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karetyr

So, Tell Me About Shadowbane.

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The more I read about beta guilds and see them bragging about dominating their individual server, the more I despise them. I mean, I played on War when Death Head Legion (DHL) dominated the mainland. So, it's not like I didn't realize they existed. But to read about how they had no competition so they quit (which also a bad launch, broken promises, game launched too soon, etc had a lot to do with it), instead of fighting each other on live servers is ridiculous.

 

Meaning, they chose different servers at launch to not fight each other. Was there any server that didn't have a beta guild dominate it at launch? Only really know the history of War and vaguely a few others. It would've been great to play on a server where everyone started out with near equal knowledge and see how that server developed. Was that Mourning?

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The main problem was the Beta guilds had been fighting each other for almost a year in Beta and wanted fresh blood on new servers.

 

We didn't get it, lots got bored, many quit.

 

We admittedly played the game in an unsustainable way. The NA equivalent of the CN zerg. What is so irritating about them. We did it. It doesn't work. It stagnates servers. They want it that way.


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"Agelmar is King of the Hypocrites and Ruler of the Kingdom of Hypocrytia"

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The more I read about beta guilds and see them bragging about dominating their individual server, the more I despise them. I mean, I played on War when Death Head Legion (DHL) dominated the mainland. So, it's not like I didn't realize they existed. But to read about how they had no competition so they quit (which also a bad launch, broken promises, game launched too soon, etc had a lot to do with it), instead of fighting each other on live servers is ridiculous.

 

Meaning, they chose different servers at launch to not fight each other. Was there any server that didn't have a beta guild dominate it at launch? Only really know the history of War and vaguely a few others. It would've been great to play on a server where everyone started out with near equal knowledge and see how that server developed. Was that Mourning?

 

I actually had a toon in DHL; Spjorn Skullcleaver. And unfortunately that was a problem quickly on for that server. DHL dominated it early and, after a bit, pretty much owned that world. I also played on Mourning (with a few toons) and it had a better sampling of guilds and never really got into the same state. One of the reasons it'll be interested to see how the campaigns work out in CF... it is akin to a server reset or server up for SB.


Sean aka Ashen Temper | http://www.seandahlberg.com/

Without the Player, there is no Game!

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I don't remember Shadowbane hardly at all, other than vague recollections of marketing.

 

What was it like? Why is everyone so keen on it?

 

As you can see from this thread, it was an epeen measuring contest.  The battles were just for show.  The game hooked many because of the political drama that could be started on a regular basis of Us -VS- Them and all the ensuing tears.  Many guilds quit after complaining about no competition, yet not a one attempted to move servers and start over (like it's that hard) to find it.

 

Personally, I like it because it's the only game that did unique classes well without boiling them down into Tanky DPS, Nukey DPS, and Supporty DPS.

 

 

Shadowbane:

 

8d0f5fbc2beba410374aaec4181b08cf.gif

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The more I read about beta guilds and see them bragging about dominating their individual server, the more I despise them. I mean, I played on War when Death Head Legion (DHL) dominated the mainland. So, it's not like I didn't realize they existed. But to read about how they had no competition so they quit (which also a bad launch, broken promises, game launched too soon, etc had a lot to do with it), instead of fighting each other on live servers is ridiculous.

 

I agree with the sentiment, at least to a certain degree. Shadowbane had this Darwinian aspect to it, causing the game to become more and more competitive as time went on. On the original servers, only a fraction of the player base organized themselves with a voice communication server. Spec groups arguably existed (as in you would see centaur groups, mino groups, etc), but not nearly at the same level as they existed on the later servers. By about 2005 if not earlier (early 2004 if we're talking Vengeance), every guild had to use voice comm in order to be competitive - even the fodder guilds. Within a couple years after that (or less), even the least competitive guilds used spec groups.

