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Helix

Critical hits need a change.

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ACE combat right now has it so easy to land abilities that aiming isn't really too much of an element. 

 

Also there will always be rng involved in gaming, inside and outside of the game. 


Skeggold, Skalmold, Skildir ro Klofnir

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First idea was a bit yes and a bit no. But I like it as it is expanded by discussion. Helix gave an example of making critics being landed from flank or when the target is on the ground. It is very logical as you are certainly disadvantaged as you lie on the ground. As your back is unsecured and somebody attacks you on the back.

 

I support landing critical hits in logical circumstances to any random mechanism behind it.

 

This would likely be a revolution in the critical hits history. But it is worth trying. If the game is supposed to be about skills, we can afford to remove critical hits and ultimate abilities either. Also, flanking may become a thing. And perhaps, armorsmithing may become more interesting too. You will be able to put on more plates on the back or so.

 

Critical hits randomness is possible to reduce greatly and replace it with reality following mechanism. And specific abilities may give you a capability to land one, or prolonged combat may learn you about your opponent's weaknesses. Random mechanism will not. Neither will stunning all defenders with an ultimate ability, which is not much about skill.


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Just curious, but why?

 

Battles are filled with random, this isn't a MOBA, and team sizes are not going to be even in all but arranged fights anyway.

 

Why take away the sheer joy of natural 20 crit?  Sure you hate being on the other side, but I think the joy and pleasure of getting one out weights the negative of being on the receiving end.

 

Psychologically I think they are good for the game.

 

It introduces an element of uncertainty and confusion; something that is partly (mostly) out of your control. I won fights on the back of critical hits, and I don't think it's something I want the game to decide. I want to win fights because I land my attacks correctly, out maneuvered my opponent, applied a strategy, etc. I don't want to win fights on the back of luck, not in an aim based game, and not in a game where I'm risking my gear (vessel, items, disciplines, etc).

 

Basically I don't want the game deciding random $h!t for me in the middle of combat, just like I don't want the game deciding random $h!t for me while I'm crafting (a totally different subject, but some what connected).

 

I think transparency is really important. Understanding what's happening to you, how you killed someone, how they killed you, etc. RNG muddies the water way too much.

 

I'd rather get killed from a critical hit because "Johnson flanked me and stabbed me in the back", or "Johnson dazed me / staggered me / knock me down and executed a critical attack" instead of "Johnson got lucky".

 

Even more so;  conditional and positional based critical hits would increase combat depth. Instead of the shallow circle strafing jerk fest we have now, imagine conditioning your opponent to follow you to the right only to double dodge "juke" to the left, circle around and score a critical hit on his rear.

 

Stuff like this would make combat 100x more interesting IMO and be way more exciting.

 

 

 

Also there will always be rng involved in gaming, inside and outside of the game.

 

Except it doesn't need to be. Unless of course you're talking about internal mechanics that we never really get to see.

Edited by helix

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There's two components to this, critical hit chance and critical hit damage.

 

Critical Hit Chance

EDIT: Misread first post. I LOVE the idea of critical hits being something that's triggered by back hits or if someone is dizzy downed, knocked down, etc. Taking some of the randomness out without removing it all together. 

 

The other idea is to get a critical hit if you string consecutive hits on the same target. If you hit someone 5 times in a row without missing and without changing targets the 5th hit is a crit.

 

Make critical hits more of a skill thing than a random % chance based on your passive skill training and gear. Skill training/gear would still be a factor but would require some player skill to CC targets and/or get back hits in order to crit. 

 

Critical Hit Damage

The amount of critical hit damage skills is astounding. Yes, it'll take a while to get them all, but my Myrmidon already has over 200% critical hit damage. 

 

IMO, critical hits should NOT EXCEED 200%. You may need to add a counter critical hit damage stat, kinda like "resilience" in World of Craft that lowers incoming crit hit chance and damage.

 

Maybe you start off critical hits at 125% instead of 150% and with fully trained skills you can get up to 200%. Right now you could get up to at least 250% damage (maybe higher, haven't counted) and that's just too high.  

