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karetyr

So, Tell Me About Shadowbane.

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It's true that not all characters could be built in a such simple fashion, but in my opinion it often is the case. If you look at all the possible race and class combinations a very large chunk out of them is competitive following such a simple pattern. Perhaps I could demonstrate this to you a bit further, but I don't think it's necessary as you pointed out that you didn't actually read the comment properly, and among the pros list there's a point which helps to interpret the con, quote: (Pros:) "Almost all characters can benefit at least to a certain degree from Constitution and Intelligence, usually also a 3rd stat."

 

I actually did read the whole thing after. The catch on this is that I did in fact read that first part because it is before the other in the post.

 

I guess I'll simplify what I said a bit. A lot of characters could be effective maxing 2 stats but it was not the BEST way to build them in many cases.

 

 

In other news, I agree with some of the other points. That was just the one I wanted to comment on because it was an oversimplification of the system that a lot of people made but really was only the case because people were too lazy, just didn't care, or were not that great at building characters. A good example of this is meat characters. Most people just maxed con and str like crazy and neglected the poorly made socks out of intelligence. Or completely maxed con without regard to strength or the other way around. It was super inefficient on points and really took away from some of the potential they had.

 

Of course some of this was personal preference but that only goes so far.

 

 

Anyway, my post was way more jerkish than I meant it to be.


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Shadowbane was not very good. The only good thing about the game was the intricate politics that existed outside the game on the forums.

 

Graphics - Subpar for the time

 

Combat - One of the slowest paced tab target auto-attack combat systems ever seen. Maybe one of the biggest disappointments the game offered.

 

Characters and Customization - Several races to choose from, but there was not much customization to be found in this game.

 

Skills and Classes - Lots of options, but not very balanced. Disciplines added an extra layer, but I hated that character advancement depended on a random loot drop.

 

Mounts, Pets, and Vehicles - Nothing other than the little summoned demon that one class got that I can remember. Lets be honest the game was pretty much barebones. I think they thought they could come back a fill in the rest game at some point if they got basic combat and sieging in. Thats what the fanboys wanted on the forums.

 

Crafting - You clicked a button to generate loot.

 

City Construction - This was actually something new to the genre. You could build a custom "city" and have it appear on the world map. Unfortunately this was also disappointing due to limitations. The ground in and around the city was flattened. Terrain and Location did not matter at all. The only thing that mattered was proximity to leveling and wealth acquisition zones. The cities themselves could not really be classified as cities. They were more like outposts or forts. The size was too small to accommodate anything other than the necessities. A city should be much more than what shadowbane offered. I imagine a city starting small like a village then eventually ranking up to the point where it's the size of midgar in FFVII. Here's a picture of city construction: http://i.imgur.com/BZS0all.jpg

 

Sieges - Another exciting addition to mmorpgs, but poorly implemented. There were so many things that went wrong with sieges. It was changed so often that I don't even know where to start. I will say that it was too easy to siege, too frequent, and the burden of the cost was always on the defender.

 

Client - This deserves a special mention. I have never been frustrated with the quality of a game client in all my time playing games as I was with shadowbane. There were so many bugs and crashes that it made the game a chore to play. The SB.exe error became a joke to every mmo player that was around at the time.

Edited by L-C

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Shadowbane was not very good. The only good thing about the game was the intricate politics that existed outside the game on the forums.

 

Graphics - Subpar for the time

 

Combat - One of the slowest paced tab target auto-attack combat systems ever seen. Maybe one of the biggest disappointments the game offered.

 

Characters and Customization - Several races to choose from, but there was not much customization to be found in this game.

 

Mounts, Pets, and Vehicles - Nothing other than the little summoned demon that one class got that I can remember. Lets be honest the game was pretty much barebones. I think they thought they could come back a fill in the rest game at some point if they got basic combat and sieging in. Thats what the fanboys wanted on the forums.

 

Crafting - You clicked a button to generate loot.

 

City Construction - This was actually something new to the genre. You could build a custom "city" and have it appear on the world map. Unfortunately this was also disappointing due to limitations. The ground in and around the city was flattened. Terrain and Location did not matter at all. The only thing that mattered was proximity to leveling and wealth acquisition zones. The cities themselves could not really be classified as cities. They were more like outposts or forts. The size was too small to accommodate anything other than the necessities. A city should be much more than what shadowbane offered. I imagine a city starting small like a village then eventually ranking up to the point where it's the size of midgar in FFVII. Here's a picture of city construction: http://i.imgur.com/BZS0all.jpg

 

Sieges - Another exciting addition to mmorpgs, but poorly implemented. There were so many things that went wrong with sieges. It was changed so often that I don't even know where to start. I will say that it was too easy to siege, too frequent, and the burden of the cost was always on the defender.

