Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...

Thoughts on the need for a crafting alt?


KohrAh
 Share

Recommended Posts

By the current trees and the time it takes to skill up it seems like someone wants to be heavily involved in both combat and crafting may need to get a second account as to train these separately; else they risk being seriously disadvantaged in either.  Any thoughts on the accuracy of this?

 

I'm not opposed to the idea of having a second account, and there being a benefit to it.  But if we run into a situation where you NEED a second account to do both and be viable, where trying to balance them on a single account simply isn't viable, that's a bit concerning to me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Most people i have spoke with that want to be competitive look at having somewhere between 3-4 accounts each.

 

Its not that there wont be a single necromancer that focuses on it and contribute to the guild, its that having 30 people with multiple overlapping of training so you are always guaranteed to have the needed crafter OR harvester is the advantage. With 30 people and effectively having 90-120 accounts is the most efficient way to do things, you dont need to supply 90-120 people, but you have the 'on paper' capability of 90-120 people. Obviously in actual combat its different, but in every other aspect, its the same.

 

Because if we are being realistic, a single person is rarely going to be available 24/7. Even being available more than 5 hours a day is more than likely be remote. 

 

The passive training supports this multi-account  strat. You dont have to put any effort what so ever in to maintaining these other accounts. Just check their training with alarms.

 

Building these dependencies in to crafting and harvesting but setting up a passive training system just punishes any casual players that cant afford buying a ton of account.

 

We will see if ACE decide to address this issue, or if they even think its a issue. Still in pre-alpha, dont buy all those accounts just yet.

Edited by Vectious

CfWBSig.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well the real question is IMO, is it fair and balanced for the game if players can be "viable" in both combat and crafting on a single account at the same time. I mean seems like if the Dev wants a player run economy that relies on interdependencies then the more they allow a single account to do the more that takes away from that.

 

Would much rather have a system where you have to rely on others even if it makes sense to have multi accounts, than a system where everyone can pretty much be self sufficient, in an MMO.  

 

BTW, this "issue" has very little to do with the passive system. In SWG with an active skill system people still used multi accounts for combat and crafting and other professions. You couldn't do everything or even multiple things at the same time on the same account then, so not sure why we should be able to now. So no the passive system doesn't make multi accounts a better choice itself, its more a overall product of any type of skill based system, active or passive. So nothing I can do to stop it but lets not (even though its a 100% chance it will) turn yet another thread into a "how to fix/revamp/rework/why the skill system sux!" thread.

Edited by pang
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I plan on having 2-3 accounts but that is just to help supply the guild that I will be in eventually. 1 will be my main pvp account and the other 2 will be whatever gathers the guild needs. Personally I think that if your a solo account with a straight pvp account then if you have the player skill you will be fed gear. My choice is that i'm going back to college and have the "free time" to help support a "guild", to me that means I have more time on my hands to play video games so I can feed more materials to help gear those that aren't so fortunate.

 

 I think people that have 2-4 accounts will have a edge at the start but eventually the good guilds will have at least 2 of your accounts covered. I guess to say the truth in my opinion that if it fits your play style to have multiple accounts then do it but don't feel bad or think you will be left out if you only have one account.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

BTW, this "issue" has very little to do with the passive system. In SWG with an active skill system people still used multi accounts for combat and crafting and other professions. You couldn't do everything or even multiple things at the same time on the same account then, so not sure why we should be able to now. So no the passive system doesn't make multi accounts a better choice itself, its more a overall product of any type of skill based system, active or passive. So nothing I can do to stop it but lets not (even though its a 100% chance it will) turn yet another thread into a "how to fix/revamp/rework/why the skill system sux!" thread.

Maybe not a 'better' choice. Perhaps a much easier choice.

 

In other games you had to put in the work and effort to get that type of advantage.

 

All you need in this instance, supported by a passive skill tree is just money.

 

 

So the 'issue' is that passive skill tree takes away the effort required to gain this advantage, which should make it more prevalent. 

 

I agree that passive skill tree doesnt create this advantage, it exists in almost every game with dependencies, it just makes it brain numbingly easy to gain.

