Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
Propaganda

Too much survival game not enough sandbox.

Recommended Posts

Yea they did.

 

Yes you should be reliant on others for many if not most things, but you should also be able to be self reliant in a couple of areas as well.

 

I can fully understand and agree with forced alliance for equipment, group events, component crafting, etc.  I just don't think that should have as much, and in the case of vessels even more, forced social interaction in character definition. I would be fine if every crow was fully capable of crafting their own vessels, and have suggested a couple of times that each vessel archetype crafting be pulled into the AT training line instead of living in universal.

 

I just really don't like the idea of needing someone else to roll my characters/vessels basic attributes. 

 

It would be like letting your DM roll your stats for you, or only let you pick a few pre-built characters to play.  It's fine for a one off session, but not really a preferred way to run a campaign.

Did you watch todays Q&A yet? We still have full control over the stats that go in our Vessels.  

 

"Hey crafter guy I want a Dex Templar, here the mats and/or payment" "Hey Crafter guy I want a Knight with stats x,y,z in 1,2,3 amounts.." "Hey I want a Myrm with stats x,y,z, I'll go look at players markets for ones that match up to what I want"

Edited by pang

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did you watch todays Q&A yet? We still have full control over the stats that go in our Vessels.  

 

"Hey crafter guy I want a Dex Templar, here the mats and/or payment" "Hey Crafter guy I want a Knight with stats x,y,z in 1,2,3 amounts.." "Hey I want a Myrm with stats x,y,z, I'll go look at players markets for ones that match up to what I want"

Wasn't up when I posted, but now I have, didn't change much for me.

 

And they (crafter guy) have to succeed the checks, and they get to chose how they preform the experimentation phase, and it's their results that determines how well your character turns out.

 

Fundamentally I don't really like that part, which is why I would much prefer that the specific archetype necromancy appear in each archetype line.  To be the best Duelist in the world, I don't like having to rely in finding the best necromancer in the world.  

 

It's just psychologically different having to go visit Frankenstein to get a new body, than it is having to go visit Hattori Hanzo to get the best sword.  With a crappy sword I am still the best swordsman in the world, with a crappy body, I'm not, even if numerically the difference is identical.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wasn't up when I posted, but now I have, didn't change much for me.

 

And they (crafter guy) have to succeed the checks, and they get to chose how they preform the experimentation phase, and it's their results that determines how well your character turns out.

 

Fundamentally I don't really like that part, which is why I would much prefer that the specific archetype necromancy appear in each archetype line.  To be the best Duelist in the world, I don't like having to rely in finding the best necromancer in the world.  

 

It's just psychologically different having to go visit Frankenstein to get a new body, than it is having to go visit Hattori Hanzo to get the best sword.  With a crappy sword I am still the best swordsman in the world, with a crappy body, I'm not, even if numerically the difference is identical.

 

*shrugs* No offense meant but just seems a bit nitpicky to me. I mean if everything the crafter has control over is based on instructions we give and the mats we give them when placing the order.... Then yeah just seems like quibbling over the fact that you personally are not the one clicking the buttons, when the end result will be pretty much the same.

Edited by pang

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

*shrugs* No offense meant but just seems a bit nitpicky to me. I mean if everything the crafter has control over is based on instructions we give and the mats we give them when placing the order.... Then yeah just seems like quibbling over the fact that you personally are not the one clicking the buttons, when the end result will be pretty much the same.

 

Well, the assumption here is that you can even find such a crafter, and that they will work with you. Remember each vessel is "hand crafted", no "factories".

 

Did you catch the part in the video where they said "you will start with zero pips"? Basically, unless you are willing to spend time on training crafting vessels, you won't even have a shot at the process yourself.

 

There is one number that has never really been discussed.  What is the minimum number of players required to "support" each other to reach the pinnacle in every endeavor.  

 

Or put another way.  For a guild to be completely self sufficient, how many different professions need to be represented in that guild? 