 

Accordingly, it was much more of an accomplishment to dominate a later server than a release server, even with the relatively lower server populations. The beta guilds had it easy; they had a relatively long period of time to condition themselves and learn the game mechanics, then unleashed themselves onto hordes of clueless newbies. Some of them took their victories and ran, disappearing before the second generation of servers arrived (Vengeance, Corruption, et cetera). Also, on the release servers, multi-boxing was only done by a relatively small amount of players. After only a few months into Vengeance's life, however, multi-boxing became a necessity for the hardcore player. Today, on the emulators, some of the most elite players will box support characters and play them simultaneously at a very high level. We really have no idea how some of the legendary release server players would have fared under these conditions.

 

A nation like Covenant of Swords extirpated all of their competition on Treachery. On Vengeance, CoS surely would have been a powerful nation, but would not have been able to dominate the server without a political coalition of several different large nations. A nation that could field 6-7 groups (or more), all coordinated on TeamSpeak or Ventrilo, was an average regional power on Vengeance. My own nation could field about 6.5 groups or so for sieges, had no problem fighting any other nation NvN, and got swarmed by two separate coalitions operating in tandem because we decided we no longer wanted to play the political game. I remember the short-lived Northern Federation could field well over 120, and perhaps even EB, KGB and PKI could have done the same at their peaks, but none of these nations could have dominated the server on their own. After all of the migrations, Vengeance was getting like 1200-1400 players online. Large banes would often cause server outages. It was insane.


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Scourge of the Shadowbane community, Public Enemy No. 1 to the SBEMU Forum Moderators, and member of the "Suppressed Person" faction on the Ubiforums. The man responsible for hooking up Ceska and CheckYoTrack. Also a 21-time World Heavyweight Champion of Shadowbane.

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Yeah, I understand they were tired of fighting each other. I don't see how they thought dominating players years behind in knowledge leading to a stagnation was Play to Crush. Sure, you've got Play to Crush on the one hand and server/game health on the other. Other than Mourning, game/server health took a back seat for a few years. Hindsight is 20/20 and all.

 

Like agelmar said, it will be interesting to see how campaigns fair with the server up advantage of veteran guilds. Could be beta guilds dominating every campaign for a while. At least stagnation has been ruled out.

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As you can see from this thread, it was an epeen measuring contest.  The battles were just for show.  The game hooked many because of the political drama that could be started on a regular basis of Us -VS- Them and all the ensuing tears.  Many guilds quit after complaining about no competition, yet not a one attempted to move servers and start over (like it's that hard) to find it.

 

Personally, I like it because it's the only game that did unique classes well without boiling them down into Tanky DPS, Nukey DPS, and Supporty DPS.

 

 

Shadowbane:

 

Well it was the only game in the internet in which you could back up your epeen by dropping it on a city, destroying it, and instantly causing shrinkage on the other side.

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I honestly think SB players will have a huge advantage just based on character creation and discipline system being pretty identical.

Understanding of this and how to run spec groups = advantage.


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"Agelmar is King of the Hypocrites and Ruler of the Kingdom of Hypocrytia"

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Like last time beta players will have a bigger advantage than even old SB players.  The extra 12-14 years since SB we'll be carrying won't exactly help either.

 

It may actually be that the advantage will be minimal.  Shadowbane is SO OLD that anyone who played it is an adult now.  Assuming you didn't start when you were 12, the current playerbase is in its 30s.  This is NOT Shadowbane where tab-targeted macro warfare and multi-boxing leads to some kind of advantage.  It's an action MMO that appears rather similar to Darkfall, Tera, or Guild Wars 2 in its free range targeting ability.

 

Youngsters have a natural twitch advantage here.  It's true that older and wiser experienced players can support stronger builds, but this can potentially be offset by a kid's natural mental agility.  You rarely see older gamers doing well in areas like MOBAs or even a theme park's battlegrounds/arenas.  Being able to instantly respond to enemy actions in a fraction of a second leads to strong interrupt and repositioning skills too.  There were some guys in Darkfall that seemed to never miss a shot, yet if you check their channels they clearly weren't aimbotting -- and they were in their early 20s.  Even without a strong build, simply using the tools at your disposal with proper twitch skill application may be enough to level the advantage smarter players have.  God forbid you come across a guy who has both.

