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So now that we have factions in the playtest, I have been taking a closer look at which gods and goddesses are aligned with what faction, and it occurs to me that it would seem to make more sense if Kane and Cybele were to switch places? Kane fitting more into the Order faction, and Cybele more into Chaos.

 

Am I wrong here or do you think this makes sense?

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I don't think it fits with the Kane/Arkon hatred to have them on the same side. I think Kane is on Chaos not because he wants chaos, but because his actions have unwillingly brought chaos (leading to the death of Gaea, betraying Arkon, killing D'Orion the Skyhunter). 

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You have to keep in mind in Crowfall the whole Order-Balance-Chaos trinity doesn't carry the same exact connotation as in other fantasy worlds. In Crowfall faction allegiance has more to do with how each side views the Hunger and intends to deal with it. Chaos's plan is to sacrifice some worlds to the Hunger in order to appease it and keep it at bay, they don't think it can be completely destroyed. Order on the other hand has no desire for any compromise and fights to protect every world against the Hunger (despite apparently having no clue how to eradicate the Hunger), and Balance is basically just trying to keep both forces in check to prevent one from completely dominating (Balance also appears to be the weakest faction in theory, since two of their gods are dead). 

 

So it really makes no sense for Cybele to join Chaos, since her domains are life, spring and love. Kane I suppose could probably go either way, but his backstory is more morally ambiguous and grey, full of compromises and loss. So Chaos is a good fit. 

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I definitely think there is sufficient basis for Cybele to be under Chaos - young love is fickle, her appearance not being agreed upon, being mercurial, a creature of the moment, flighty, temperamental, never keeps promises etc...you are right that Kane can fit into either Chaos or Order, but I have to disgree regarding Cybele; there is no question there are very good reasons for her to fall under Chaos, and far less for her to be part of Order. Far more than Kane in my opinion.

 

You have to keep in mind in Crowfall the whole Order-Balance-Chaos trinity doesn't carry the same exact connotation as in other fantasy worlds. In Crowfall faction allegiance has more to do with how each side views the Hunger and intends to deal with it. Chaos's plan is to sacrifice some worlds to the Hunger in order to appease it and keep it at bay, they don't think it can be completely destroyed. Order on the other hand has no desire for any compromise and fights to protect every world against the Hunger (despite apparently having no clue how to eradicate the Hunger), and Balance is basically just trying to keep both forces in check to prevent one from completely dominating (Balance also appears to be the weakest faction in theory, since two of their gods are dead). 

 

So it really makes no sense for Cybele to join Chaos, since her domains are life, spring and love. Kane I suppose could probably go either way, but his backstory is more morally ambiguous and grey, full of compromises and loss. So Chaos is a good fit. 

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 it would seem to make more sense if Kane and Cybele were to switch places?

 

No, because

 

You have to keep in mind in Crowfall the whole Order-Balance-Chaos trinity doesn't carry the same exact connotation as in other fantasy worlds. In Crowfall faction allegiance has more to do with how each side views the Hunger and intends to deal with it.

 

That's exactely the point. Todd already stated so, so it's official. Don't misunderstand chaos for chaotic. Chaos is simply the name of the faction that supports the hunger, just like Rikutatis said.

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That's exactely the point. Todd already stated so, so it's official. Don't misunderstand chaos for chaotic. Chaos is simply the name of the faction that supports the hunger, just like Rikutatis said.

 

They don't "support" the hunger, they just kinda figure if you feed it enough it may get full.

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They don't "support" the hunger, they just kinda figure if you feed it enough it may get full.

 

Right. xD And Order don't fight the hunger, they just kinda figure if you don't feed it, it may die. :)

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The issue here is that it's less order vs chaos than it is preservation vs sacrifice. It's also why the angry warlike goddess everyone fears is order, as is the "god" who's entire existence is to repeatedly die in battle for all eternity. While Kane, who's in mourning and probably very "f it all" and the goddess of the very orderly element of death's inevitability are "chaos". It's more poor naming conventions than the factions themselves being grouped poorly. The names are terrible but the lore behind those two factions is great. Balance kind of confuses me since it's two very hands off gods and two dead ones but the example campaign objectives talked about not letting either other faction gain a major lead. while that's a cool game play idea they lore they made for it doesn't fit.