 

Every guild that wants self sufficiency will need (after a year or more of dedicated universal training).

 

  • Harvester/Animal (5X)
  • Harvester/Wood (5X)
  • Harvester/Stone (5X)
  • Harvester/Ore (5X)
  • Harvester/Grave 
  • Craft/Leather
  • Craft/Wood
  • Craft/Smith
  • Craft/Vessel
  • Craft/Siege
  • Craft/Buildings
  • Craft/Runes
  • Craft/Alchemy
  • ....

It's an important number, it really really matters. Right now the smallest viable guild is from just that list 13, and that's not including discipline crafting (yea that's an item as well), and whatever else they cook up.

 

Every profession they add causes that number to grow.  It seems to me that pulling the vessel one out and letting everyone participate in the creation/crafting of their own vessels, is not going to dramatically reduce inter-dependency in any way.

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well I mean.. That's part of a player based economy. Finding other players and crafters to work with to get gear and items is the name of the game.. "LF Crafter with max pips, pls send tell".  That's not a downfall thats a feature. I don't feel like its right to just pick and choose with things are part of the economy and reliance on others and what we want to be self sufficient at. You either like a player based economy or you don't.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well I mean.. That's part of a player based economy. Finding other players and crafters to work with to get gear and items is the name of the game.. "LF Crafter with max pips, pls send tell".  That's not a downfall thats a feature. I don't feel like its right to just pick and choose with things are part of the economy and reliance on others and what we want to be self sufficient at. You either like a player based economy or you don't.

 

That's a False Dilemma fallacy.

 

Also, that "FL Crafter with max pips, pls send tell" only works in a world system where there is an assumption of co-operation.

 

Dregs have the exact opposite assumption.  

 

My question doesn't just apply to the guild level, it also applies to the "side" question.  This is a throne war simulator, and there will be lots of places where strategy dictates a total lack of co-operation with the other sides.

Edited by KrakkenSmacken

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just meant that a lot of times it seems like trying have your cake and eat it too, ie have it both ways. Most times in these games and systems you don't get to pick and choose which parts you abide by or not. You either take the game for how its made or you don't.

 

Even on the Dregs there will be co-operation, its not and never was meant to be a complete free for all, it'll still be guild based on the Dregs.

Edited by pang

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Even enemy guilds traded things in Shadowbane, I don't see why they wouldn't in the Dregs.

 

That is part of what makes it a throne war simulator, and not just RvR battles.

Fair enough.

 

I don't see how my suggestion of moving the training line for vessel building to the archetype line changes in any way a player driven economy.  

 

If your not interested in crafting your own vessels, or training that line, you could still try to hit the open market.  It just doesn't force you to become a necromancer, or have a necromancer alt, if you want control of that aspect of your character. You have the choice to sacrifice diversity of Archetypes, and not diversity of profession.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This was a pleasant and respectful debate and I very much appreciated seeing the various sides discussed rationally. It's also cool to see the various pros and cons being weighed and measured and largely agreed upon by the end. Keep it up.

 

d-^-^-b

 

Also, STOP BEING SO ENGAGING AND REASONABLE. IT IS AFTER MY BEDTIME.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle#Pre-alpha <--this is where we are. If your complaint is that the game don't not works good, come back later.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Won't there still be both crafted vessel stats (you get what the crafter made for you or generic) AND starting rune stat adjustments by the crow when the account enters the vessel (Character Creation Runes and customization) like Shadowbane?   Or has Character customization and starting runes been pushed back or turned into just faces scars and hair...


6FUI4Mk.jpg

                                                        Sugoi - Senpai

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Won't there still be both crafted vessel stats (you get what the crafter made for you or generic) AND starting rune stat adjustments by the crow when the account enters the vessel (Character Creation Runes and customization) like Shadowbane?   Or has Character customization and starting runes been pushed back or turned into just faces scars and hair...

Im still fairly certain they are still planned.

 

Its just unclear at what level these will reside at, vessel level like a socket you slide in or what.

