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Work in progress - Official discussion thread


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was hoping for them templar details....maximum sadness.

 

 

So that's a pretty big confirmation that stat customization (and thus a fair amount of customization in general) will be behind a crafter wall.

 

 

Time to buy a few more accounts ;p.

Edited by helix
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was hoping for them templar details....maximum sadness.

 

 

So that's a pretty big confirmation that stat customization (and thus a fair amount of customization in general) will be behind a crafter wall.

 

 

Time to buy a few more accounts ;p.

Everything is crafted though... what wall?

 

"Hey crafter guy I want a Dex Templar, here the mats and/or payment" "Hey Crafter guy I want a Knight with stats x,y,z in 1,2,3 amounts.." "Hey I want a Myrm with stats x,y,z, I'll go look at players markets for ones that match up to what I want"

 

Again what wall?

Edited by pang
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Some follow up questions based upon this video:

 

1. With the addition of minerals, we can now craft vessels. The question is, why? Since the ability to "occupy" vessels hasn't been added, why should we be crafting vessels? How soon do you expect the ability for Crows to possess crafted vessels will be added?

 

2. You say that attributes (Str, Int, Dex, etc.) effects skills and everything else. When we pull up "Vessel Statistics" we can see both our vessel's Str/Dex/Int as well as our critical hit chances, etc. Each AT has different base attribute stats but it does not appear that they have any effect on the underling skills/statistics. It appears that my skill tree training does increase my critical hit chance, but my relative Dex from my Vessel does not. Is this an oversight? Is this an error in display? Is this as intended?

 

3. Attack Power and Armor Class. We see these items go up and down...we don't see the effects of having high attack power or high armor class. In a tab targeting system Attack Power and Armor Class are often used to create a "chance to hit" vs. "chance to miss" scenario. It does not appear that CF has that kind of system. It also doesn't appear that attack power equates to greater damager or armor class results in less damage, as these are a function of weapon stats or armor mitigation stats. What does Attack Power do? What does Armor Class do?

 

4. The issue of pips and crafting. Your current crafting trees claim that we get experimentation points for "basic crafting." However, basic crafting does not allow experimentation. We make basic armor and weapons...and its a combine wood/stone and viola...no experimentation even offered. Essentially training these skills offers nothing as they do not appear to be factored in at all in advanced crafting. This is this oversight? a display error? by design?

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Think Blair misunderstood the Excavation skilltree redo question.

Everybody that wants to specialize in ore- stone- and grave gathering will already be 'experts' in Copper, Granite or Humans Graves BEFORE they get to the specialized ore, stone and grave trees. This doesn't make any sense where all resources should be of equal importance right it since the last gathering redo. And it certainly doesn't make any sense in a specialization aspect.

No one will be experts in Copper mining, because everybody will be.

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Thanks!

1.  My vote is for standard combat numbers in the tens with crits in the hundreds.  Whatever is finally chosen, IMO err on the side of smaller instead of larger numbers.   

2.  Vessels/necromancy: Anyone remember that scene from the terrible movie The Adventures of Pluto Nash where they are at the futuristic plastic surgery clinic? It's kind of like that (I won't link it here because I don't know if it is really appropriate, but you can find it on Youtube).    

The Artist Formerly Known as Regulus

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would like to see lower number's than 50k for the start it is to inflationary, combat numbers in the lower hundrets are cool and more clearly :)

One Ring to Rule them all, One Ring to Find them, One Ring to bring them all an in the darkness and bind them.

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I would like to go back to the lower numbers we saw at the beginning of HD 1.0... lopping off a zero at the end of HP pools and damage numbers would be a good place to start IMO.

Edited by destrin

"Float like a Butterfly.... Sting like a Misplaced Decimal Point" - Xarrayne 2018

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Everything is crafted though... what wall?

 

"Hey crafter guy I want a Dex Templar, here the mats and/or payment" "Hey Crafter guy I want a Knight with stats x,y,z in 1,2,3 amounts.." "Hey I want a Myrm with stats x,y,z, I'll go look at players markets for ones that match up to what I want"

 

Again what wall?

You just made my point for me, and in doing so, answered your own question. I'm not a fan of character customization (in this case; stats) being heavily associated with gear / crafting in a pvp game. In order to build the character you want, progress the way you want, you have to craft and thus IMO that's a barrier (or wall). It's not a "bad" thing (not sure why people get so jumpy when people point out that 2/3rds of customization is coming from crafting), but it's not something I'm very fond of either.

 

I'd rather have stats and the such on the character side (which is impossible, unfortunately with the crow / vessel system) and damage mitigation / output / small stat augmentations on the gear side. 50/50, even 40/60 is something I would prefer.

Edited by helix
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So please to see/hear that after months of screaming on the top of my lungs, actually have is starting to pay off!

You took the word "Ranger" into your mouth. Progress!

J/K Of course.


In general I feel you are on the right path, and whilst the community wants you to defer from that path at times, I hope you stay strong and stick to it!