 

Campaigns I think will diminish the effect of beta too.  Plus once the bigger guilds dominate the first campaign, they'll quit the game prematurely as "undefeated" exactly like Titan Alliance did to GW2.  They'll claim there's no competition and the game is boring, then skedaddle before the campaigns reset without waiting for the non-betas to catch up.

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It may actually be that the advantage will be minimal.  Shadowbane is SO OLD that anyone who played it is an adult now.  Assuming you didn't start when you were 12, the current playerbase is in its 30s.  This is NOT Shadowbane where tab-targeted macro warfare and multi-boxing leads to some kind of advantage.  It's an action MMO that appears rather similar to Darkfall, Tera, or Guild Wars 2 in its free range targeting ability.

 

Youngsters have a natural twitch advantage here.  It's true that older and wiser experienced players can support stronger builds, but this can potentially be offset by a kid's natural mental agility.  You rarely see older gamers doing well in areas like MOBAs or even a theme park's battlegrounds/arenas.  Being able to instantly respond to enemy actions in a fraction of a second leads to strong interrupt and repositioning skills too.  There were some guys in Darkfall that seemed to never miss a shot, yet if you check their channels they clearly weren't aimbotting -- and they were in their early 20s.  Even without a strong build, simply using the tools at your disposal with proper twitch skill application may be enough to level the advantage smarter players have.  God forbid you come across a guy who has both.

 

Campaigns I think will diminish the effect of beta too.  Plus once the bigger guilds dominate the first campaign, they'll quit the game prematurely as "undefeated" exactly like Titan Alliance did to GW2.  They'll claim there's no competition and the game is boring, then skedaddle before the campaigns reset without waiting for the non-betas to catch up.

Nice post

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Skill≠strategy.  I hope that the CF folks recognize that strategy and creativity needs to far outweigh the "skill" portion of their pvp.

 

Yes, let's hope that.  I'd hate to see another disaster strike like with Black Desert Online.  That game promised almost all the things Crowfall was going to have.  Then backpedaled on every single point.  Crowfall may seem like divine intervention currently, but oh how quickly that can change.

 

Full story: http://black-desert.com/articles/black-desert-how-we-were-expect-it-to-be-and-how-it-is-now/

 

How a game goes from a full loot, no tab-targeting skill-based political sandbox with dangerous enemies, open world boss fights, and pvp from level 1 to a gonzo appeasing anti-pvp level 50+ required zero death penalty no-loot character creation theme park that rewards players for suiciding with no meaningful open world content, a lightning fast leveling system (under a week), and an emphasis on potion chugging even in PVE is beyond my ability to comprehend the bottomless abyss of human stupidity.

Edited by Kyutaru

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All skills should matter - political skill, targeting, movement, group composition, template building skills, trade skills, etc.

Bo fighting skills, computer hacking skills...


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"Agelmar is King of the Hypocrites and Ruler of the Kingdom of Hypocrytia"

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A lot of the beta guilds .........    They played through beta and got the hook up (what was it, free r7 trainer city or something?) at launch in addition to a head start on everything. Whether through boredom, frustration, or players catching up in knowledge -- all the beta guilds were destroyed. I started 

 

 

Headlight...    My guild has a dubious honor.  My city was the first wiped in live.   We were a guild that had formed in the beta.     We were well known at the time.   We received nothing special for our city, for our beta participation.  Hell, I was FURIOUS at the time with Wolfpack because they made it so that my guild/city could not physically defend ourselves from the banehammer that smashed into us.   We fought for everything we had and we lost everything.        There were no free R7 trainers for Redemption.    If there had been - perhaps, just perhaps, the outcome would have been different.

 

I don't know where you got your information from, but that particular piece of it, is wrong.

Edited by Kirel

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