 

I stopped reading where you write : Characters and Customization - Several races to choose from, but there was not much customization to be found in this game.


Se un uomo non è disposto a lottare per le proprie idee, o le sue idee non valgono nulla o non vale nulla lui. EZRA POUND

 

MEMENTO AUDERE SEMPER

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Shadowbane was not very good. The only good thing about the game was the intricate politics that existed outside the game on the forums.

 

Graphics - Subpar for the time

 

Combat - One of the slowest paced tab target auto-attack combat systems ever seen. Maybe one of the biggest disappointments the game offered.

 

Characters and Customization - Several races to choose from, but there was not much customization to be found in this game.

 

Skills and Classes - Lots of options, but not very balanced. Disciplines added an extra layer, but I hated that character advancement depended on a random loot drop.

 

Mounts, Pets, and Vehicles - Nothing other than the little summoned demon that one class got that I can remember. Lets be honest the game was pretty much barebones. I think they thought they could come back a fill in the rest game at some point if they got basic combat and sieging in. Thats what the fanboys wanted on the forums.

 

Crafting - You clicked a button to generate loot.

 

City Construction - This was actually something new to the genre. You could build a custom "city" and have it appear on the world map. Unfortunately this was also disappointing due to limitations. The ground in and around the city was flattened. Terrain and Location did not matter at all. The only thing that mattered was proximity to leveling and wealth acquisition zones. The cities themselves could not really be classified as cities. They were more like outposts or forts. The size was too small to accommodate anything other than the necessities. A city should be much more than what shadowbane offered. I imagine a city starting small like a village then eventually ranking up to the point where it's the size of midgar in FFVII. Here's a picture of city construction: http://i.imgur.com/BZS0all.jpg

 

Sieges - Another exciting addition to mmorpgs, but poorly implemented. There were so many things that went wrong with sieges. It was changed so often that I don't even know where to start. I will say that it was too easy to siege, too frequent, and the burden of the cost was always on the defender.

 

I feel like you played the game all wrong.  It's surprising considering the guild you have in your name but I also suspect you played at release, didn't get very deep in to the game, then quit having missed nearly every expansion and addition to the game which really made it stand out as the PvP game we all love. 

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I feel like you played the game all wrong.  It's surprising considering the guild you have in your name but I also suspect you played at release, didn't get very deep in to the game, then quit having missed nearly every expansion and addition to the game which really made it stand out as the PvP game we all love. 

 

The bulk of the player base left around May 2003. Sorry, but anything after that was too little too late.

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The bulk of the playerbase?  You mean when your Subpar beta guild left?  The game flourished for quite some time.  New powerhouse guilds came/gone. Any and ALL older guilds who meandered back to SB after their supposed "time of glory" found themselves clueless on how to adapt to balance changes and the new blood that had grabbed the reigns of dominance.

 

The Rolling 30s may have been considered "good" back in the day when they had a huge beta lead and the majority of the playerbase didn't know how to click a def-cut, but, in todays Shadowbane (and Shadowbane before it closed) they'd have been nursing a few small cities and hoping to steal the xpac mines on an off-night just like every other low-hanging-fruit guild that thought they were good.

 

Edit:  Your worship is duly noted.

Edited by pvp101

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The game coasted on fumes for several years as a VERY SMALL NICHE game with almost no player base. The original developer shut down and another company was formed to keep the game running. Even that didn't last long. If the game was as great as you think it was, why was it closed? Let's be honest, whatever trash can guild/alliance you are in would have never survived against the Rollin 30s. You were allowed to exist only because we no longer played the game. Consider yourselves lucky. Where have you been in every game released since? Nowhere that's where. We (the guilds that made up the core of r30s) continue to dominate in whatever game we play.

Edited by L-C

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Existing in a game and *dominating* it are 2 different things.  The Rolling 30's hardly lasted on live because they had several members caught openly cheating and when they realized that they were to be punished the guild as a whole took their ball and went home. The Rollin' 30's "exist" in several games but do not dominate in any of them. The reason you're in so many is because, as a guild, they can't stick to 1 thing and get good at it. You spread yourselves thin hoping that quantity will prevail over quality.  

 

Again, The Rollin' 30s were a "factor" when no one knew how to use abilities. They, like every other beta guild, had a leg up on the competition at live due to sheer experience. Once the rest of the population caught up, The Rollin 30s true colors were shown: Your average run-of-the-mill guild with puffed out chests and talk of how great they "used" to be.  

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Existing in a game and *dominating* it are 2 different things.  The Rolling 30's hardly lasted on live because they had several members caught openly cheating and when they realized that they were to be punished the guild as a whole took their ball and went home. The Rollin' 30's "exist" in several games but do not dominate in any of them. The reason you're in so many is because, as a guild, they can't stick to 1 thing and get good at it. You spread yourselves thin hoping that quantity will prevail over quality.  