Edited by Soulreaver

Huginn ok Muninn, fljúga hverjan dag, Jörmungrund yfir; óumk ek of Hugin,, at hann aftr né komi-t, þó sjámk meir of Munin

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Everything is crafted though... what wall?

 

"Hey crafter guy I want a Dex Templar, here the mats and/or payment" "Hey Crafter guy I want a Knight with stats x,y,z in 1,2,3 amounts.." "Hey I want a Myrm with stats x,y,z, I'll go look at players markets for ones that match up to what I want"

 

Again what wall?

The wall is because the cost of a customized vessel will be insane.

 

You will more than likely get what they produce and threw in a vendor.

 

Sort of the issue with slot machine crafting in general.

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You just made my point for me, and in doing so, answered your own question. I'm not a fan of character customization (in this case, stats) being heavily associated with gear / crafting in a pvp game. In order to build the character you want, progress the way you want, you have to craft and thus IMO that's a barrier (or wall). It's not a "bad" thing (not sure why people get so jumpy when people point out that 2/3rds of customization is coming from crafting), but it's not something I'm very fond of either.

 

I'd rather have stats and the such on the character side (which is impossible, unfortunately with the crow / vessel system) and damage mitigation / output / small stat augmentations on the gear side. 50/50, even 40/60 is something I would prefer.

Personally haven't formed a complete opinion of the system yet to say if fond of it or not or its "unfortunate". Right now I lean towards being more accepting of the way Crowfall is doing things than most here because bottom line for me is I care less about how they do things and more with the end result being a fun, compelling and dynamic game to play.

 

The wall is because the cost of a customized vessel will be insane.

 

You will more than likely get what they produce and threw in a vendor.

 

Sort of the issue with slot machine crafting in general.

 

Its a player based economy. So the assumption that players will just buy whatever off a vendor doesn't seem to hold much water. No, I believe like past games with player run economy's it'll be like I said with players placing orders with crafters to get what they want.

Edited by pang
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Everything is crafted though... what wall?

 

"Hey crafter guy I want a Dex Templar, here the mats and/or payment" "Hey Crafter guy I want a Knight with stats x,y,z in 1,2,3 amounts.." "Hey I want a Myrm with stats x,y,z, I'll go look at players markets for ones that match up to what I want"

 

Again what wall?

I suppose the "freedom to fail" they promised us will in reality be the freedom to make a bad purchasing decision from a crafter.

 

I am disappoint.

Edited by coolwaters
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A balance pass? I don't know what you are referring too. The balance of Cowfall is great!

 

 

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I would also prefer lower values

 

(or even an option to turn all numbers to display % rounded to whole number of 1 decimal place visually only

 

e.g. I hit you for 2.5%, healed for 5% etc)

 

also please give us a combat log.

 

And you need a better way of presenting multiple numbers from fast multi hitting powers that is readable.

 

You also need to rein in the spike DPS especially crits. Single target DPS is the only thing that matters at this point.

 

Mobility and CC are also pretty out of control for floaty fights determined by hard cc damage spike deletion assist focus trains in between moving across half the map - especially when you scale up the size of the fights.

 

Way too much RNG damage variation on powers/gear.

 

RE: vessel state debate....you guys are also forgetting that even the capacity to equip a higher quality vessel requires general skill training too...

 

Server suggestion: would it be possible to rotate the maps by location every weekend or so? (e.g. gorge moves from west to east to eu and vice versa for the keeps and mountains etc)

Edited by Tinnis
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Personally haven't formed a complete opinion of the system yet to say if fond of it or not or its "unfortunate". Right now I lean towards being more accepting of the way Crowfall is doing things than most here because bottom line for me is I care less about how they do things and more with the end result being a fun, compelling and dynamic game to play.

 

 

Its a player based economy. So the assumption that players will just buy whatever off a vendor doesn't seem to hold much water. No, I believe like past games with player run economy's it'll be like I said with players placing orders with crafters to get what they want.

...player ran vendor if i wasn't clear before.

 

A custom request would not really be a thing. It would be waaaay to expensive for a crafter to burn through materials to try and meet a customers particular need.

 

Thats slot machine crafting, you cant guarantee anything, so you craft these vessels and then you sell what you made.

 

The people get the option of the random results. To do otherwise would really not be realistic. 

 

 

Now you COULD say i want certain stats, and they make do that with the understanding you get what you get regardless of the rolls. But what if it rolled crap? Would the person still be willing to pay for it? Or huge say 'cya'. I guess he could pay up front but whats to stop the crafter to take the custom money then go get a bull crap rolled vessel he was saving for this particular moment? You cant PROVE they did it.

 

'Orders' would be a honor system. Its not going to happen. 

 

Thats why putting things in a vendor that you have made and people having to choose among that will be the only realistic option. See before you buy. Otherwise how do you know what you are getting? Guaranteed stats are not a thing like other games.