Edited by Vectious

CfWBSig.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well the real question is IMO, is it fair and balanced for the game if players can be "viable" in both combat and crafting on a single account at the same time. I mean seems like if the Dev wants a player run economy that relies on interdependencies then the more they allow a single account to do the more that takes away from that.

 

I could see an argument for some level of proficiency in both being a viable option to chose.  Perhaps a situation where someone doesn't want any leadership skills, prefers to play only casters, and would like to craft some basic resources to help the guild out.  Such a person isn't going to be crafting purple vessels, but they could participate in crafting while still being viable in group combat on a single account.  I feel like such a thing could be viable with acceptable trade offs.

 

I personally would probably opt for 2 accounts at that point, but a lot of people would prefer to have a single account and have some option for both sides of things.

 

Another factor is what the VIP benefits end up being pinned down to.  While I personally wouldn't have an issue having two accounts, feeling the need to have more than one with VIP status would be further than I would want to go.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pretty stupid honestly that so many accounts are needed, it is honestly a very bad system. Clearly, things are frakked when you NEED multiple accounts to be competitive. Not even 2 accounts are enough with the current system. I can't play a competitive Templar and a DPS on the same account if I'm going to have proper roles on each, and then I still need a crafter account which I cant even level up multiple types, I have to focus so even need multiple crafting accounts as well. With the current state, you are either in a zerg guild or a smaller guild with many accounts per person to be competitive and viable. Sure skill matters but so do stats.

 

Oh, and don't make me bring up VIP as well. This all has to change honestly, such a turn off for many currently outside the game.

Edited by krevra

I don't want to kill more rats, fill another experience point bar or collect another meaningless badge. I want to play a GAME against PLAYERS, where my actions, my decisions and my SKILL will determine if I win or lose. Allies. Enemies. Alliances. Betrayal. risk. Conquest. To compete with THOUSANDS of other players for a chance to claim the THRONE. Even if i lose, the experience won't feel hollow. I don't want another worthless trophy.

PLAY TO CRUSH

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe not a 'better' choice. Perhaps a much easier choice.

 

In other games you had to put in the work and effort to get that type of advantage.

 

All you need in this instance, supported by a passive skill tree is just money.

 

 

So the 'issue' is that passive skill tree takes away the effort required to gain this advantage, which should make it more prevalent. 

 

I agree that passive skill tree doesnt create this advantage, it exists in almost every game with dependencies, it just makes it brain numbingly easy to gain.

Well in SWG you could macro everything so no not much effort, just time. In fact with macroing most if not all the active skills could be automated and basically turned into a passive system. Bottom line doesn't matter how the skills are gained as much as the fact that at some point you have to actually play it and do whatever is required to fulfill that roll. You can't passively gain contacts and resources and word of mouth and work the player run economy, all that takes real-time "effort" as well.

Edited by pang
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pretty stupid honestly that so many accounts are needed, it is honestly a very bad system. Clearly, things are frakked when you NEED multiple accounts to be competitive. Not even 2 accounts are enough with the current system. I can't play a competitive Templar and a DPS on the same account if I'm going to have proper roles on each, and then I still need a crafter account which I cant even level up multiple types, I have to focus so even need multiple crafting accounts as well. With the current state, you are either in a zerg guild or a smaller guild with many accounts per person to be competitive and viable. Sure skill matters but so do stats.

 

Oh, and don't make me bring up VIP as well. This all has to change honestly, such a turn off for many currently outside the game.

I am not going to pick on your way of thinking because I was like this at one point as well years ago. I am used to playing multiple accounts in many games and everything was based on what was needed for a raid or siege or what have you. to me you playing a templar role and a dps role would in my opinion that would be two accounts, eventually you will be able to use both on one account but your right to min max current stats you need to have the two accounts minimum.

 

if you want to be competative at any game you need to spend money and time on every aspect and if your going to want to focus your time on 2 seperate classes then you will be a leg down from the guy that was focusing on templar or the person that focused straight dps  in player skill. if you have the time and money to pursue being the best at both then thats perfect do it but min maxing will have to be done on 2 different accounts unless you wanna wait until you get all skills on the one account. VIP system BTW I love it aswell you gotta get some perks and that is an amazing perk that I will always have.!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's going to be a cluster-custard of alt accounts.