 

And hopefully, they will be more than just stat adjustments.

Edited by Vectious

CfWBSig.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Crowfall is going in the wrong direction in terms of mechanics and design. The classes and combat are on par but I feel like they are missing the mark with several systems.

 

First of all, I dislike that you can craft anywhere in the world as opposed to having to deal with the issue of logistics. I'd appreciate forcing people to travel to a crafting bench or to some sort of crafting station in order to construct their gear/items. 

 

Second, I find the whole hunger system to be a little bit too much: ark, h1z1, and conan exiles-like. The game in its current state plays much like the aforementioned survival games. I believe food should be somewhat of a necessity but more along the lines of it boosting a stat or improving regeneration of health and mana.

 

Gathering is too easy and unrealistic as it imposes no logistics issue as seen in a number of sandbox games. For example, likening this to EVE Online one would not be able to simply "create" new modules in open space. They have to do it in stations or at other facilities. 

 

i believe the developers should take a good hard look at what works in other sandbox titles and also pay close attention to the extreme similarities with Survival games. A course change is necessary. 

 

Please let me know your thoughts and/or opinions on this.

pass.

 

Not being able to craft on the spot would require tedious amounts of time running back and forth as you would need to carry extra tools and potions with you that would fill your inventory. What is more like a survival game than having to run back to craft? H1Z1, 7 Days to Die, etc all have these features. I think using the word "logistical" is nice but irrelevant as it doesn't add much to your gameplay as much as it subtracts. Keep in mind the current banking system is just a temporary stop gap measure until something more refined is added later. Also, we haven't seen resource POIs yet so once they get added I imagine fighting over them will be a common occurrence.


43WqLMM.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, the assumption here is that you can even find such a crafter, and that they will work with you. Remember each vessel is "hand crafted", no "factories".

 

Did you catch the part in the video where they said "you will start with zero pips"? Basically, unless you are willing to spend time on training crafting vessels, you won't even have a shot at the process yourself.

 

There is one number that has never really been discussed.  What is the minimum number of players required to "support" each other to reach the pinnacle in every endeavor.  

 

Or put another way.  For a guild to be completely self sufficient, how many different professions need to be represented in that guild? 

 

Every guild that wants self sufficiency will need (after a year or more of dedicated universal training).

 

  • Harvester/Animal (5X)
  • Harvester/Wood (5X)
  • Harvester/Stone (5X)
  • Harvester/Ore (5X)
  • Harvester/Grave 
  • Craft/Leather
  • Craft/Wood
  • Craft/Smith
  • Craft/Vessel
  • Craft/Siege
  • Craft/Buildings
  • Craft/Runes
  • Craft/Alchemy
  • ....

It's an important number, it really really matters. Right now the smallest viable guild is from just that list 13, and that's not including discipline crafting (yea that's an item as well), and whatever else they cook up.

 

Every profession they add causes that number to grow.  It seems to me that pulling the vessel one out and letting everyone participate in the creation/crafting of their own vessels, is not going to dramatically reduce inter-dependency in any way.

 

This number could easily be cut down to half or less if guilds are going to multi box or multi account.  Since crafters could be left in their guilds safe zone you could easily run crafter on secondary accounts since they are not needing to be front line players like harvesters will be.


   Official Moderator of the Unofficial Crowfall Discord!  Come join the discussion @ https://discord.me/crowfall

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This number could easily be cut down to half or less if guilds are going to multi box or multi account.  Since crafters could be left in their guilds safe zone you could easily run crafter on secondary accounts since they are not needing to be front line players like harvesters will be.

 

Your not wrong.  There is huge incentive for players/guilds to simply use Alts for all their crafting needs.

 

Is that really healthy for the game, to have most crafters be Alts?  

 

I think the answer to that is no, so you can either add incentive to players to craft on their mains, or punish alts in some way, or a mix.  