 

Crit damage is going to get out of control as players progress without some kind of changes to it. Yes, the skill trees aren't final. That's why we bring this up now before it becomes a problem.  

Edited by blazzen

Blazzen <Lords of Death>

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There's two components to this, critical hit chance and critical hit damage.

 

Critical Hit Chance

EDIT: Misread first post. I LOVE the idea of critical hits being something that's triggered by back hits or if someone is dizzy downed, knocked down, etc. Taking some of the randomness out without removing it all together. 

 

The other idea is to get a critical hit if you string consecutive hits on the same target. If you hit someone 5 times in a row without missing and without changing targets the 5th hit is a crit.

 

Make critical hits more of a skill thing than a random % chance based on your passive skill training and gear. Skill training/gear would still be a factor but would require some player skill to CC targets and/or get back hits in order to crit. 

 

 

 

I like this idea too. It might need to be refined (landing consecutive attacks is actually pretty easy atm, especially when you're a melee), but the concept is good.

 

Maybe tighten up the hit counter so the attacks would have to be 1-2s apart and anything greater would reset the counter? Leave it to the devs to figure out, I guess.

Edited by helix

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I like this idea too. It might need to be refined (landing consecutive attacks is actually pretty easy atm, especially when you're a melee), but the concept is good.

 

Maybe tighten up the hit counter so the attacks would have to be 1-2s apart and anything greater would reset the counter? Leave it to the devs to figure out, I guess.

 

Combo simply replacing crits could work.

 

Switch the % chance of crit with % combo damage increase.

Switch the damage numbers to damage cap.

 

So you would get a cumulative % bonus increase until you hit the cap, or missed a shot/swing.

 

E.G. with a 5% increase 50% cap, your swings in a row would be 5-10-15-20-25-30-35-40-45-50....

 

That's pretty punishing for players just going toe to toe, and would open up a defensive line for tanks of combo mitigation so if it was 2%, the above series would change to.

 

3-6-9-12-15......50.

 

That would even FEEL better than random crits, if you got your combo up in numbers, it would just get better for you, and worse for them, and have a built in punishment for being CC'd.

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Two combatants. Johnson and Jake

It's "Jjohnsin" with 2 J's and an I.

 

But actually it's just that crits need to be tuned down and I'll be fine with it. Crit chance/dmg stacking is gonna be too crazy without tuning. Although I agree with Destrin I'd rather not have crits all together.

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This is something i am also concerned about and hope the devs reconsider.  I just dont like the idea with so much to lose from full looting, to have combat being decided by randomness.  Seems borderline ragequit worthy with some of the numbers being posted as possibilities  (3x crits, etc).  .

 

I would prefer crits be deterministic by some kind of combat state as many others have stated.  Or have the ttk be so long that a single lucky crit is not going to decide the battle. 

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A PvP crit damage cap sounds good. Anything beyond that training wise would be ok for farming mobs. Or would allow you to restructure gear. Tera had something similar. I feel like it was around 7.2(normal DMG) for pve and something considerably lower for pvp. Also, you could have different caps and stats for front/back/(side) attacks/crits.

 

I'm also in favor of one shots.

Edited by Sciocco

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the problem not in crits. critical hits is ok for most games (I agree, this stat is meta for pvp players as well as critical hit damage)

the problem is big difference in min-max damage which are even worse if you craft weapon with full maximum damage stat

the second problem is a low HP overall compared to already produced by players dmg burst (especially with focus fire)

 

if criticall hits damage get nerfed to flat amount - you can be sure, this stat isnt meta anymore, welcome new stat - attack power, min-max damage etc.

 

also good solution to fix pvp damage is armor. they can do stats on it:

  • reduce chance to get critically hit (mail armor)
  • reduce critically hit damage (heavy armor)
  • increase pvp defence
  • reduce maximum damage (analog to D&D redaction stat which converting % of incoming brutal hits to scratchs)

I think overall all those oneshots problems should get balanced by armor coz it is still useless

Edited by makkon

crowfall pvp makkonMyrmidon statement: Out of Fury

Discord makkon#8550

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Some people want to watch the world burn...

 

It's exciting to be out in the battlefield knowing one little custard up could be the end.

Edited by Sciocco

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