 

I have my popcorn ready to see what ACE does in response.

 

When some players try and bring in half a dozen or more (one guy in our guild has 25 accounts ...) into a CW with a server cap things will get interesting fast.

 

It would be really short-sighted not to use a subscription VIP model that would avoid that result.

Edited by coolwaters
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am not going to pick on your way of thinking because I was like this at one point as well years ago. I am used to playing multiple accounts in many games and everything was based on what was needed for a raid or siege or what have you. to me you playing a templar role and a dps role would in my opinion that would be two accounts, eventually you will be able to use both on one account but your right to min max current stats you need to have the two accounts minimum.

 

if you want to be competative at any game you need to spend money and time on every aspect and if your going to want to focus your time on 2 seperate classes then you will be a leg down from the guy that was focusing on templar or the person that focused straight dps  in player skill. if you have the time and money to pursue being the best at both then thats perfect do it but min maxing will have to be done on 2 different accounts unless you wanna wait until you get all skills on the one account. VIP system BTW I love it aswell you gotta get some perks and that is an amazing perk that I will always have.!

I see both sides to this argument, and I feel there needs to be somewhat of a balance.  It's a bit unreasonable to say if you're mainly a confessor, and you also want to play myrmidons, that you should need a second account.  I think the main area of contention is the crow skills and not the archtype skills, as when you level up different characters in say Shadowbane you needed to put time into each.

 

Along with what has been previously discussed about viability, the CF system being more like Eve's system necessitates that characters with lower skills are going to have some level of viability.  As in Eve a 3 month old account needs to be able to contribute to battles with accounts that are years old.

 

I'm sure most of the people on these forums are well aware that a PVP-centric MMO requires maintaining a certain level of server populations.  I wouldn't want to see a mass of players playing for a short time, feeling the need to get a second account, and then dropping out because they don't like the idea of such.  I know that the campaign worlds will help mitigate the server population issue, but no reason to make it a bigger issue than it needs to be.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The issue also becomes that if i wanted to play a confessor and a myrm and train combat for them, it would be extremely inefficient to do it on one account. The training gets split from melee and range way early. I could do it, i would just handicap myself along the way, eventually it wouldn't matter, 3-4 years down the line at least.

 

So sure with VIP i could train three archetypes, just depending on my combat training i would only really get the most benefit out of 1-2 of them.

 

You could group like same archetypes on multiple VIP accounts, and that will more than likely be the thing to do. Like Mym/Knight/Duelist all benefit from melee and then also 1hander training(which gets split away from 2 hander immediately after ranged/melee). And then just try and only use swords on all of them.

 

But then theres the duelist..and his gun...which is sorta ranged? 

 

Just feels like there is a disconnect between the archetype design and the skill tree design. Good ideas made it in to the game with out the "hold on does it fit with the rest of our game?" and now there may have to be backtracking.

 

Another great example of this is the scattering of resource pool types that seemed to be thrown in more of a haphazard way.

 

But i mean, its pre-alpha all this stuff should feel janky all the way in to beta, i would imagine. 

CfWBSig.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am not going to pick on your way of thinking because I was like this at one point as well years ago. I am used to playing multiple accounts in many games and everything was based on what was needed for a raid or siege or what have you. to me you playing a templar role and a dps role would in my opinion that would be two accounts, eventually you will be able to use both on one account but your right to min max current stats you need to have the two accounts minimum.

 

if you want to be competative at any game you need to spend money and time on every aspect and if your going to want to focus your time on 2 seperate classes then you will be a leg down from the guy that was focusing on templar or the person that focused straight dps  in player skill. if you have the time and money to pursue being the best at both then thats perfect do it but min maxing will have to be done on 2 different accounts unless you wanna wait until you get all skills on the one account. VIP system BTW I love it aswell you gotta get some perks and that is an amazing perk that I will always have.!

Good points IMO.

 

Honestly not sure how many of those players (feels need to be best or competitive at multiple roles at same time)  there are versus those who just focus on one thing, one AT. Its not even really about that anyway, its more about what's best for the particular game.  But yeah agree if one wants to be "competitive" in multiple areas of focus its going to take more time, more effort and more often than not more money.