 

Again, The Rollin' 30s were a "factor" when no one knew how to use abilities. They, like every other beta guild, had a leg up on the competition at live due to sheer experience. Once the rest of the population caught up, The Rollin 30s true colors were shown: Your average run-of-the-mill guild with puffed out chests and talk of how great they "used" to be.  

 

R30s left shadowbane about a week before E3 2003. The game was a terrible mess. Like I said nothing after that point counted so quit talking as if it did. Nobody left because they were losing. When we quit the game our cities remained fully intact without a single successful siege against them. Our enemies cities were burned to the ground and their hopes were crushed. Talking about how you were a factor in a dead game after we left is pretty sad.

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Keep grasping at those glory days of old. If you were so good The Rollin 30s would have returned to the game and shown all the "new" guilds how it was done. You didn't. You couldn't. Claiming glory after having beta advantage is like beating an armless guy in arm wrestling. It doesn't mean much. Every older guild who attempted a "comeback" amounted to nothing after your supposed 2003 hayday for the reasons I mentioned above. Every. Guild. You wouldn't even be a challenge to Dragonscale.

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It's michaelflatley re-incarnate, everybody. To be quite honest I only expected him to be that god damn deluded, but apparently it's a "nation-wide phenomenon."

Edited by nehemia

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There was a Golden Age of Shadowbane, this time period is widely disputed but it is assumed to have been from Beta to around 2006 shortly before or after Stray Bullet Games assumed control of the IP  During that time many NA guilds played it heavily, many "Empires" rose and fell and different generations of guilds made their mark.  When the Deathless Empire of the Covenant of the Swords Alliance started to fade on Treachery, I saw many clans I had never heard of come and fill the power vacuum, it's inevitable that newer or lesser known clans will seize power and then continue to press their tyranny.   So for anyone to epeen claim how BA they are is a moot point because everyone's domination originates from someone elses whether they realize it or not, I know as a Prime Echelon of Cadre Quietus of the time that we built our power base off of the Rolling 30's as they left game, it created the opportunity we needed.

 

It's called META fools

Edited by Drakiis

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A lot of the beta guilds would've had the floor wiped with them by probably even china's top 50 players. They played through beta and got the hook up (what was it, free r7 trainer city or something?) at launch in addition to a head start on everything. Whether through boredom, frustration, or players catching up in knowledge -- all the beta guilds were destroyed. I started on War and while Death Head Legion had a death grip, in about six months they were just a legend.

 

A lot of players on these forums seemed to have tried Shadowbane out for less than 3 months and quit. That's fine. At least you played the game. I played DF beta and it was terribad. Could I be counted on my opinion to judge the entirety of Darkfall based on a few weeks in beta? Not at all.

 

Slow tab target action and auto-attack. Did you get owned on a barb and quit?

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Keep grasping at those glory days of old. If you were so good The Rollin 30s would have returned to the game and shown all the "new" guilds how it was done. You didn't. You couldn't. Claiming glory after having beta advantage is like beating an armless guy in arm wrestling. It doesn't mean much. Every older guild who attempted a "comeback" amounted to nothing after your supposed 2003 hayday for the reasons I mentioned above. Every. Guild. You wouldn't even be a challenge to Dragonscale.

 

Who makes a comeback in a dead game? Nobody wanted to come back. Like I said the game died the week of E3 2003. Just because you were some tryhard that stuck around until the big boys got tired and left the game does not make you good.

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A lot of the beta guilds would've had the floor wiped with them by probably even china's top 50 players. They played through beta and got the hook up (what was it, free r7 trainer city or something?) at launch in addition to a head start on everything. Whether through boredom, frustration, or players catching up in knowledge -- all the beta guilds were destroyed. I started on War and while Death Head Legion had a death grip, in about six months they were just a legend.

 

A lot of players on these forums seemed to have tried Shadowbane out for less than 3 months and quit. That's fine. At least you played the game. I played DF beta and it was terribad. Could I be counted on my opinion to judge the entirety of Darkfall based on a few weeks in beta? Not at all.

 

Slow tab target action and auto-attack. Did you get owned on a barb and quit?

That is entirely unsubstantiated, there were no "headstarts" or "Leg-ups"  The game had duping bugs to be certain, but only certain people were using them at the time, NA guilds do not operate the same as the Asian Guilds, it's that community which came in at the end of Shadowbanes life cycle and in MY opinion made the game a endless series of alliances, where one asian guild was eventually allied to all the other asian guilds.  NA alliances rarely get bigger then three clans, and many of those "Empires" were self made, forged out of many a bane, and a lot of fighting by highly skilled groups, not 1v1 honor duels or weird pan-continental alliance factories that spit out zerg after zerg, hells if I was forming a clan I'd take NA Operators over an Asian Gamer any day and twice on Sundays, the Asian gamer being a great farmer/lvl grinder


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As someone that's been reading up on as much shadowbane as possible r30s seems to be the guild that really dominated above all others during the time that they played. 