 

Customization becomes the slave of a slot machine.

Edited by Vectious

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Some follow up questions based upon this video:

 

1. With the addition of minerals, we can now craft vessels. The question is, why? Since the ability to "occupy" vessels hasn't been added, why should we be crafting vessels? How soon do you expect the ability for Crows to possess crafted vessels will be added?

 

2. You say that attributes (Str, Int, Dex, etc.) effects skills and everything else. When we pull up "Vessel Statistics" we can see both our vessel's Str/Dex/Int as well as our critical hit chances, etc. Each AT has different base attribute stats but it does not appear that they have any effect on the underling skills/statistics. It appears that my skill tree training does increase my critical hit chance, but my relative Dex from my Vessel does not. Is this an oversight? Is this an error in display? Is this as intended?

 

3. Attack Power and Armor Class. We see these items go up and down...we don't see the effects of having high attack power or high armor class. In a tab targeting system Attack Power and Armor Class are often used to create a "chance to hit" vs. "chance to miss" scenario. It does not appear that CF has that kind of system. It also doesn't appear that attack power equates to greater damager or armor class results in less damage, as these are a function of weapon stats or armor mitigation stats. What does Attack Power do? What does Armor Class do?

 

4. The issue of pips and crafting. Your current crafting trees claim that we get experimentation points for "basic crafting." However, basic crafting does not allow experimentation. We make basic armor and weapons...and its a combine wood/stone and viola...no experimentation even offered. Essentially training these skills offers nothing as they do not appear to be factored in at all in advanced crafting. This is this oversight? a display error? by design?

 

1. Because this is testing and we want to make sure we catch any problems with vessel crafting. Ie if no one had tried we wouldn't have known that minerals weren't dropping at a reasonable rate.

This is the first crafting object to use attributes, can you make something completely broken statswise? Does the legionnaire recipe produce a knight? (it did at one point)  Does the recipe produce proper quality results? There are hundreds of parts and pieces and 13 archetypes. At any point in there bugs could crop up.

I would hope we finish up the occupy a vessel in inventory tech in a few weeks.

 

2. There is a bug with parent stat contribution, was hoping it would get fixed this week, but vanishing items on logout has taken priority for that engineer.

 

3. AP = straight damage increase.

Armor Class is a parent to all_mititations, which is a parent to physical/elemental/organic mitigations, and those are parents to slashing/crushing/piercing , fire/ice/electric, nature/poison/disease.  See previous comment about bug with parent stat contribution.

 

4.Basic crafting is the parent to all crafting types. Skill gain in Basic will help you in all crafting. See previous comment about bug with parent stat contribution.

 

See how many things 1 bug can cause problems with? (you can see why I would really like this one squished)

Thomas Blair
ArtCraft Entertainment, Inc.
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Scale down the health and damage numbers to what they were in the early Hunger Dome. There really isn't any argument for this other than personal preference, and that's my personal preference.

 

Remove the RNG element from crafting success/failure.

 

I understand that you want a resource sink, but resource collection is just too much work only to be punished by a bad dice roll. It's the sort of annoying, frustrating thing which causes people to log out in disgust when the previous hour's work goes down the drain. The resource sink function is already being provided by: Durability loss (especially if same-quality mats are required for repairs), item loss (campaign specific), and by the vast variety of potential build options and their required stat loadouts. This week I may need gear with +crushing damage, but next week I may be fighting a guild which uses a lot of confessors and +fire resist may be called for. We're not gearing up a single character for a WoW-style endgame experience, we're creating a stable of different vessels/armor/weapon load-outs for the battle at hand.

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...player ran vendor if i wasn't clear before.

 

A custom request would not really be a thing. It would be waaaay to expensive for a crafter to burn through materials to try and meet a customers particular need.

 

Thats slot machine crafting, you cant guarantee anything, so you craft these vessels and then you sell what you made.

 

The people get the option of the random results. To do otherwise would really not be realistic. 

 

 

Now you COULD say i want certain stats, and they make do that with the understanding you get what you get regardless of the rolls. But what if it rolled crap? Would the person still be willing to pay for it? Or huge say 'cya'. I guess he could pay up front but whats to stop the crafter to take the custom money then go get a bull crap rolled vessel he was saving for this particular moment? You cant PROVE they did it.

 

'Orders' would be a honor system. Its not going to happen. 

 

Thats why putting things in a vendor that you have made and people having to choose among that will be the only realistic option. See before you buy. Otherwise how do you know what you are getting? Guaranteed stats are not a thing like other games.

 

Customization becomes the slave of a slot machine.

Didn't really read my posts I see. I said when placing an order it includes payment and/or the mats as well. You don't just place an order and expect the crafter to do everything with his own mats. This isn't anything new though, ever play a game with a player run economy before? Doesn't sound like you have.

 

Sorry but as usual seems like you're just assuming negative outcomes based on personal preference and bias and not actual facts and experience.

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