Siege  Smiths for nails and clamps, leatherworkers for sinue and hides, etc.

 

however,  I have not yet gone too far down the rabbit crafting hole,  and I do think that after a brief period of adjustment ( like when the devs finish all the vessel templates), I think that the crafting balance is in line to be evaluated.


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This is a good look at the early interdependence of woodworking. Great job bringing this to light, as it will help the designer of the crafting system.

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