 

It was really interesting with the hunger article that Artcraft released today mentioning what they learned about beta and the wipe processes and how cool that dynamic was.  I think artcraft also understands when shadowbane was good and when it had dried up.

 

I think it is really irrational to expect dominant guilds to come back to games that are dead or dying to prove they are still the best.  You can not logically expect the level of competition to be higher when a game has less people playing, than when it has more people playing.  This holds true for every game that has some sort of competitive environment.  Because you can not expect this, you can not expect the greats to be attracted to coming back to a game that has minimal competition. 

 

That being said, there are many cases where guilds have done well in a game early on, and then quit after getting their buttwhooped and claiming the game just wasn't good enough for them, but I'll be honest, I see this most from SB loyalists more than any other pvp gaming community. 

 

I don't know who was better in SB early players or later players, but I do know that the later players have seemingly struggled to recreate success in any other game. 

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As someone that's been reading up on as much shadowbane as possible r30s seems to be the guild that really dominated above all others during the time that they played. 

 

It was really interesting with the hunger article that Artcraft released today mentioning what they learned about beta and the wipe processes and how cool that dynamic was.  I think artcraft also understands when shadowbane was good and when it had dried up.

 

I think it is really irrational to expect dominant guilds to come back to games that are dead or dying to prove they are still the best.  You can not logically expect the level of competition to be higher when a game has less people playing, than when it has more people playing.  This holds true for every game that has some sort of competitive environment.  Because you can not expect this, you can not expect the greats to be attracted to coming back to a game that has minimal competition. 

 

That being said, there are many cases where guilds have done well in a game early on, and then quit after getting their buttwhooped and claiming the game just wasn't good enough for them, but I'll be honest, I see this most from SB loyalists more than any other pvp gaming community. 

 

I don't know who was better in SB early players or later players, but I do know that the later players have seemingly struggled to recreate success in any other game. 

 

QFT

 

...and cupcakes, we all like them.


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The game at release vs. the game a year later is like comparing the enjoyment of eating an apple blossom vs. an apple.

 

Folks that declared victory after 6 weeks and quit, like the rolling30's did, didn't dominate much of anything. At that time, most non-beta players were just getting close to the level cap with average gear. The first major siege on Shadowbane's longest lasting server was the last weekend of April, so saying you couldn't find competition six weeks in, therefore you were better than everyone else, is ludicrous.

 

You also have to remember that beta guild had 1-2 years in game. The ones you're making fun of had four to eight times that experience, or more.


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That is entirely unsubstantiated, there were no "headstarts" or "Leg-ups"  The game had duping bugs to be certain, but only certain people were using them at the time, NA guilds do not operate the same as the Asian Guilds, it's that community which came in at the end of Shadowbanes life cycle and in MY opinion made the game a endless series of alliances, where one asian guild was eventually allied to all the other asian guilds.  NA alliances rarely get bigger then three clans, and many of those "Empires" were self made, forged out of many a bane, and a lot of fighting by highly skilled groups, not 1v1 honor duels or weird pan-continental alliance factories that spit out zerg after zerg, hells if I was forming a clan I'd take NA Operators over an Asian Gamer any day and twice on Sundays, the Asian gamer being a great farmer/lvl grinder

 

Not sure where you got your weird tasting kool aid about honor duels and Asian alliances banding together. They didn't band together. They stagnated Shadowbane so bad that the Chinese version of shadowbane had to close its doors due to the chinese holding hands at all times. They landed on US servers not even knowing how to PvP losing 30 vs 120 (them) engagements they were so horrible.

 

You're telling me that no beta guild in shadowbane ever had a leg up? "unsubstantiated" so, you're not calling me a liar. You're finding some prick way of saying "prove it" got ya.

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I actually did read the whole thing after. The catch on this is that I did in fact read that first part because it is before the other in the post.

 

I guess I'll simplify what I said a bit. A lot of characters could be effective maxing 2 stats but it was not the BEST way to build them in many cases.

 

 

In other news, I agree with some of the other points. That was just the one I wanted to comment on because it was an oversimplification of the system that a lot of people made but really was only the case because people were too lazy, just didn't care, or were not that great at building characters. A good example of this is meat characters. Most people just maxed con and str like crazy and neglected the **** out of intelligence. Or completely maxed con without regard to strength or the other way around. It was super inefficient on points and really took away from some of the potential they had.

 

Of course some of this was personal preference but that only goes so far.

 

 

Anyway, my post was way more jerkish than I meant it to be.

 

You're right that statement in the Cons is an over simplification and so I suppose being a little stingy there is understandable, but no offense taken :)

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