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On 19/03/2017 at 9:38 PM, Vonpenguin said:

The issue here is that it's less order vs chaos than it is preservation vs sacrifice. It's also why the angry warlike goddess everyone fears is order, as is the "god" who's entire existence is to repeatedly die in battle for all eternity. While Kane, who's in mourning and probably very "f it all" and the goddess of the very orderly element of death's inevitability are "chaos". It's more poor naming conventions than the factions themselves being grouped poorly. The names are terrible but the lore behind those two factions is great. Balance kind of confuses me since it's two very hands off gods and two dead ones but the example campaign objectives talked about not letting either other faction gain a major lead. while that's a cool game play idea they lore they made for it doesn't fit.

I agree, Balance is a bit of an oddball faction with two of its gods being dead. I could totally see Kronos pitting the other two factions against each other and helping them both in turn, so he can achieve his goals of balance. But Illara is another oddball who doesn't seem to care about what happens in this universe and seems to be more concerned with what's "beyond". However given her mysterious nature it is also totally feasible for her to just want to stall the other two factions as much as possible and keep one of them from winning just so she can continue to do her own thing unhindered. 

On a slightly different topic what really doesn't sit well with me is how some archetypes that are very linked to a specific god or faith end up fighting for the opposing faction. Like why would confessors and templars (assuming that was their original life) swear allegiance to Chaos, or why would Druids start following Kane. Sure you can come up with some quirky story to explain one particular case of how that could end up happening for that one person, but as a whole it just goes against the lore. I think devs should first come up with the gameplay design ideas for their game and only then write the lore that fits that gameplay design. Otherwise you end up with conflicting lore and gameplay, as seems to be the case here. You are turned into a crow by a specific god to fight for his cause, but in every CW you can choose a different god. You're a templar who follows the church of Arkon, but you can also fight for any other god if you want. Why even bother with lore? 

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Posted (edited)

I mean a Paladin is a knight for whatever their version of justice is... Even if that justice is considered by most to be evil or chaotic; and a Templar is damn near a paladin so as far as I'm concerned it makes sense to me. Druids also have the choice of following the death tree with their skills making them more attuned to chaos in that sense as well.  As for confessor, they are a fire mage, burn everything to the ground, or purify it with flames, I can totally see that one going both ways. Its really just a personal choice, in real life as an example so many people whose views line up more with hindu/buddo views are "born into the wrong religion" It could simply be something similar to that. Its who they become after their powers/skill sets were discovered that determine the path that they take with the gods of their choice. 

Edited by SoberSoul
Syntax Errors

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On 7.4.2017 at 5:12 PM, Rikutatis said:

On a slightly different topic what really doesn't sit well with me is how some archetypes that are very linked to a specific god or faith end up fighting for the opposing faction. Like why would confessors and templars (assuming that was their original life) swear allegiance to Chaos, or why would Druids start following Kane.

If they don't have been strongly disappointed by their gods or have been turned by an opposing force (or something similar live/death changing), they most likely wouldn't.

But you said it yourself: 'assuming that was their original life'. With all the vessel crafting and usage and with about a dozen different archetypes it is very unlikely that if you meet a confessor, it will be crow that has been a confessor in his original life.

I think it is important, that a system offers possibilities instead of limiting them. If someone wants to play confessor, but not for arkon, well, thats called the vessel system. If someone wants to be an original confessor, neither a problem, just fight for arkon and thats it. I don't see a problem with that.

 

Besides, a lot of the vye-for-the-dragon-throne thing is about alliances and divine tactics. It can make sense to go one step back to allow two steps forward. I can very well imagine gods to let some of their troops support the opposing faction, if it might be useful for them. Who can tell.

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The choice of the name of the both factions is confusing :

in the spirit of the BG, Chaos mean rather coruption and Order would rather close to purity ... If I understood correctly

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