 

To clarify though that poster might need multiple accounts to be competitive in the multiple areas he wants to focus. but for others who are just happy to pick a single role to focus on and only that single role at one time, a single account will suffice. So saying "You need multiple accounts to be competitive" is vague and isn't at all accurate. You only really need multiple accounts if you need to focus and be "competitive" on multiple roles at the same time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When some players try and bring in half a dozen or more (one guy in our guild has 25 accounts ...) into a CW with a server cap things will get interesting fast.

 

why stop there? why not bring in alt accounts to the opposing side. guilds could use the alt accounts to spy and limit the actual numbers of enemy forces. seems like an easy way to win those "epic" CWs.

 

/thumbs_up

Link to comment
Share on other sites

why stop there? why not bring in alt accounts to the opposing side. guilds could use the alt accounts to spy and limit the actual numbers of enemy forces. seems like an easy way to win those "epic" CWs.

 

/thumbs_up

Good point. You could abuse any kind of server cap.

 

Although if the cap was like 10k, it may not be THAT big of a dent.

CfWBSig.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Vectious - would depend on what kind of dents. given destructible environments, what if you can deal damage to your faction structures? or what if you're able to alter your faction's strongholds? 1 person wandering around and knocking down doors, making holes in walls, moving walls/doors, moving stockpiles of crafting materials (should there be a storage), relaying enemy locations/numbers, and/or generally grief-ing could having a major impact on a CW.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I mean, someone who decides to go crafting or harvesting won't be seriously disadvantaged at all though (and the way crafting and stats are...Someone who is a combat spec and someone who is a crafting spec will be on a relatively even playing field with personal skill more than likely being the biggest factor). The combat tree stat gains are minimal and take pretty long to get through them. Imo, the combat tree is there right now for people who have no interest in harvesting or crafting.

 

But yah, if you want to be more so self-sufficient then go for multiple accounts. It's really not going to be as big an issue as people think, at least in my opinion. But tbh I don't care much for or against having multiple accounts. It's just not true that by going crafting/harvesting you will be severely disadvantaged in combat.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Was thinking about this some more.  Eve with a similar passive training system does more to reduce the need for an alt account than the current CF system does.  In Eve where the ships your flying are the equivalent to classes, you can train 9 month to fly certain types of ships, and then decide to focus on a different type of ship and you won't have to spend another 9 month training to catch up to where you were as a lot of those skills you're training carry over to all ships, and then further more will carry over to some ships.  It's because of all the overlap that the system where you can train for years on end works.  You never feel like you're mostly starting over, you're only making yourself even better and more versatile.

 

I don't think the CF system as it is now lends to those same upsides.  Just as the devs are aiming for VIP to not at all be mandatory, and to simply be convenience, I feel they should be aiming for second accounts to not at all feel mandatory; which is not the general vibe of what I'm seeing on the forums.  I've seen multiple people suggest that alts for crafting will be needed in most cases, but beyond that even suggest that alts for completely different archtypes is a good idea.  I'm really hoping the game systems get refined to where that is not the case.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good point. You could abuse any kind of server cap.

 

Although if the cap was like 10k, it may not be THAT big of a dent.

If they have as many campaigns as they stated then I would imagine the cap being far lower. They have stated that there will be campaigns opening and closing all the time so that players could join the campaign they want. I think such a system would be very hard to do in reality. If one campaign lasts for 3 months and another 6 months then who wants to join a campaign already half over? Or would someone have to wait 3 months to join a different rule typing? If campaigns last upwards of 6 months (I thought they stated this - could be mistaken) then you would need 6 servers per ruletype to be able to join a different campaign very month. Now if there are multiple rule types such as RvRvR, GvG, 12-Faction RvR, and FFA this means you would need 24 campaigns running at the same time (roughly equivalent to 24 servers) to offer a new campaign a month. If the 12-Faction RvR offers variation such as 6-Faction RvR then you are looking at even more of a dispersal of players. I could have mis-read to be failing to properly recall what was stated but in order to cap out at 10k the developers would need 240 thousand players for all 24 campaigns. Plus I see issues later in the games life where the player base takes a huge hit making campaigns have smaller and smaller amounts of people and/or less and less campaigns.

43WqLMM.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...