 

I would much prefer to add incentive to players to craft on their mains, but to me the biggest barrier to that is the universal combat line, simply because you have to forgo any crafting or economic related profession, if you want the most combat buff stats.

 

Shallow curve or not, that still matters.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

pass.

 

Not being able to craft on the spot would require tedious amounts of time running back and forth as you would need to carry extra tools and potions with you that would fill your inventory. What is more like a survival game than having to run back to craft? H1Z1, 7 Days to Die, etc all have these features. I think using the word "logistical" is nice but irrelevant as it doesn't add much to your gameplay as much as it subtracts. Keep in mind the current banking system is just a temporary stop gap measure until something more refined is added later. Also, we haven't seen resource POIs yet so once they get added I imagine fighting over them will be a common occurrence.

You do know that being able to craft anywhere is a temporary thing right now, right? We can only do that for testing. The final implementation will be that almost all crafting is done at crafting stations.


Guild Leader of Seeds of War

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

pass.

 

Not being able to craft on the spot would require tedious amounts of time running back and forth as you would need to carry extra tools and potions with you that would fill your inventory. What is more like a survival game than having to run back to craft? H1Z1, 7 Days to Die, etc all have these features. I think using the word "logistical" is nice but irrelevant as it doesn't add much to your gameplay as much as it subtracts. Keep in mind the current banking system is just a temporary stop gap measure until something more refined is added later. Also, we haven't seen resource POIs yet so once they get added I imagine fighting over them will be a common occurrence.

But the game will have crafting stations, and we will have to run back and forth. And "logistics" couldn't be more relevant. Logistics is literally the planning of activities in order to achieve a goal. So regardless of whatever method they implement in the game for crafting, there will be logistics applied to how to do it properly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would like to see further sneak peeks and reassurances into the Starting Runes and Vessel Customization.  We got some info way back and now briefly see a sheet when we enter a vessel.  The concept idea held somewhat to SB with rune slots for stats, run speed, etc and has potential for wide variance in builds at the vessel level combined with disciplines at the vessel level.  I am sure most knights would go +Con with child stat Stamina for example and that means the runes should have a wide variety of desirable either/or choices and a similar cost system that includes negative cost detrimental runes.  That was very key to what we called variety in SB...  

 

I second Frykka's post.

 

Iknow it's been stated that we will see great customisation. There's a tiny glimmer of this with the inbound vessels system.

 

But, to use the Shadowbane similarity - starting runes, discipline runes, stat trains, and skill trains that can make, and absolutely break a character are part of the fun. At present, it's still linear progression and cookie cutter toons.

 

I would give my left nut to be able to plough 100 points for strength for example, into my duelist, and see his char model grow in size ... being realistic I dont expect this, too many pitfalls (fitting thru a door, etc).


"Proud" owner of the domains : http://www.crowfall2.com and http://www.guinecean.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like the food/hunger system.  It seems like a simplified method of having food buffs like a lot of MMOs do and implements it in a more realistic way. 

 

 

You do know that being able to craft anywhere is a temporary thing right now, right? We can only do that for testing. The final implementation will be that almost all crafting is done at crafting stations.

 

Mark Halash had a crafting video where he was making stuff on the fly and specified that the later crafting at stations would simply yield better results. Maybe they will take the ability away to craft anywhere for some select items, that is a possibility, but it is misleading to say the station-less crafting is going away entirely. 

Edited by Decoy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like the food/hunger system.  It seems like a simplified method of having food buffs like a lot of MMOs do and implements it in a more realistic way. 

 

 

 

Mark Halash had a crafting video where he was making stuff on the fly and specified that the later crafting at stations would simply yield better results. Maybe they will take the ability away to craft anywhere for some select items, that is a possibility, but it is misleading to say the station-less crafting is going away entirely. 

Look at your "Basics" and "Survival" crafting, and new crafting stations.

 

99% sure that's the only mobile crafting that's going to make it through.

 

You can fully outfit "basic" gear, but that's about it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...